The Vine: October 22, 2008
Hi there,
I’m having a bit of an etiquette issue. I’m friends with a number of people who are part of a larger circle that could possibly and has been often described as hipster. That’s fine. The problem with this group is that a lot of them don’t seem to recognize when individuals are invited to a party and not them.
They operate as a group, and trying to explain to my friends that just because I’ve invited them I haven’t invited the rest of the American Apparel wearing universe along with them.
Most of the people in this circle are fine, though not my favorites. However, there is one girl whom I dislike immensely. She’s annoying, and affected, and self-centered, and likes to cause drama, and is incredibly rude, ungracious, and unfun. For example, not only does she never bring alcohol, she never even thanks her hosts for having her (invited or not). And at her parties she does not reciprocate — the alcohol is usually done an hour in.
Anyway, she occupies perhaps 2% of my social thoughts, but this is still too much. Anytime I throw a party, or my boyfriend throws a party, she comes. We hate having her around and have not invited her for the past year. My friends in that circle know we don’t like her, though I’m not sure if she knows or cares. She just comes.
I’m having a birthday party next month, and I really, really don’t want her to be there. I do want a crowd, though, so saying in the invite that we’re trying to keep it small won’t work. I don’t want to say anything directly to her because that’s exactly the kind of thing she thrives on. I’ve told the people I’m friends with not to invite her along. But I’m still stressing she’ll come. What to do with her? Nothing seems to deter her.
Help me out Sars!
Dealing with the stranger from Purlock
Dear Deal,
You don’t want her at your party because she causes drama, but that’s exactly what you’re permitting her to do by stressing about the possibility of her showing up.So, stop.
Having to interact on an ongoing basis with people who miss social niceties like equitable booze consumption is, alas, a part of life.Even if you eliminated Drama Girl from your circle, another interpersonal issue would crop up in her place, so accept that, like a chronic condition, she exists and will probably not go away as a result of any action you take.
And don’t give her any more of your attention; you say she thrives on that sort of thing, so cut off that tumor’s blood supply: stop instructing friends about her either way, stop letting her affect your good time at your own party, just stop dealing with her.Buy enough alcohol to cover mooching, which you should do anyway because she’s probably not the only one who doesn’t pack in.When she shows up, which she no doubt will, greet her civilly and move on to other guests; don’t discuss what a bitch she is for showing up and don’t say anything passive-aggressive to her about that or anything else.If she’s behaving affectedly, move to another part of the room.
You can gossip about her later, but again, if “nothing seems to deter her,” anything you try to do in that regard is a waste of your time and energy.The two of you aren’t trapped in an elevator together; do the host minimum and then let it go.
Dear Sars,
In writing a job application, would the sentence “I recently graduated with a degree in English from the University of Warwick” be correct?
It seems acceptable to me, but my mother says that “graduated” means, by definition, that a degree has been conferred, and so to mention that is redundant, and it should be, rather, “I recently graduated in English from the University of Warwick.”
According to the OED, she’s right about the meaning of “graduate,” but I’m reluctant to use the second sentence because I’ve never heard anyone say it like that and it doesn’t sound quite right to me (although it’s technically correct).
The original sentence sounds wrong to my mother, and I’m not sure whose instincts to trust. Is there a third way that currently eludes us both?
My English degree apparently signifies nothing
Dear Get In Line,
My instinct is to tell you that, while your mother is technically correct, the usage has shifted in the last few decades, and to insist on “to graduate” as a transitive is unnecessary pedantry.
Garner agrees with me, more or less:
The traditional idiom (dating from the 16th century was that the school graduated the student or the student was graduated from the school. By extension (during the 19th century), a student was said to graduate fromthe school.… Those two uses of the verb are standard, as Teall explained in the mid-20th century: ‘”Graduate” may be a transitive or an intransitive verb.… Many teachers ride the”wa graduated” hobby, but common usage, good literary practice and dictionary sanction may all be linedup on the side of the active [intransitive] form, “to graduate.”‘ Edward N. Teall, Putting Words to Work 280 (1940).
In other words, you’re both right; I would go with “I recently graduated” in order not to present yourself too archaically.
Hey Sars,
About two months ago, I was enjoying a Girl’s Day Out with one of my oldest friends. It was a very revelatory day as she told me about many things, including something her boyfriend and told her in complete confidence — his opinion of me.
They were not positive, but I can’t say I’m hurt, and she did not tell me they were supposed to be kept a secret.
Later into the night, we met up with him and all went back to my apartment for a movie and pizza. Good times, right? Sure. Until we were all talking through the film and I slapped him on the shoulder and jokingly asked, “How come you said you don’t like hanging out with me? We’re having fun.”
It turned in to, definitively, a Thing. He looked uncomfortable at my knowing, and upset at her for telling. She was pissed at me for saying anything. There was words, mostly her bitching at me and him asking her if he even has a personal life.
Now, she isn’t talking to me. He and I have emailed once or twice, but she won’t answer my calls or emails. We talked once, the day after. She told me that I betrayed her trust. I told her she didn’t have any right to be angry at me for “betraying her trust” as not only did she not tell me it was a secret, but she was in turn narcing on someone for whom the trust was a greater breech. She then hung up.
I love her, we’ve been friends since middle school. I actually got her and her boyfriend back together after a year break-up using nothing but cheese cake and my natural cunning. We have great conversations on books and the world and music. We’re very different, but for the most part it has worked for us in the past.
That said, she’s become more and more insular since I finished university. She doesn’t socialise with me, nor anyone else. She doesn’t attempt to make friends. She acts like a twelve-year-old most of the time; she pushes everyone but her boyfriend away. She’s like a panda bear: lazy and ineffective but territorial and petty.
So, what I’m wondering, is: is it worth it to even try to get her to talk to me, to salvage our relationship? Because I really do love her, but being with her is such a struggle to not only keep any sort of entertainment in the event, but also to walk on eggshells because she’s offended by everything.
Any tips, Sars? Has the Friendship Lifespan reached the grey end? Or should I try to salvage it and risk resentment in both directions?
She even hates Buffy! Like, hates. How is that possible?
Dear Poss,
Well, this is someone who made a point of passing on to you that her boyfriend doesn’t really enjoy spending time with you (from what I can gather…I don’t know exactly what he, or she, said).He told her in confidence; she did it anyway.So, either she doesn’t respect his desire to keep some things between just the two of them, or it’s overruled by her need to let you know…I don’t know.That someone considers you unlikeable or boring, or that she’s doing you a big favor by spending time with you over and above her boyfriend’s negative opinion.So, that’s not a great sign.
And your need to turn it around on her ASAP and let her boyfriend know that you know what he said is not a great sign either.I mean, I can’t say I would have been able to resist either, myself, because that kind of thing gets under your skin and it’s very hard to pretend you don’t know, but still.”She did not tell me they were supposed to be kept a secret”?Come on.She told you that he had told her in confidence; you can’t not have known how he’d react when confronted with those comments.Whether you did it consciously or not, I can’t say, but it looks like payback/sabotage to me.
And then your letter veers off into other complaints about her, which indicates to me that you welcomed the opportunity to end the friendship; again, I don’t know if you consciously meant to cause a blow-up, but the letter as a whole gives me the sense that the whole boyfriend’s-opinion information exchange confirmed your preconceived feeling that she’s a crappy friend, and when you saw your opening, you took it.
You have great conversations; she’s boring.You love her; she’s an insular brat.You’re conflicted about deciding to end a friendship, I think because you may realize that, in this case, it’s partly due to your own lack of diplomacy — like I said, I don’t judge you, but this contretemps could have been avoided by you as well as by her.
For now, leave it alone.Just let it sit for a couple of weeks.If you miss her or you need closure after that time, send another email apologizing for your handling of the situation and saying you hope the two of you can talk it out, but understand that maybe you can’t, and that maybe that’s a good thing.The way you dealt with the information forced the issue; now that it’s been forced, take a look at what’s really going on in this friendship, and whether it’s actually more a habit than a bond now.
Tags: Buffy etiquette friendships grammar
My Grandmother, a professional writer and editor for 50 years before she passed away, used to complain bitterly about people not using the word “graduated” right. If I were writing Get In Line’s letter the phrase:
“I recently graduated with a degree in English from the University of Warwick”
would be changed to:
“I recently graduated from the University of Warwick with a degree in English”
You don’t have to put the first “was” in there, as it is implicit in the meaning.
This lecture brought to you by Grandma who has beed gone for 10 years, but I can still hear her voice on this one.
@English: what about “I recently earned a degree in English from the University of Warwick” or “I recently completed a degree in English from the University of Warwick”?
@English – “I received a degree in English from…”? That’s usually how I word it.
Would it be too archaic (or too arch) for Degree to say “The University of Warwick recently conferred a (B.A., M.A., whatever) degree in English on me?”
And even if it would, i hope it wouldn’t be to dated to offer my sincerest congratulations on the Tomato Nation’s Challenge achievements. Go, TN Readers, GO!
@ English: “I recently graduated with a B.A. in English” it avoids the use of degree which I agree is a little redundant, but also avoids the ‘not quite right feeling’ I get with the other sentence. Of course if you have something other than a B.A. it is a great way to get it in there too.
*shudder* I can’t STAND it when a “friend” of mine does the whole “So-and-so said such-and-such about you, but don’t tell her I said anything.”
I mean, what on earth is the point of doing something like that? Do they want the credit for somehow being a good friend for letting you know harsh information, but without getting the blame for being a tattle-tale? Or do they love the drama of seeing someone’s face drop, but then get to protest, “Hey, don’t shoot the messenger, that’s not what *I’m* saying.”?
Like it or not, everyone occasionally has a bad day and says stuff about someone that they would NEVER say to their face. Bringing it to the person in question just seems pointless and deliberately cruel.
I think you were too nice to the Buffy-lover. Or was it just me that was completely put off by that arrogant letter?
Who goes around saying to people “How come you don’t like me?” Even “joking,” like the writer implies she was–it just smacks of passive aggression to me. And the whole self-congratulations for bringing back the girl and her boyfriend after a year apart–how was their relationship any of their business? What if they were better off broken up?
And if her friend’s acting withdrawn or isolated, perhaps it’s a symptom of depression or something larger. Nice concern there, jackass.
I guess I don’t really know anything about the situation, but if the friend isn’t socializing with you, maybe it’s because you’re the one who sucks.
Jeez, that was a lot of probably-unwarranted anger. I guess I just identify more with the friend in the situation than the writer.
MoochGirl is awful, but she exists everywhere. Sars is right, you’ve got to learn to ignore her. Bonus- being ignored is what MoochGirl hates most in the whole world, so you can take satisfaction from that!
I vote for “I recently graduated from the University of Warwick with a degree in English” – Dead Grandma sounds correct to me.
And I think you’re really, really sick of your friend, Poss. Give it a break, see if you even miss her…not the being busy doing stuff you two do together all the time, but her, herself, see if you miss the person. You stated she’s gotten very insular since she met the boyfriend. Is he the type of insecure asshat who would isolate her socially so he can have her all to himself? Are there other red flags?
Letter #1 contains one of my peeves, using the word “invite†instead of “invitation.†Is this acceptable usage? I see it used quite a bit, especially on an etiquette website I visit often.
Poss, did you think that after your friend told you something her boyfriend told her about you, that she would want you to mention it to him? It’s kind of common sense.
I understand her being upset with you for spilling the beans, but you don’t seem to be sorry at all. I get if you didn’t mean to cause any trouble, but you have to see it from her side, too. She told you something in confidence and you blabbed. She’s lost trust in you. You can be angry, too, but you don’t seem to want to apologize and patch things up, so why bother trying to put the relationship back together? You think you’re right and she’s wrong, and it doesn’t look like you’re going to budge. That’s not how friendship is supposed to work.
I might recast the sentence for Get In Line as mcm and Jean do, avoiding the problem of “graduate” altogether. (I might have earned a Master’s in Avoidance, except I never got around to writing the thesis. *rimshot*) If pressed, I’d go Kate’s Grandmother’s way. Kate’s Grandmother sounds like my kind of people.
RE: Dealing.
Why are your friends inviting her? Why does she know about a party to which she is not invited? I think your friends have missed a few social cues, as well. It’s not nice to talk about a party to folks who weren’t invited. And you certainly don’t invite someone w/o the hosts ok first. Lawdy, where you people from? Sounds like a young crowd….
@Buffy
I agree with everything Sars said, and yet, what really stands out to me in the letter is a subset of the information:
I love her, we’ve been friends since middle school. I actually got her and her boyfriend back together after a year break-up using nothing but cheese cake and my natural cunning. We have great conversations on books and the world and music. We’re very different, but for the most part it has worked for us in the past.
she’s become more and more insular since university.
She doesn’t socialise with me, nor anyone else.
She doesn’t attempt to make friends.
she pushes everyone but her boyfriend away.
Doesn’t that sound exactly like a girlfriend who has a very controlling boyfriend? Said boyfriend told GF that he doesn’t like you – maybe to get one more contact out of her life? And she doesn’t like Buffy? Maybe HE doesn’t like Buffy, because such a BF would certainly NOT like a show about strong, independent girls and women.
Unfortunately, even if i am right about the underlying problem, i don’t have any good advice.
I kind of disagree with the advice to just give up and accept Moochy McDramaQueen. The phrase is “By invitation only” and it’s a perfectly valid, non-dramatic one. It’s also a part of maturing, to weed out some of the looser, less polite habits we cultivate among circles of friends when we meet each other at a certain point in our youth. Some stuff has to be outgrown, and some behavior needs to be remediated socially. Giving Moochy no consequences just tells her she’s behaving perfectly well. Which – for my birthday? No thanks. She’s not my friend, and friend-of-a-friend doesn’t count sometimes.
@ DEAL
I have no idea if what i am suggesting is nice or mean, healthy or unhealthy. But you could arrange (before the party) with a male friend who doesn’t enjoy parties to invite her away from the party if/when she arrives. You know, “why don’t we go get some coffee or a drink and get to know each other better where it isn’t so noisy?” No obvious friend to do this? How about a cousin, etc ?
Weirdly, I just was perusing that passage in Garner this morning. I’m not quite sure what to make of that.
Deal you should quit pussyfooting around and tell the harpy hipster you don’t like her and don’t want her at your party. It’s your party. You can do that.
As for Poss, well, your friend isn’t the only rear end in a top hat here. You gave each other the royal flush. Now, two months later, it doesn’t seem as if she is just shattered over the death of your friendship. You should follow her lead.
Dealing – What’s my niece-in-law doing in a crowd called “hipsters”?
:) kidding. Although she sure sounds like my niece-in-law. It sucks to have a moocher in the group; I’m sorry about that. Sars’ advice is good, though, and far more mature than mine would have been (i.e., threaten to call the police, physically block the door, kick her out, etc.).
Buffy – Sounds like it’s time to move on… you’re growing up and moving outward, and she’s regressing and moving inward. She reminds me of someone I grew up with; I usually say that we (my sister and I) grew up, but she didn’t. I remember having a lot of fun with her one-on-one, but whenever someone else was involved, tough luck being involved in the conversation. And if there was a guy around…
Move on, Buffy… and best wishes.
@Diane: It depends on what you really want in the situation. If what you really want is to not deal with her, and/or to resist the creation and nourishment of drama, then permitting her to show up uninvited to what sounds like a large birthday party is probably the best way. Because some people won’t fuck off even when instructed so to do.
“It’s not nice to talk about a party to folks who weren’t invited. And you certainly don’t invite someone w/o the hosts ok first. Lawdy, where you people from? Sounds like a young crowd….
Hee. Another Sarah, I think you’re my kind of people, too.
I think Poss may need a break from her friend. I agree that it’s possible that Poss’s friend may be too isolated, but I read sentences like “She’s like a panda bear: lazy and ineffective, but territorial and petty,” and I can’t help thinking, “Are you sure you’re friends?”
Deal: I agree with Diane and Blair regarding Hipster McHarpy. Don’t let her in.
It sounds as though you’re in a lose-lose situation; if she comes in, she will cause drama. If you confront her, she will cause drama.
Since there will be drama either way, I say: turn off your give-a-damn regarding what she thrives on. If she attends the party, she will make you unhappy, and the way I see it, the real heart of the problem isn’t really her, it’s that the rest of your friends don’t seem to take you seriously on your not wanting her around.
Don’t say anything directly to her before the date. Invite the rest of your friends however you want to. If McHarpy shows up, remind her that she wasn’t invited and tell her to get out. Bar her at the door if you get the chance. Don’t budge until she leaves. Don’t be afraid to make a scene in front of your friends; if the harpy wigs out, let the rest of them see that you won’t tolerate this anymore. Keep saying the same thing to her until she leaves the premises. Threaten to call the cops if she doesn’t get it. Call the cops if she doesn’t get out.
There probably will be drama in that case, but your letter suggests that wherever she goes, drama follows. If the rest of the circle sees how much she pisses you off, they may think twice in the future about letting her come near you.
Poss: You keep saying how much you love this girl, and I don’t doubt that you do, or at least you did at one time, but it also sounds very much like this friendship has reached its expiration date. Sometimes that just happens. Maybe you should just let her go.
I don’t know if the second letter writer really did graduate from the Univ of Warwick (or if was just an example school) but if she/he did, then hi! I got my MA degree in English lit there in 2002. Small world. . . And for me, I am totally comfortable with either your sentence or your mom’s sentence, but grammar was never my main focus.
Do not call the cops. Come on.
By all means have a word with your friends beforehand and let them know that plus-oneing people you don’t like is not okay, but seriously, if she calls the bluff and you do have to call the cops? I mean, good luck explaining that shit to NYPD if she’s not violent and hasn’t stolen anything; she’s just an ass.
The only effective way to deal with drama queenery is to decline to deal with it. Calling law enforcement does not qualify, and it will be you who is no longer invited around afterwards, not her.
I agree with Sars on Hipster McDownerpants: just ignore her. I think everyone in an urban area has a friend or a “friend” removed by one or two degrees that does this— behaves like an assclown, talks too loudly about her/himself to the exclusion of all other topics, drinks your booze and acts like a pill. They’re always going to show up and they’re always going to confirm your dislike of them. Just be thankful it’s a big party and you have the opportunity to ignore them. There’s nothing worse than being stuck with Grubby in a party of four or fewer. But I would hope your friends would respect your wishes and leave her at home. Good on you for asking for that, btw.
And as an aside, I hate hate hate when people ignore the implicit “don’t tell anyone…” in conversations like Poss had. I think, as socialized individuals, we all can tell when something should be kept to ourselves, especially when it’s gossip like that. I have had many people tell me that I needed to clearly state that some choice opinions shouldn’t have been shared with the party they were about, as if I needed a notarized contract of confidentiality. The good news is it’s taught me to better hold my tongue. But to the point: dude, you knew that was private. You just chose not to keep that privacy.
There are times when you need to make a stand with the uninvited – a large birthday bash is probably not one of those times. If she shows up, ew, but ignore her. The alternative is that YOU look like a giant gleaming asshole for making A Big Thing out of it. I’m thinking Deal is a bit of a drama-magnet herself for even worrying about it. And then remember that it’s your birthday and maybe time to start growing up.
Poss, I agree with the peeps above that perhaps this friendship is ending. It happens, it’s cool, life goes on and maybe you’ll reconnect in a few years, who knows? Just because she’s been your friend since middle school doesn’t mean you have to become old ladies together, with miniature poodles and matching blue hair.
I just have to say – the only time I would ever really honestly threaten to call the cops (I was joking earlier, by the way) is if the person was causing serious trouble, noise issues that would really aggravate the neighbors, refusing to stop, refusing to leave while making such trouble, etc. It would have to be something where the person was damaging property or about to get me in trouble with my neighbors/super/landlord and they weren’t listening to reason, and even then it would be a warning threat first (and several times thereafter).
Seriously, the cops will not appreciate being treated like bouncers. My ex-bro-in-law was a cop in NYC for 20 years – take my word for it.
I would just like to say that “Lawdy,” “turn off your give-a-damn” and “she’s not the only ass in a top hat,” are quite simply awesome.
Hipsters don’t call cops – we already evade them to get good photos of run-down old factories. I’m with Sars on Deal’s question: ignore her, possibly mentally write an alternate universe for her (“poor dear, she insisted dragging herself to my party despite her condition) or whatever kind of cognitive dissonance works for you. Leeches will continue to leech – in my experience, there’s usually a few individuals who figure it out early on (“hey, didn’t she forget to chip in last time?”) and then eventually a seething hatred develops until her last friend in the group will be another leech or low-level social pleaser, either of whom can be taken out for the sake of the whole.
@Poss, I’m agreeing with Sars on this too, but I am kind of… shocked. I’m trying to think of a parallel universe where “and you say you hate hanging out with me!” can be uttered jokingly or in any socially acceptable way.
@Kathryn: Word. People who go around carrying dirt like that drive me CRAZY. Wanna see something funny? Next time someone comes to you and says “Well So-And-So said THIS about you..” tell ’em “Really? That’s not right, I’m gonna go talk to So-And-So right now and clear this up.” Watch their face fall. Watch them backtrack and say “oh NO, she’ll know I was the one who told you!! You can’t go talk to her!!”
See, they never intended for you to do anything with this information other than silently chew on it and give yourself a complex. And that’s why they suck.
@Poss
Gosh, I can’t imagine why the boyfriend doesn’t want to hang out with someone who compares his girlfriend to a panda bear, lazy, ineffective, territorial and petty.
It seems like you’re not really friends anyway, so letting it go seems like the obvious choice. But for future relationships, it seems like it might be a good idea to hang out with people you don’t think ill of.
A friend once told me that the mark of a good friend is how you feel about yourself after you hang out with them. If you consistently feel bad or feel like you haven’t been your most awesome version of you, then why are you still doing it? I can’t imagine you enjoy feeling this way, so remove yourself from the situation.
Hi there,
I’m the OP for the first letter. Just wanted to throw an update, since the party was in September (I understand you have a large backlog Sars! No blame!). I chickened out of directly asking her not to come, but someone above kind of got it right: the problem was really with a close friend who kept telling her about the parties and she would just show up. Since that friend and I stopped being buddies for different reasons before the party, Hipster McMoochpants (love this nickname) didn’t show.
Many of you suggested making a scene or pointing out her moochery to others. That works with different groups of friends, maybe, but consider that no one is ever thrown out of this group without removing themselves on purpose. Telling them that their friend is a downer and mooch would be met with: “Okay, but she can come, right?”
Sigh. Glad I’m free of that. Thanks all for the comments.
I have two non-friends just like Hipster McMoochpants (and one of them is engaged to a girl just like that as well, sigh). I share an office with one of them, and he is constantly telling me how to do my job, even though he isn’t good at it and I am. One girl, Annoying McMoochpants, asked me once at a party I was hosting to which she had not been invited – why I hadn’t invited her and whether I was mad she’d shown up. Right in front of other guests, she asks me this. I stammered out a “well, oversights happen, gotta go check on the food” non-response and to this day I wonder if I did the right thing, or whether I should have been more direct. I’m dreading her showing up to my Halloween party and annoying everyone with stories about how great and tragic she is. Deal, consider yourself really lucky that you were able to get rid of Hipster. McMoochpantses aren’t fun.
@Ted, I am so using “poor dear, she *insisted* dragging herself to my party despite her *condition*” someday when I’m dealing with an uintended interloper. Hee!
Can I just throw something out there, about Buffy?
Not every instance of a person having little desire to socialize with anyone other than a very few people (or even just one person) is pathological or toxic.
I am somewhat of a loner, although I do very much like having one – ONE – close friend or lover at any given time. I have a lot of trouble handling more than one close relationship, or even more than one conversation at a time. I don’t even chat online, because having to interact with two people at once makes me anxious and irritated. It’s just how I am, and I’ve accepted it and become comfortable with it.
So, while it’s possible that the girlfriend in Buffy’s letter has a “controlling boyfriend,” it’s also quite possible that she has simply scaled back her socializing as she grows older/more mature/more self-aware. If there are other factors indicating a problem, then absolutely, be concerned, but just the fact that “she’s not socializing so much these days” doesn’t have to be problematic.
For myself, I’ve finally realized that I don’t *have* to spend hours on the phone listening to someone talk about things I’m not interested in just to be polite, even though I don’t particularly like that person… it’s okay to retreat a little, draw boundaries, and to cut ties when people don’t respect that. If I prefer to be reading a book or puttering in my garage by myself, I have that option.
Obviously I’m seeing the situation through my own lens of experience, but it is a bit irksome when someone is automatically “trapped in an abusive relationship and Needs Help” just because they’re not as social as someone thinks they should be, or as they were back in their Glory Days. It’s rather like being told you’re a binge alcoholic because you misjudged the amount of booze in the punch at a party that one time 15 years ago.
It’s good to be aware of the various “warning signs” but not EVERYTHING has to be a pathology. Sometimes it’s just settling down as a factor of age/maturity, and/or learning how to stand up for one’s own preferences.
“The American Apparel wearing universe” just slays me. Thank you for that. Moochy O’Hipster girl sounds like a sad individual with no real friends. I feel a bit sorry for her. But, since I am usually the person who ends up being the only friend to this category of individual, I am not going to offer advice, since my advice would probably result in your being maid of honor at her wedding.
“American Apparel”, though. That just slays me.
In the other sitch, everyone should have kept their mouths shut if they wanted peace. But since no one did (the boyfriend, the girlfriend and Buffy) I am going to guess that you all needed to air this out. And you did it in a way that brought the conflict to the surface where it needed to be. Ultimately it is probably for the best.
@Ted: Brilliant, that is! Also, Blair: “rear end in a top hat?” How did I miss that? Hee!
@Deal, have you tried saying something like “Can you RSVP if you’re coming, so I can get an idea of the numbers?” It makes it clearer that it’s invitation only and also that you care who’s coming. Or if you’re doing more casual invites, just doing a, “So who’s coming? You, me, probably Ms X and maybe AA too… have you told PQR about it?” Not saying everyone, but specifically not saying her.
It’s awkward because you can’t exactly turn her away at the door, but you also don’t have to get away with it. If she is a mooch, then saying when she comes in, “If you’ve brought some wine, you can put on the table, that’s where everyone else is.” And smiling brightly. Every time she comes, especially when you know she hasn’t.
e: word word word FREAKING WORD. Thank you.
Also, since when does not liking Buffy mean you’ve wandered into a Lifetime movie? I freaking hate Buffy — off to the women’s shelter with me!
It occurs to me that maybe Panda Girl is specifically trying to drive Buffy away, not everybody in general. “My boyfriend doesn’t like you” is a dick move, but that could’ve been deliberate. Could the subtext have been “… and I don’t either”?
Ooh – good Vine letters!
Moochy ‘friend’ girl: I don’t know how old everybody in this situation is, but it sounds very ‘high school’ to me – the idea of friends who travel in a pack and always think they’re invited to the same thing. If it’s any consolation, that will die a bit of a death as everybody starts working, having kids, etc. But you can always speed the transition up a bit by starting to organise more structured social events – dinner parties and the like – where only particular people are invited and it’s not a free-for-all. That way, you can phase out people who you don’t want to hang out with. In the case of this girl and the party, if you’ve told your mutual friends that you don’t really want her there, you’ve done everything you can. You can either make a scene if/when she turns up, or you can just get on with it. I’d advise the latter if you don’t want a big drama at the event itself. But I would raise an eyebrow if you see her with a drink and drop a bit of a ‘oh – did you bring some alcohol this time? Great!’
With regards to the Buffy-hating fan (and I’ve never watched the show and hate all that kind of supernatural vampire type stuff, so I’m not holding that against your friend): It seems like you’re using this recent drama as a good reason to dredge up everything else you don’t like about your friend. Which is weird, in my opinion. What is also very weird to me is that your friend would think it was correct/right/appropriate to TELL YOU that her boyfriend doesn’t like you. What was the point of that? I mean, my husband doesn’t have warm fuzzy feelings for the large group of people I care about and call friends, but I couldn’t give a stuff: they’re my friends, not his, and he’s not exactly going to make it hard for me to see them, or be rude to them. And it sounds like the boyfriend in the situation you described was fine towards you before this drama unfolded: you were hanging out that evening, after all.
So I’d say this: if your friend revels in telling you bad stuff that won’t make you feel happy (which is how I’d categorise her comment to you), it’s probably a bit of a shaky ‘friendship’ that the two of you have. Ditto, if you’re quite so delighted to parade her many faults.
Friendships run their course. Proper friends usually want the best for each other and happily overlook each other’s faults, and certainly don’t take any given opportunity to make the other one feel bad. I reckon your friendship with this girl might be past its best-by date.
One of the things I NEVER UNDERSTAND about Vine letters is the common occurrence of the letter that says, “I hate my friend. What should I do?”
It’s one thing when these letters come wrapped in guilt: “We just don’t have anything in common; she’s a drag; she’s a downer; she insults me; she hates my boyfriend; she stole my wallet; she kicked my dog; she TP’d my grandmother’s house…but she’s my BEST FRIEND, so what can I do? I feel terrible about not returning her calls.”
But it’s even weirder, to me, when they are indignant, as Poss’s letter is. When somebody says, “X told me he doesn’t like you,” you do not need to be told that you’re not supposed to repeat it. By definition, this is talk behind your back, and it is meant to remain behind your back. You can decide not to keep it behind your back — as Sars said, it might be hard to pretend not to know, once you know — but don’t kid yourself that you *didn’t know* it wasn’t intended to go public that her boyfriend had said he didn’t like you; that’s silly and will keep you from getting to the root of the problem.
If you don’t like your friend anymore, then she’s not your friend anymore. There’s certainly such a thing as “this particular thing frustrates me about my friend, whom I otherwise love.” But when you find yourself writing genuinely contemptuous things about your friend to strangers — like the panda line — you clearly don’t like her anymore, and you owe it to both of you to get out. It’s not family; you don’t have to see her at holiday time, so you can cut her loose. I have been upset by things that various friends have done, but I guarantee you, I’d never write anything like that about any of them, because…they’re my friends.
Length of association isn’t the key to the closeness of a relationship. You can be intimately close to people you’ve known a short time; you can have no interest in someone you’ve known since infancy. My vote? You’re not friends anymore anyway, so just…stop hanging out with her.
“I read sentences like “She’s like a panda bear: lazy and ineffective, but territorial and petty,” and I can’t help thinking, “Are you sure you’re friends?”â€
I did the same thing. All of our friends get on our nerves from time to time, but that’s a really mean way to describe someone you consider a friend.
“What is also very weird to me is that your friend would think it was correct/right/appropriate to TELL YOU that her boyfriend doesn’t like you. What was the point of that? I mean, my husband doesn’t have warm fuzzy feelings for the large group of people I care about and call friends, but I couldn’t give a stuff: they’re my friends, not his, and he’s not exactly going to make it hard for me to see them, or be rude to them.â€
Yeah, that struck me as total passive aggression. I could see it if Boyfriend were being a dick to Poss and Poss asked what the problem was, but to just be like “My boyfriend hates you†apropos of nothing, and then just sit there with no follow-up? What are you supposed to do with that? It just doesn’t sound like either of you likes the other, so … that’s that, then.
@ Deal: glad your party went the way you wanted it to. It sounds like you could be in New York, where big parties take place in bars more often than not, so the invitation line gets a little blurred because bars are open to the public. I’ve never seen anyone who wasn’t invited show up to brunches or dinners I host in my apartment (at least not without asking my permission first; people get that my apartment is small and I can’t fit any more people in here than I invited, plus I’m cooking so I have to know how much food to buy. But I HAVE seen randos at birthday parties in bars, because hey, we’re all just hanging out, right? Might help to add some structure, as someone suggested: sending invitations in the mail (emails get forwarded), asking people to RSVP, etc. Past a certain age, you stop doing the invite the whole class to your party thing, and you’re within your rights to point that out when it comes to events you’re hosting.
Thanks for the suggestions everyone! I think coincidentally my mother and I compromised on Kate’s grandmother’s sentence but in future I might take one of the options avoiding the word “graduate” altogether as actually although I have completed the degree, for logistical reasons I haven’t had the ceremony yet (my university has graduations throughout the year- which I think proves that I didn’t go to Warwick, Ex-pat Erin, but it is an awesome place and I kind of wish I had gone!).
Man, I remember in high school I didn’t want this one girl to come to my birthday party. I went to a pretty small school, so when you had a party, basically everyone showed up. I decided I was just really sick of this girl & I really didn’t want her coming & how could I get her to not come without a whole big dramatic show-down. Well, that wasn’t going to happen, b/c I forgot that she loved drama (when she found out I didn’t want her coming, she confronted me). Almost as much as she loved being manipulative & passive-aggressive. Funny thing is, I ran into her years after high school & hung out for a bit, until some minor stupid thing happened and . . . Drama! Manipulation!! Passive-Aggression!!! And I realized, wow, some people never change, and wasn’t I totally right all those years ago??
Um, that was a totally useless post, I guess. Oh, I’ll make a point: people don’t change, so excise the deadwood from your life. Getting older certainly helps make that easier!
So…Poss, your “friend” lets out that her boyfriend doesn’t like hanging out with you when you already have plans to hang out later in the evening? Or else, after she has told you this, y’all make plans to meet up with him?
That feels totally weird and passive-aggressive to me.
Honestly, if I were Poss’s ex-friend, I would stop talking to her too. But really, everyone (except possibly the boyfriend) is acting shitty in this situation. Poss’s ex-friend should have never said it, and Poss sure as fuck shouldn’t have commented on it.
I think this is a “good riddance, friendship over” situation.
Regarding Poss Nothing in her letter states that the boyfriend said he Hated her. She doesn’t even elaborate what specifically he said. I think that info is kind of important. Some of the girls I have dated have had friends that initially I was not a fan of and sometimes I let my girlfriends know that. The thing is that most of the time my feeling towards the friend changed and I came to see what my girlfriends saw in them and stared to see them in a much more positive way. I still would have been embarrassed if they had found out but at least could have said that my feelings had changed. I would think that the fact that they all were hanging out together may have been because the Boyfriend had changed his mind about her. Based on her letter it seems entirely possible that it wasn’t so much a “My boyfriend hates your guts” as it could have been a “Ya know, when we started dating my boyfriend wasn’t a fan of you but now doesn’t have a problem anymore” Just my opinion though.
@Poss: Your friend did a shitheel thing to you and didn’t own it. You did a shitheel thing back to her and didn’t own it. The problem is not that you both did shitheel things. The problem is that neither of you seems interested in taking responsibility for your behavior. Slapping douchebag ex-friend’s boyfriend on the back and letting him know that his girlfriend’s a passive-aggressive idiot who can’t keep confidences is something you do when you’ve already decided you’re done with this friend and you’re going to get your digs in before you go.
Own it.