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Home » The Vine

The Vine: October 4, 2005

Submitted by on October 4, 2005 – 1:52 PMNo Comment

Oh wise Sars, who is far more versed in the language than I —

I was composing an angry letter to a political wingnut (exposed as such over on TINO) and realized I had a usage question I haven’t seen addressed thus far in Vine history. In addition, the answer to said usage question may give me the opportunity to score points off my dad, who fancies himself somewhat of an English-language expert, so I hope you’ve got your game face on.

What distinguishes “insofar as” from “as far as”? Obviously the latter is correct when talking about physical distance: “Drive insofar as the mailbox and turn left” is ridiculous. But I wrote the phrase “As far as I know” and realized my dad would have circled it in red and replaced the first two words with “insofar,” were he doing the proofing — and quickly came to the realization that I had no idea which one was preferred usage for formal writing. Or is “insofar” “irregardless”‘s elder cousin, which would mean a major point to me in the ongoing usage wars between myself and my dad? He’s already losing on the passive-voice front, so one more might just do it.

Thanks in advance,
“S’far’s I Know” Is The Southern Pronunciation


Dear “Hell If I Know” Is How We Say It In The North Today,

I’m going to say, before I look it up, that neither usage is preferred; replacing “as far as” with “insofar as” seems like pointless pretension to me, but it’s possible that the two phrases do have slightly different meanings, so let’s go to the books and see.

Okay, for starters, the 11C defines “insofar as” thusly: “to the extent or degree that.”The phrase works as a conjunction (“insofar” on its own means the same thing, and works as an adverb).This would seem to mean precisely the same thing as “as far as” in this context.

Garner…well, I won’t quote the entire entry, but Garner isn’t a fan of the construction, saying that, while on occasion it’s appropriate (as when it follows phrases like “at least”), usually it’s wordiness for wordiness’s sake.He goes on to list numerous examples in which the authors use it incorrectly instead of “if,” “where,” and “as far as.”

So, it’s seldom an automatic correction, and in the example you cite, it’s just kind of too much.Grab a Garner and point your dad to the entry; Garner counsels a “lean style,” and refers to “insofar as” as a phrase that’s the opposite.


Dear Sars,

My boyfriend (let’s call him H) and I have been together for four
years. We’re very much in love and have a great relationship. We’re
both professionals in our mid-twenties who make just enough money to
afford the essentials and have a little bit of fun.

A little bit of backstory: H and his parents rent a large two-story
house. H’s father in his sixties, is relatively healthy, and still
works. His mother is in her seventies and her health is rapidly
deteriorating — we don’t know how much longer she has to live. (Most of
her medical bills are covered by Medicaid and various charities, so
the expense is not a hardship.) H’s father doesn’t make enough money
to afford the monthly rent on the house they live in, so H has been
paying over half of the rent, expenses, and utilities for nearly a
decade. In my opinion, the rent is quite high and impractical, but H
wants his ailing, elderly mother to be in comfortable, familiar
surroundings for as long as possible.

Here’s where I come in. I graduated from college last year. I didn’t
have a job lined up and I had nowhere to live, so H and his folks
invited me to stay at their place for awhile. Not ideal, but it is a
rather large house with lots of room, and I really wanted to live with
H. We all agreed that it was going to be temporary, but I had no idea
what the time frame would be. So we left it at “once I can afford a
place of my own we’ll work out the logistics of me moving out”-cakes.
This arrangement worked well for a few months. I got a decent job and
started paying my share of the rent, and H’s parents were very happy
to have me there. But I was getting uncomfortable; I really needed my
own pad.

H’s parents are wonderful, gracious, friendly people, but they’re
terrible with money and lack common sense. Before H was born, they
lived in a prestigious neighborhood in a nearby city and became
accustomed to a luxurious lifestyle. They took this mindset with them
when they moved to the suburbs to raise H. Even before his mother’s
illness, his parents never planned for the future. They live
comfortably enough for now, but they have no credit, savings or
retirement plan. Any extra money they have at the end of each paycheck
inevitably goes towards superfluous expenditures that gather dust.
They buy new furniture and new housewares almost weekly. They’ll spend
several hundred dollars on groceries and then let the food rot. Most
of the floor space in this house is used for great dusty piles of junk
that they’ll never use. They are too proud (and probably too well-off)
to apply for any public assistance or switch to a more practical
lifestyle.

I am quite frugal, so I find this infuriating. Part of me wishes that
H would just “cut the cord” and let his parents own up to the lousy
decisions they’ve made. They’re adults, and their financial troubles
are no one’s fault but their own. But that seems almost heartless — his
mother is dying, for God’s sake. So I sat down with H and we had a
good long talk. H dislikes his parents’ lifestyle. He’s tried for
years to get them to rein in their spending, to no avail. Ideally,
he’d like to get an apartment with me, but he felt obligated to
continue to help his parents with expenses — after all, they couldn’t
afford to rent this house on their own. He also mentioned that he’d
feel like I was breaking up with him if I moved out. Stupidly, I let
the issue slide and continued to live there. This went on for over a
year.

So it came as a mixed blessing when the landlady asked for her house
back. We had all known that she was eventually going to move back onto
her property, so it wasn’t a huge surprise when she asked us to vacate
the premises. She did everything completely legally, and followed the
housing laws to the letter. Since everything was on the up-and-up,
there was no point in fighting the decision.

It was obvious that the four of us would need to seek new housing. So
H and I had another good long talk, went apartment-hunting, and found
some very affordable one-bedroom units in a beautiful, manicured, quiet
neighborhood. H wants to strike a compromise with his parents: we’d
find two one-bedroom units in the same complex. H’s parents could
easily afford the rent on one, and H and I could live in another. That
way, we get the space we want, but H is only seconds away if his
parents need help. They’ve been quite good at respecting our space in
the past, so I don’t think the proximity is going to be an issue. Then
we’d sell all the junk that’s lying around and put all the proceeds
toward a savings account.

H’s dad is hearing none of it, though. He wants to rent another big,
two-story house, and put all four of us in it! H and I politely but
firmly told him that this would be impossible, and H has had many long
discussions with his parents about what can and can’t happen. However,
I’m worried that his parents are going to insist on the house, find
themselves unable to pay the rent, and beg for H to come back to them
and pay the bills.

Sars, I realize that there are some tough decisions to be made by H
and his parents, and much of this situation is none of my business. Do
you think my housing idea sounds practical? Is it cruel for me to want
to remove myself from this situation? I love H and I want to live with
him, but I’m not ready for in-laws yet, and I do not want his parents’
poor decisions to have any impact on me yet. Do you know of any
financial resources, like housing credits for the elderly, that would
help H’s parents? Am I heartless for wishing that his parents would
just stand on their own two feet?

Signed,
Cheapskate from New Jersey


Dear Cheapy,

Yes, I do; no, it isn’t; no, I don’t; and no, you aren’t.

None of this is your problem, technically.You care for H and his parents, of course, and it’s not as easy as just washing your hands of it, but you really need to have another talk with H in which you make it clear that you just can’t factor them into your housing decisions anymore — not yours as in “yours and H’s.”Yours as in yours.You sympathize with his situation; you know he feels he has certain obligations; you support him in fulfilling them.But.You aren’t going to live with H’s parents anymore, and you aren’t going to be in any situation in which you’re tied to them financially — and you feel it’s unfair of him to expect otherwise.

If H feels that your removing yourself from the housing/finances is like a break-up, well, that’s how he feels, and you’ll have to address that when, as, and if it comes.But you just said that you aren’t ready for in-laws, or for this level of involvement with his family’s fiscal wellness, and just because he’s going to be hurt by that fact doesn’t make it any less true, or any less valid on your part.

Let H know that you’re renting a one-bedroom and moving into it, and you love him and you don’t want to break up, but this particular set-up is not working for you and you will be leaving it, period.


Sars,

I often see “Cf.” used in writing, sometimes expressed as “cf.” or (more
rarely) “c.f.”

I have a vague contextual sense of what it means but it’s hard to get
specific answers because it’s a tough term to Google for. OED seems to
back up my hunch that it means something in the vein of “to further
drive my point home, consider THIS!” — somewhat stronger than “e.g.” but
not quite “QED.” I’m curious if you could shed some light on this, and
settle which capitalization/punctuation scheme is most appropriate.
(And, is the latter context-dependent? Is “Cf.” simply the capitalized
form of “cf.” for when it starts a sentence?)

Many, many thanks!
Con-Fused


Dear Com,

I looked it up on m-w.com, and it actually means “compare” (from the Latin, conferre).So, it’s not really driving a point home; it’s closer to “viz.” than to “QED,” I would say.

It’s also an abbreviation, so “cf.” is indicated, and yes, you’d capitalize it at the beginning of a sentence…but given what it means, I don’t see how you’d start a sentence with it, quite.


Dear Sars,

I’d been going out with a man for 18 months.He was my first boyfriend and I was his first girlfriend.We had an unusual relationship.We’d been friends for nearly two years, and we got together a week before he moved to America for six months.We waited for each other, and when he returned things were awkward between us.I always think it was because we’d never transitioned from friends to lovers before he left (one chaste kiss).When he returned, we got on great, but more like best friends than anything else.We were both afraid to make the first move, kissed rarely, and attempted sex only once.I wanted more, but he made me happy for about seven months.We always said “I love you,” although I said it without meaning it.I adored him, and wanted to be with him, but I was still getting to really know him.Moreover, he didn’t really mean it either.We both just thought that’s what girlfriends and boyfriends do.

Anyway, seven months after his return, I grew tired of all the “I love you”s, because by this stage I knew that he wasn’t the one I wanted to grow old with — I knew that I just didn’t love him.I thought I should stay with him a bit longer, because I remembered how I used to get butterflies around him and thought this might happen again.He was training to be a teacher, and it was about this time that he underwent his final teaching practice.Because of this, we only saw each other once a week, which is what he needed at the time.I was very supportive, but was now fully aware that I wanted to finish things with him.I had no feelings for him anymore, beyond those of a friend.I was waiting for him to finish his practice to talk about this with him.However, he failed his teaching practice, and was very depressed, so again, I put it off.

Then when he resat his teaching practice, again, it didn’t seem like the right time.For the whole of these two months, I started spending a lot more time with our friends, in particular, one of my closer friends.We grew very close and I realised that I had more than friendly feelings for him, and he for me, although nothing was ever said, because I was with someone else.He guessed the state of things between me and my boyfriend.We were best friends, and I could talk to him about anything.

Then my boyfriend failed his teaching degree completely.I was a coward and put it off again.We went on holiday with our friends, and I confessed to this other man that I no longer wanted to be with my boyfriend at all and was beginning to resent him for it.I didn’t want the pain of having to do that to him (I know now how selfish and foolish this was now). I had a long conversation with this friend during which I told him that I didn’t know why people say “I love you” when they don’t mean it, and how I hated myself for doing it.He agreed.He had never had a girlfriend, but believed no matter how harmless or little the lie may seem, a person shouldn’t say it unless they mean it.”I love you” should mean “I love you.”

We’re getting to the problem now.After a very sobering conversation with my friend, and him pointing out that I was miserable and depressed, and everyone knew it — not to mention what it was doing to my boyfriend — I broke up with my boyfriend.A short while later, me and my friend got together.We have been together for over a year now, and have never said “I love you.”I do love him.I have been trying to determine how I really felt about him for months, and I really love him.I have never said it, because I just don’t know how he will react to it.If I say it, he will know that I really mean it.We have our problems but we’re great friends, are still all over each other after a year, make each other laugh, et cetera.I know he cares about me.He’s a genuine and fantastic bloke and I love him.

My problem?I just don’t know whether to tell him.I think he will be absolutely honest in his reply.If he doesn’t feel the same way, he will tell me so.He might also think it will be best for me if we don’t go on seeing each other.I don’t know if he is in love with me.If he is, he may well feel the same as me and just be afraid to say it due to the importance we have both attached to saying “I love you” to someone.This has certainly been my problem so far. So, do I ruin a pretty damn good thing by telling him this?

Regards,
Please Please Help Me


Dear Oh Yeah, Like I Help You,

(Beatles reference.Just go with it.)

I understand how scary it is to contemplate saying “I love you” to someone when you’re not sure he’ll say it back, or if he feels the same way, or what will happen if he doesn’t feel the same way — but I have to tell you, you’re overthinking this.You gave me all this information about your last boyfriend, and it’s not entirely irrelevant, but…this isn’t about the phrase “I love you.”This is about a certain inertia in relationships on your part that’s in evidence again here; that’s the issue, not the words and/or whether you mean them.

Yes, you should tell him how you feel.If he doesn’t feel the same, that will hurt, of course, but if he doesn’t feel the same, you’ll find out eventually anyway, and at least this way, you’ve spoken honestly and trusted both him and yourself — which is really the only way to operate.You didn’t do that the last time and you wasted months with a guy you didn’t love, so don’t focus on the phraseology; focus on acting instead of waiting.

Either way, you’ll be fine.Speak frankly; believe me, it’s best, no matter what he says in response.


Heya Sars,

Boy problem numero 87,938. I finally met a good one — we get along
fabulously, the sex is great, and we can’t seem to stay away from each
other. I could see this actually leading somewhere really good. Yeah, it’s
been about a week. A week of nonstop time together, almost literally.

That’s
the first issue — why am I head over for a guy I just met, and on the
internet of all places? Segueing from that issue to the next, he keeps
telling me how much I remind him of his ex. Like, weird, really coincidental
things that have nothing to do with the reason we got together — like, I
didn’t put my penchant for going by my middle name or my history of
childhood trauma in my profile, but whenever I tell him something about
myself, he’s all “ex said/did/experienced the exact same thing…” I let him
know it made me kind of uncomfortable, and he told me that when he broke up
with her, he wished he could date someone like her, but without whatever
nebulous bad qualities she had that led to them breaking up. And he thinks
that person is me. Is this totally bizarre? He promised to stop doing it
because it’s “disrespectful” (his word) to me. But it happens every so
often, and it’s making me feel squicky, like he’s on the rebound.

Aaaaand
problem number three: he got together with his ex because she was friends
with people in his band. She’s still really good friends with said bandfolk.
He said he’s kind of uncomfortable introducing me to them, especially at a
venue where she’s likely to be, and we’re coming up with scenarios (like I’m
photographing the band) to introduce me into the circle. Grrrrrrrr. I know
it’s not my job to make him comfortable, or to make his friends okay with
it, but how do I deal with the angerball feelings this brings up in me?
Don’t WANNA be “that girlfriend” that the circle hates, she who I have read
about so often in The Vine.

Drama makes me all itchy


Dear Then You Must Be Covered In Hives Right Now,

It’s…been a week.You need to chill, about all of it, because yeah, to tell you the truth, the going on and on about his girlfriend, coupled with the reluctance to appear in public with you if she might be there?Is a red flag.Also a red flag?That you don’t want to “be ‘that girlfriend.'”You…aren’t the girlfriend yet, or at least you shouldn’t be, because, again: it’s been a week.

“But –“Look, I’m not saying love at first sight isn’t possible, and I’m not saying you don’t get along great with the guy or that he’s not a good person.I’m saying that you’ve known the guy for seven days, and you’re already writing to an advice column about your issues with him, so maybe you need to slow down a little with the commitment rhetoric and look at why you’re already both 1) overly attached to him as part of your future and 2) feeling like an “angerball” about things.

Don’t worry about making his friends “okay with it” yet.Slow down; slow way way down.Get “okay with” that, yourself, first.I don’t think this guy is a great pick, frankly, especially if you’re trying to avoid drama, but before you make any decisions either way, take a day or two off and just…chill.

[10/4/05]

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