The Vine: October 7, 2009
Hi there,
I have a quick question for you and the readers. I’ve had two performance evaluations at work recently, with two different people. Both of them said essentially the same thing; that I’m a hard worker and good at my job, but that I’m a perfectionist who beats herself up too much when she doesn’t meet her own high standards.
This isn’t news to me, and it’s certainly not the worst flaw to have, but it’s a heck of a thing to live with. I’ve been making an effort to let the mistakes go, learn from them and move on. But I can’t seem to stop dwelling on them, picking them apart, rationalising, excusing and obsessing over every aspect.
It’s exhausting, and I hate it, and I was wondering if you or your readers had any tricks or strategies for making the internal self-abuser Just. Shut. Up. I’m willing to try almost anything.
Trying To Accept That Not Being Perfect Is Not The End Of The World
Dear Perf,
The inability to incorporate mistakes rationally and move on from them isn’t the end of the world either; a lot of people have this problem and lead functional lives.
It’s exhausting living as a control freak, though — I speak from experience — so you might want to try a couple of things to help you let go of mistakes and disappointments more easily and quickly.
First, surprise surprise, is therapy; a few sessions with a counselor may help you unpack why you obsess over mistakes, so that you can obsess over the root cause for a few weeks, then let that, and everything else, go.What exactly do you fear from making a mistake?What is your negative fantasy of what will ensue from a poor, or even imperfect, performance?Maybe it’s an abandonment issue, maybe it’s a control issue — a therapist can work with you to figure it out.
Second, use psychological tricks to manage your anxiety here.I’d suggest a sort of closure cheat, similar to sweeping up your apartment every night to symbolize the tidying up of the day just past: writea report on the mistake, which includes everything that you could have done differently and everything that you perceive as your fault, but also everything you did right in the situation, everything you couldn’t have controlled, and so on.Make a short list of “what I have learned” conclusions at the end, and file it — literally.
Maybe you’ll find that effective because your performance anxiety (hee) centers around your work; maybe it sounds contrived.But it’s worked for me, because it does give me something to do, something to control about a mistake that, really, I can’t control because it’s done with.It lays out in black and white that my anxiety is usually not rational or helpful.And it does suggest different strategies at times.
I’d pair both strategies — talk to a counselor, and write reports in the meantime — but the general idea is to accept that this is your nature, and not beat yourself up about it, while also not letting it take too much of your time or energy.
Dear Sars,
I’m a senior in college, and I’m about to receive my degree in English. With the economy being so bad, I’m so worried about finding a job with an English degree. Plus, I never left home. Part of it was my decision, and a big part of it was my parents telling me I should stay home. Now, they’re talking about how I’ll need to get a job and move out once I graduate. Don’t get me wrong, I knew it was coming, but it’s just happened so fast.
To top all of that off, I haven’t done as well as I wish I had in school. My grades aren’t terrible, but they’re very average. I’ve still got two semesters to bring them up to something respectable, and I hope I will.
But I just feel so totally unprepared for the real world, and I feel like my parents and others I know look down on me because I haven’t established any real independence after three years of college. I’ve had a job pretty much since I was a sophomore, but they’re usually menial jobs. I don’t know really anything about moving out and paying bills and all that. I feel embarrassed by that.
So, I guess my question is, what advice would you give to help me out at this point in my life. I’d ask my parents, but it’s hard to talk to them, because they put up this wall of sorts, where they just talk down to me almost. I have a few friends, but they’re not exactly going through what I’m going through, so they can’t relate. I just need help because I feel so lost.
Q
Dear Q,
You should talk to your parents — if only to clarify why they kind of undercut your attempts to be more independent, but are now turning around and saying that the deadline for you to grow up is totally inflexible.I mean, yes, you should get a job and move out, but you might have done that if they hadn’t suggested you do otherwise.
You should also go to the careers office at your school and get signed up for any services they can offer you: career counseling, résumé-building, and so on.They can point you in the direction of those fields that tend to hire English majors; they can also learn what you’d like to do, and tell you how to do it.
When it comes time to move out and pay your own bills, you can ask a friend for advice on banking or movers; you can do research online, and comparison-shop for furniture; you can handle it.Moving is a pain in the ass, but it almost never kills anyone.Paying bills on time is quite easy, thanks to internet banking, and if you do it every two weeks, you’ll be fine.People learn to do these things all the time, and there isn’t a handbook, but you seem to think that everyone else sprang fully formed from the heads of their parents, factory-installed with knowledge about Things Grown-Up, and it’s not the case.You learn as you go.
The main thing you need to do on all these fronts is get some more information.You don’t know what you want to do for a living (or, if you do, how to go about doing it), you don’t know how your grades will turn out, you don’t know what your parents want from you or how you can give it to them…you just don’t have any information, so everything seems much more intimidating and undoable than it actually is.Talk to your parents, talk to a career advisor at school, and try not to panic yet.
Hi Sars,
You answered my question several years ago about my dad hating on my interracial relationship.You were right, and six years later me and the boyfriend are still an item.In fact, we just moved in together.So of course I have another question.
I have wedding fever.And I need to cool it off.The boyfriend and I have agreed that marriage is in our future but for me, the future is now.I find myself surfing Offbeat Bride, watching “Say Yes to the Dress” marathons, and even having dreams about my wedding when I sleep!
The rational part of my brain knows this is not the time for us to get married; we’ve only been living together for about a month (after being long-distance for the past four years), we have to save up, I’m getting a new freelance career off the ground, etc., etc.
But I’m almost 33 (the boyfriend is almost 29) and I feel like I’m getting older by the second.It’s not a question of needing to get married to have kids, because neither of us wants them. It’s just that I feel ready to take the next step and, after watching what seems like all my friends and family get engaged or married during the past couple of years, I feel like I’ve hung in there for so long and now it’s my turn.
The boyfriend and I talk sort of half-jokingly about “our wedding” (“We’ll never play the ‘Electric Slide’ at our wedding!”) but that can hardly be counted as a proposal.And I don’t want to have a wedding just for the sake of having a big party and getting all the attention; I want to spend my lawfully wedded life with THIS GUY.
Over the past six years we’ve famously taken things slow (if we had a nickel for every time a friend or family member asked about marriage plans we could pay for the wedding already) and it took my boyfriend awhile to acknowledge that maybe he was actually the marrying kind.I don’t want to push (I hate those women that demand a ring and give deadlines for a proposal), and I don’t want to spook the boyfriend since we’re still getting used to living together (although it has been going great).
So what can I do to keep the bride envy in check and let the rational girlfriend rule the roost?
No “chicken dance” allowed, either!
Dear Celebrate Good Times, Come On,
The wedding stuff probably comes from a fundamental insecurity you’re feeling right now, which I imagine is a result of recent changes in the relationship (moving in together) and your career.A wedding is fun, it’s a celebration, it symbolizes a permanent union, you get to be the center of attention and the focus of everyone’s good wishes — it’s a perfectly understandable “happy place,” as these things go.There’s cake.Enough said.
As long as you aren’t pushing your boyfriend, or passive-aggressively leaving magazines open to diamond ads, I don’t really see anything wrong with it, unless it persists for months on end.It does seem like a normal response to some chaos in your emotional life elsewhere, even if it’s not a rational one.
With that said, if you want to get married and it’s important to you that you make the commitment legal at some point — and not the kind of “at some point” that lets your boyfriend postpone it indefinitely, but an actual specific point — then you should tell him that, because it’s the truth and he needs to know.”I want us to get married someday — a day before 2013.I need you to know that because if we’re not on the same page, someone has to adjust his/her expectations here, and it’s better to know that now.”
And you can always propose to him, you know.But this isn’t about bringing him around to your version of the fairytale, so much as you worrying that some of the fairytales you have told yourself won’t come true or don’t have happy endings.And sometimes they don’t, but I wouldn’t worry about the bridal-industry gorging you’re doing right now.Just don’t substitute it for doing real thinking about what you want, or real talking about it with your boyfriend.
Tags: boys (and girls) Kool and the Gang workplace
Celebrate – People have lots of different reasons for getting married, and it’s not a bad idea to sit down and really think about what it means to you personally. There is the fun of the big day itself. And of course, there is the feeling of commitment and permanence in your relationship. All the schmoopy romance stuff. But I recently had a discussion with one of my friends, also in a long-term relationship, and after attending a mutual friend’s wedding, she explained the following to me: The real actual significant important part of any wedding is the vows. And in her own relationship, she and her boyfriend have already made those promises to each other. In sickness and in health, for richer for poorer, til death do they part. And they mean it. A piece of paper today or next year or in a decade has zero effect on their promises to each other. And so, in her mind, marriage is not a next step. There is no next step in their personal commitment to each other. Any eventual wedding would be for the party and for non-romantic legal benefits. I’m not saying this mentality is for everybody, but I think it can really help put some things in perspective when thinking about your own relationship and where you think it “should” be going.
Celebrate – To add, in my experience, eloping is ridiculously romantic! And who needs to worry about the money for a party. Also – no electric slide or chicken dance :) Because sometimes a guy is less nervous about being married and more nervous about the engagement process…
To Q – also remember, you can find a room-mate, or housemates – you don’t have to go straight from living with your parents to living by yourself. My years with room-mates were super fun, super annoying, and hugely important in learning how the big world out there works!
Graduating is scary stuff, but it’s also pretty fantastic.
Q: I recognize you! You were me 20ish years ago – from the English degree (“Okay… now what?”) to the “How does everyone know this but me?” — yep, that was me. So, yes, you will figure it out. Maybe not all of it on the first try, but enough to muddle through. I was so sure everyone was holding out on me, I kept asking the same question over and over. To this day, when I get all het up about something, a family member is sure to ring out “Why won’t someone just tell me how much my DWP bill will beeee?” just to tease me. Here’s what worked for me: formulating a plan, and designating Subject Matter Experts. The guy who seems to know finances get the questions about bills; the friend who is handy around the house gets those questions (and, uh, still does); and so on, until you’ve defined who can help you with what. Ask away, and then keep track of what they say, and put it all together. It also helps if you have some skill to barter in trade (as an English major, I proofed papers; I also typed periodically), because you certainly have some knowledge they want. Just remember most of these kinds of lessons are learned through trial and error; I’ve found it’s the errors that tend to teach the lessons that really stick. Heh. Just take it one thing at a time, and stick with it. You’ll figure it all out. Good luck.
For the girl with wedding fever (by the way, the Macarena is a no go), I can only give you my perspective – as someone who got married just over two weeks ago to a man I’ve been living with for 11 years. :) I’ve been through my share of insane bouts of wedding fever over the past decade. It was a foregone conclusion about eight years ago that we’d get married ‘one day’. Although this is obviously very subjective and wouldn’t apply to everyone – or maybe even anyone – else, here are a couple of the bonuses that came with waiting.
Planning a wedding is stressful enough without any new relationship things thrown in. You learn a LOT about someone by living with them. Suddenly noticing he leaves balled-up socks under the bed when you’re already about to explode from dealing with vendors and family might be more than you need to sign up for. Part of what made our planning so easy and stress-free was that we already knew how to work as a team in every other aspect of our lives.
All of our wedding guests already knew us as a couple – in fact some had never known us separately. I’m telling you, the love and support we felt that day was freakin’ awesome. And no ‘I’ve never met you yet you’re a guest at my wedding. Enjoy the expensive meal’
What made 2009 the right year for us, after so long? I can’t name an exact reason, but I do know that it was because we were both on the same page about getting married. We both knew it was time. Good luck!
I recommend that Q check out the Get Rich Slowly blog (http://www.getrichslowly.org). It has all kinds of advice about handling finances, and every so often the entries are specifically aimed at young adults who are just starting out. The commenters usually have a lot of good info, too. J.D. even does a sort of Vine-like “Ask the Readers” on occasion, so you could write to him about any specific money-handling questions that are stumping you.
To Chicken Dance – my husband and I never had a proposal either way. At some point it just became understood that we were going to eventually get married. It didn’t take long after that realization for me to catch the wedding fever and start devouring wedding magazines and hanging out at The Knot. I even went so far as to buy my dress (I saw it online and it was perfect and I just figured, why wait?). It hung in my closet for a year while we talked about how we wanted to but it wasn’t the right time yet, we needed to get our finances in order, find better jobs, finish projects we were overwhelmed by, etc. When it became apparent to both of us that there would never be a perfect time to plan a wedding (there really never is), I asked him, “So, you wanna go ahead and set a date?” We did, and gave ourselves another year to make our plans and get our stuff together. Not the most romantic story, but we just had our third anniversary and we’re both reasonably happy.
I will add that, somehow, and I’m still not sure how this works, but saving money became easier *after* we got married. As for weddings being fun, sure they are, but planning them isn’t always. We just had a small wedding with only our closest friends and immediate family in attendance, and I had a B&B staff making most of the arrangements for me, and it was still one of the most stressful and exhausting years of my life. Worth it, but still. Be sure you’re ready to deal with that before and your boyfriend commit to it.
I’d just like to second everything Janet said! If you want to do it to be “legit” in case one of you gets hit by a bus or something, eloping will do that just as well as anything. Beyond that, I am of the opinion that… if you know he loves you, and he knows you love him, and you’ve already decided to spend the rest of your lives together (which IMO you should probably have established before you get married, not commit to each other *because* you’ve gotten married)… then what does it matter if you have a piece of paper or not? Unless you want the party and the presents and the dress and stuff, which is a separate deal entirely.
Then again, recent events in my shameful home state of CA may have soured me on the whole marriage question… if marriage is about love and commitment I would feel wrong and squicky to do it when the institution discriminates against ~10% of the population… but YMMV.
Celebrate — At 29 and 33, after 6 years together, it seems to me like you’ve waited long enough. People who are ready/willing/wanting to marry one another would have done so already. IMO (and IME as well), those who justify not wanting to get married using excuses like “it’s just a piece of paper” or “we don’t need the county to approve our relationship” are really dodging the reality that someone just really doesn’t want to.
If you’re ok just living together, hold your head high, make no apologies for it, accept that’s what your life *is* and stick around. But if you *want* a lifelong, legal commitment in front of friends, family and the god of your choice, then find somebody who wants that, too. When you do, you won’t have to 6 years to get there, for sure.
“People who are ready/willing/wanting to marry one another would have done so already.”
Not to be dismissive, but this is, of course, completely untrue. I know couples who have gotten married after significantly longer than that and been perfectly happy, and so do lots of other people. This kind of arbitrary generalization is no basis on which to give advice. Moreover, announcing that people who say they don’t feel like the legal document is important are all lying to themselves seems rather presumptuous to me.
Chick-D, like Sarah said, if it’s important to you to get married, then you need to clarify that. If you don’t trust him to tell you the truth about whether he genuinely intends to get married within the general time frame you have in mind and you suspect he might be jerking you around, then you aren’t ready to get married anyway, because … you don’t trust him. But if you do trust him, then if he tells you that he wants to get married but wants to wait a little longer, then continue being happy and content in the relationship. Right now, you don’t feel like it’s urgent to get married. At some point, if this continues, you probably will. If, at that point, it’s not happening, you can decide then what to do. If it’s a good relationship, it’s insane to throw him over because you become convinced that he’s missed some deadline that is hard-wired into the brain as the natural time for people to get married.
I think you feel guilty because you think there’s something cliched and gross about wanting to get married, but weddings are a hugely significant custom across cultures and eras and societies, so feeling drawn to that custom doesn’t make you a dress-grubbing ‘zilla. Not everybody cares to partake, but it’s perfectly natural that you do. See what happens. When you get to the point where it feels urgent, treat it like it’s urgent. For now, read your magazines and enjoy your happiness.
Bitts, I don’t think that’s necessarily fair. I was with my husband for 4 years before we got married. We both knew it was coming a lot sooner, but there were external reasons for it not to happen sooner, which also seems to be Celebrate’s case. She didn’t seem to say anything like it just being a bit of paper or not needing the county to approve; it’s just that they’ve been long distance for a LONG time and it’s taken a while to get to that stage.
Celebrate, have you actually talked to him about this? I understand not wanting to pressure him, but I think this is information he needs to have :)
To Q — everything that Sars said about becoming independent is spot-on.
About the “getting a job as an English major” thing — bear in mind that for many people, what they majored in in college ends up having more to do with their avocations than their vocations. I was an English major because I like to read and analyze texts, but I knew there were very few jobs where I’d be called upon to do that (teacher, journalist,…..tumbleweeds rolling by). My first jobs were temp jobs, because I needed to pay the bills. But one particular temp assignment led to a permanent job (with benefits, but still no literature), and that oddly enough led to a career in IT. Turns out I was good at more than lit crit, and I still love to read and talk about reading — but not for pay.
When you set out to find a job, if you don’t limit yourself to English-major-y things, you’ll probably find work sooner. Don’t turn up your nose at clerical gigs, because once you’re inside a company’s walls, you can find out about all sorts of jobs you might be good at but that you never knew existed. You’ll be amazed what business skills you can acquire if you are able to follow directions. And don’t underestimate the value of being able to think, read, write, and speak the English language. Every department in every field needs good communicators, and that might be your ticket to move from “job that pays the bills” to “career that is rewarding.”
To Q: As a fellow English major (twice over) I want to emphasize that there are TONS of jobs and careers that welcome folks with social science degrees like English. I wouldn’t worry too much about finding a job, but like Sars says, you want to start exploring what KIND of job will be best for you. So I second the advice on talking to folks in the Careers office at your school. They have lots of information.
I would also suggest that if you have done or like to do volunteer work, there are often positions within non-profits that let you discover what you like to do and possibly transition into a paying job. They are great places to do internships and learn more about a business (albeit an often poorly-funded one) and, best of all, work with some great people who oftentimes are passion about what they do. You may not want a long-term career in non-profits, but they are places that are always looking for people who write well (presumably, you are one of those folks) and who want to do some good while figuring out what to do long-term. Bonus: Non-profit work looks great on your resume.
To Chicken Dance: As a 30-something woman who has seen pretty much all of my friends get married I can understand the marriage obsession. I think maybe you’re doing it to yourself, but there’s also a good bit of societal pressure that exists as well as a multi-billion dollar wedding industry that’s pushing some of this on women in a certain age range. I say enjoy this time for what it is — a chance to be a little excited about this future celebration and fun peek into your probable future — and don’t worry about what it all means. The good news is that you’ve found the guy you want to go on the adventure with, so don’t worry too much about the departure date for said adventure. Enjoy the NOW part with this guy you love. The rest will either come or not, provided that you give it some time.
@Perf: Sars’ idea about the reports is very similar to a technique I use when I find myself having head weasels over something. Therapy can help, too; I would suggest that when you are looking around for a counselor, look for someone who can do both exploring your background issues and some behavioral therapy. Anxiety issues are often best treated by a combination of the two, and it’s handy to be able to do both with the same person.
@Q: Many college career counseling offices offer resources about how to be independent. Both students who live at home and those who live in dorms often need a crash course on how to read a lease, who to call to set up utilities, and hints on organizing chores like food preparation. When you are checking out resources for job hunting, be sure to investigate these peripheral offerings, too.
Q: As a back-up plan or a baby step, maybe consider getting a job on campus. At my school at least, having a student job on campus was a good stepping-stone to a full-time job in the summer or after graduation. And even though an admin or support job at your college probably isn’t what you want to do for the rest of your life, they tend to pay enough to support yourself and come with benefits and look respectable to other prospective employers/landlords you want to rent from/judgmental parents.
I have to disagree, Bitts. My partner and I have been together for about 6 years, living together for 3. We have made a strong commitment to each other and plan to get married and have kids in the future. But now isn’t the right time. For us, the main reason for getting married is to have a wedding that will make our families happy, and to simplify certain legal stuff. We don’t have time to deal with wedding planning at the moment (I’m a busy grad student), and the legal stuff hasn’t been an issue yet. I don’t think one can infer from that that we don’t really want to get married. If he lost his health insurance tomorrow, I’d be at the courthouse this weekend. Since that hasn’t come up yet, we prefer to keep waiting for a while.
“I don’t want to push (I hate those women that demand a ring and give deadlines for a proposal)”
But you do have a right to be a part of the decision — what you call demanding deadlines/pushiness can also just be communication. My BF of four years wanted to wait to get engaged until after he got a tenure-track job, because then he would be an “adult.” The market was bad and he only got a post-doc — I argued that it was silly to put it off for another year because of a twist of fate. He thought about it and proposed two months later (to my significant surprise). YMMV but he was relieved, he felt much more mature having done it and it helped him finish his diss. We married last year.
Celebrate — I notice that in your letter you talk about how you’re dreaming about your wedding, and not your marriage. Now that you’re finally living with your bf, it’s a good chance to get an idea of what your life together will be like. I humbly suggest that once you’ve lived through a. his being sick; b. your being sick; c. an argument; d. a shared household project (such as painting, installing a new floor, etc); e. having his family over; f. having your family over; g. dealing with a disagreement over money…. well, once you’ve done all that, then it’s time to think about proposing. And you’ll deserve the big party.
Q: Aside from the excellent advice given by others, I will add only this remark: once you have your degree, no one will ask or care what your marks were. So don’t worry too much on that particular score. (At least, I’ve never heard of it happening)
@Perf: I thought I’d add a trick that has helped me break a number of negative thought patterns/cycles over the last couple of years:
Wear a rubber band on your wrist. When you’re feeling one of those beating-yourself-up cycles starting, snap the band – HARD – to startle yourself out of the cycle, and then force your brain onto another subject, preferably something nice that can take your full attention for at least a few minutes.
It’s quick, easy and surprisingly effective, and can be done at any time, even in public without drawing attention to yourself. (To keep it extra-private you can cover the band with bracelets and/or tell anyone who asks that you’re wearing it to remind you of something, like a piece of string around your finger.) It’s worked a treat for me, and I’ve recommended it to a bunch of people who have all said it helped them too.
Good luck, Perf! This kind of mental block is a crappy thing but it can be overcome, even if you don’t feel that way when you’re caught in it. You can absolutely do it.
For Perf:
If you can laugh at yourself at all, you might want to try a technique my therapist introduced me to. He called it “Making It Worse”.
You take the mistake, and you think of all the ways it could have been worse. Continue far beyond the “reasonable” point, to the “utterly absurd” point. Then step back and compare how bad it could have been with how bad it was.
Then laugh at it.
I dated my DH for 8 years, six of which were living together. I wanted to get married, but he didn’t, or he did . . someday. I was fine with that for quite a long time. From time to time I got wedding fever (or marriage fever, as I didn’t really want a ‘wedding’) but I always got over it. Until one day I didn’t. He came home to me crying that I NEEDED to be married to him. I couldn’t explain it – I needed that piece of paper. And not just to anyone, but to him.
He agreed and we got married. I can’t explain the difference in me – I’m more secure, happy, settled, it’s been great.
So hang in there, you’ve only lived together for a short time, but don’t apoligize (spelled that wrong) for wanting to be married. Sometimes it’s more than a piece of paper.
Oh yeah – I still get a special thrill being called “Mrs” and it’s been 2 years.
Bitts – I know a *lot* of people (and I mean a *LOT*) who would disagree with you, with good reason – they got married after a long time together (often longer than 6 years) and the long waits were never because someone didn’t want to commit, they were because the couple felt good with their relationship as it was. My guy and I are currently in the same position. Yeah, our families are bugging us, but we’re happy how we are, without the legal mumbo-jumbo. And did you somehow miss the part where Celebrate and her beau have been long-distance for the last four years?
Celebrate – just keep in mind that wedding fever is not the same as marriage fever. :) As another poster said, your relationship is going through a significant change, and it is natural to focus on “the next step” in bizarre ways. In some ways, it is like what happens to some people when they get engaged – they start having dreams about their exes. Not because they want to get back with their exes, necessarily, it’s just that the brain processes things weirdly. Recognize that your mind is going through a phase, and let it do so. And congratulations on ending the long-distance part of your relationship; I know how nice that is!
Just another voice on the side of the “piece of paper” camp – it’s great to make a commitment to someone you love. The difference between that and a marriage is that when you get married, you make that commitment publically, and you ask your friends and family to witness that commitment, and to support it. Relationships don’t happen in a vacuum, and any long term relationship that you want to last needs at least some support from the people around you. Sometimes you get that without a marriage, but with a marriage, both members of the couple acknowledge that they want that public support, and they want to make their commitment publically. That kind of commitment shouldn’t be dismissed as just “a piece of paper.”
I’m not knocking anyone else’s choices – far from it. But Celebrate, if you want to get married – not the wedding itself, necessarily, but the marriage – there’s nothing wrong with not just wanting it, but stating that it’s something you require. I know what you mean about not liking ultimatums, but if after another year, or two, or three, he still hasn’t decided to ask you to marry him, what’s the next step? I don’t think there’s anything wrong with stating, at the point when you feel it’s time, “Look, I love you, and I love the time we’re spending together. But marriage is important to me, and if that’s not a place you see the two of us going, then I can’t stay in this relationship.” There’s really not much distinction between “an ultimatum” and “stating what you want and not settling for something you don’t.” Don’t talk yourself out of marriage if that’s what you really want.
@ Perf – one thing to be aware of is that “perfectionism” is actually the polar opposite of a focus on good work – instead, it’s an obsession with identifying and dwelling on IMperfections.
Yet no-one’s faults and mistakes are that valuable and great that we need to endlessly return to them, long after anything of value has been learned.
Looking at it that way, you may find it easier to focus on what’s already “good” or “suitable for purpose” or whatever phrase would classify your work more productively than the concept of “perfect,” which invites in its opposite right away, just like a bright light source throws shadows.
What I’m trying to say is, focus on the good not the bad, because what you’re doing right now actually constitutes a self-renewing perpetual flaw in your own abilities.
Oh, and I speak as a “recovering perfectionist” who still has to take my mind off what’s bad, and onto what’s working, in…. well, pretty much EVERY aspect of my life! Good luck.
Perf – Along with therapy and the other suggestions, “Learned Optimism” by Martin Seligman is a book that might help. It helped me. Good luck.
Q-
Buy this book and read it.
http://www.amazon.com/Get-Financial-Life-Personal-Twenties/dp/0743264363/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1255004883&sr=8-1
Some of it will seem irrelevant or like a far off dream to you now (the chapter on homebuying, for example)…but it gives good guidance for starting out in the real world. Also, do you know any 20something people you can turn to for advice? An older sibling perhaps?
It seems simple, but basically, if you don’t know how to do something, go to your book store or library and find out. The Idiot’s Guide’s and For Dummies series of books are great. Break down and make a list of what skills you need that you don’t have at the moment and learn them. If you don’t know how to cook, find a cookbook that will teach you how to make simple, inexpensive meals so you aren’t living on microwave food. There are dozens. If you don’t know how to do laundry, well, maybe there’s not a book on that one, but ask your mom to show you. Phrase it as wanting to help out if she starts talking down to you. You don’t know how to dress/talk/create a resume/interview for a job? Well, the career counseling office can help, but so can reading Resumes for Dummies cover to cover.
But, mostly, know millions of people have done this before you and were just as scared, but they worked it out and you will too. I know it feels overwhelming, but trust me, even if you are living in a crappy studio apartment getting started, there is nothing like coming home at the end of the day to YOUR SPACE, however humble, and doing whatever YOU please. It rules.
Perf- I know this is a little thing, but I try to not talk to myself in ways that I would never dream of talking to a stranger or acquaintance. Yes, I have higher expectations for myself than for relative strangers, but I also don’t deserve to be berated, even by myself. So if I am bitchily complaining to myself/about myself about a mistake I’ve made but I would not, say, approach the mistake the same way to a co-worker (because it would be embarrassing, undiplomatic, counter-productive, humiliating, etc), I try to cut it out and give myself a break. I try not to be abusive to others, and I’ve extended that umbrella of protection to myself. Just mentally stepping out and imagining another person in my place receiving the same kind of criticism has helped me recognize when I’m being unhelpfully hard on myself.
Good luck to you!
I don’t think you quite understood what I was getting at, @Linda. I was not making an arbitrary generalization. I was referring to partnerships in which one party wants to get married and the other doesn’t, not to couples who are BOTH perfectly happy with the status quo, as in @Laura’s and @B’s examples. In Celebrate’s case, hers sounds like the former. I clearly cast no dispersions on those who choose TOGETHER to wait, or who forgo marriage altogether.
@ADS said it very gracefully and ITA.
Q, Jean’s suggestion about the Get Rich Slowly blog is excellent. You will find a lot of really, really helpful advice on making it through your adult years.
The one piece of advice I will give you and suggest you try to stick to is: Spend less than you earn. You have no idea yet of the misery you can cause yourself if you ignore those five words. You may look at that sentence and think, “Pffff, what else was I going to do?” The answer for a lot of other people has been: run out and live a life on credit. Making minimum payments is NOT the same thing as spending less than you earn, a mistake a LOT of people make. I won’t tell you flat out not to use a credit card; many people might. I WILL tell you I think it would be a wise move to have all the money for your purchase in your bank account BEFORE using a credit card to buy it – then pay your purchase off in three payments, no more. Don’t be afraid of empty space in an apartment, either; surely one of the things you’ve learned reading comments here (not to mention Your Friend The Tee Vee) is that more people have problems because they have too MUCH stuff, not too little. Craig’s List and Freecycle will be good friends to you.
I do think it’s worth having a QandA session with the folks; it sounds as if they kept you with them when you were perfectly prepared to go off and be an adult, and now that they’ve undercut your Be An Adult impulses, they want to turf you out. Either they’re awfully manipulative, or they’re operating according to some script for How Your Child Should Grow Up – only they haven’t given you your copy. You can do this, you know; lots of folks who are less prepared than you have gone on to function as adults. (insert “If I can do it, anyone can!” here) Sars has run a couple of columns in the past year re: I Have An English Degree, Now What Do I Do With It? As far as other grownupy sorts of things are concerned, like utilities, etc., you know how to do research: the magic of Teh Innernets. You’ll figure out what you want (electricity, heat, a/c, water are good ones to start; maybe you have a cell phone already); you’ll compare different rates. Maybe you’ll have some roommates to start out with; apartments sometimes include utilities.
You can do this.
Wow, in my world, this was like a total Hannah-themed Vine: Insecure about emotional flagellation? Check. Insecure about post-college independence? Check. Insecure about wedding obsession? OOOOh check.
Q: I was in the same boat as you–lived with the ‘rents through graduation. Don’t worry yourself: When the time comes, doing responsible grown-up things actually comes quite naturally. Once you follow through on an ad for an apartment, you gain momentum, and each little task doesn’t seem like a big deal anymore. It’s kind of like learning to drive: You sweat over left-hand turns and parallel parking, but before you know it, you’re handling that stuff without even thinking about it.
Celebrate: Duuuude I’m with you. Feeling guilty about caving to societal pressures and all that; not knowing what to say when people ask you for the billionth time when you’re going to get married.
For me, I think the biggest pressure might stem from the (however irrational) fear that .not. getting married means he’s .not. marrying me on purpose, and as soon as I’ve recognized that fear, I want to disprove it. I’m doing my best to maintain my (and his) sanity, while also expressing my feelings. Which meant A) initiating a calm, grown-up conversation with him to confirm that we wanted to marry each other, B) telling him that I was ready whenever, and C) asking him to please tell me if engagement was more than a year away. Other than that, I’m just trying to be Zen about the whole thing, especially because if I bug him and he turns around and proposes, it’s going to start a whole new crisis of neuroses because I’ll start thinking that I nagged him into doing it.
Yeah, therapy is fun.
With respect to Perf — While I agree on the counselor piece, not just any counselor. Someone who specializes on cognitive / behavioral therapy. They specialize in interrupting repetitive and harmful trains of thought and behavior, while regular talk therapy is not designed for this — more designed to provide insight into the reasons why, but less equipped to develop concrete steps for overcoming this type of perfectionism.
Perf- I could have written your letter. I have an unfortunate tendency to beat myself up over mistakes at work, even though multiple people, including my boss, have told me that I’m great at my job. I was let go from an earlier job, and I’m still suffering from the effects of it. As it turns out, I have generalized anxiety disorder, and I started receiving therapy earlier this year. It’s really helped, and I’d also like to recommend a book called The Anxiety and Phobia Workbook.
@SorchaRei: “head weasels” is an excellent phrase that I need to adopt.
Not to be too absurd about it, but marriage is more than a piece of paper. If it were just a piece of paper, people wouldn’t be so passionate about who does or doesn’t get to have that piece of paper. Granted, not all people are equally passionate about it.
There’s nothing wrong with people not getting that piece of paper if they don’t care about having it. I know many couples who have lived together for decades and never felt the need to sign a certificate with the state.
However, if it is important to one person, and not important to the other (or worse, the lack of it is as important to the other), that is a problem. It’s not clear to me that Chicken Dance has that problem yet, since the fantasy seems to be more about dresses and shrimp cocktail than grandchildren playing in the yard. So my biggest piece of advice would be not to confuse a marriage with a wedding.
Celebrate, I think Sars is correct – it *is* normal when an engagement and subsequent marriage seem inevitable to start dreaming of it and thinking about it, and even getting a little anxious that it’s not happening. My friend went through it (proposal after 4 years), I went through it (proposal after a year and a half – which isn’t long at all, but we knew pretty much by the time we started physically dating that neither of us would ever be with anybody else). And it can be really hard sometimes because you start to wonder, “Why the wait? Does he not want this as much as me?” We even had a couple of hard discussions about it, and I felt frustrated and unhappy for a while. And as silly as it seems to get upset and anxious over “a piece of paper,” for a lot of people, marriage really is a “happy ending” of sorts, and a new beginning, too, and it’s not wrong to want that, or to want the big party either.
For me, in the end, it turned out that I was in a ready place a bit before he was – he was trying to finish his thesis and didn’t want to add planning a wedding to that mix. But also, it was about him wanting to surprise me – the more I brought it up, the more he felt like he couldn’t possibly propose in a way I wouldn’t suspect. Sars is right that you can propose, too. But if you think he’s the sort who would want to do it, there’s something to be said for having whatever discussions you need to now, then keeping your copy of Bride under the bed for a while so he doesn’t feel like every special occasion you’ll be expecting a ring in your champagne.
Sorry to say it, but “pieces of paper” are what make the world go round. The real estate/money/health care world, at least. It sucks that this is the case, but it has been so since about 5 minutes after the Garden of Eden.
For anyone that is in a long-term relationship with someone that involves or might involve buying a house, having children, or any other long-term arrangements, please make sure that you have SOME piece of paper somewhere. If it’s not a marriage license or a license of civil union (either because you can’t get it or don’t want it), then make sure it’s a will or power of attorney or something that gives you some sort of say in case of a breakup, death, or sudden health crisis.
Q, the important thing to remember is that no one, in the history of the human race, has entered young adulthood with the slightest idea of what the fuck they were doing.
Your parents? Your peers who seem to have it so together? That teacher you had a huge lifestyle crush on? No idea. None. They stumbled along, figured it out, and most importantly, they still are. Yep, even your parents. They sound a little abrupt and manipulative from what you said in your letter, but that doesn’t mean they have the whole shebang figured and are keeping it from you. They’re just stumbling along like the rest of the bozos on this bus.
It’s certainly the long wearing fashion to mock arts degrees (I have one in THEATER, for God’s sake) but it’s valuable in many ways. You have a grasp on reading and writing (don’t laugh, you will run into many, many people who have none, if you haven’t already.) You have trained your mind in something that you care about and will help you keep yourself good company during your life. And most importantly, majoring in English was a life decision that you already made, at young age. So you’ve already done a big, grownup, adult thing, and while it was hard, and took a long time, it wasn’t so bad, was it?
There’s really nothing you can’t do, including fucking up a lot, making up your mind and then changing it, moving into an apartment that has the funkiest wiring ever, adopting a pet, meeting a person who will change your life, and all the other glorious and terrifying things that make up a lifespan. You’re already doing it. Forge ahead with shaky boldness, and trust me, it will work out.
Q: this is admittedly a cliche, but you that whole stupid “Dammit eat your beans because kids are starving in Africa?” thing. There’s a much less guilt-inducing version of it that I find helpful when the “I’m such a nitwit” feeling comes on: look where you are in a bigger context. I mean, here we all are on the Vine, right; and I think most of us are educated, from developed countries, have pretty decent lives. Do you know how many people in the world don’t? Right now, in this country, there are girls who would KILL to be you, succesfully earning a degree, able to get out and live your life any way you choose, no debts, no kids, etc. You are accomplished. (And whoever says you aren’t is full of shit.) This is NOT to instill guilt; this is to get you to stand up straight, be happy with yourself (and nice to yourself), and cool it. So you’re not sure exactly what to do with that accomplishment. So what? Just do something; who cares if it isn’t Your Life’s Grand Meaning.
Hey perfection: whom are you being perfect for? I have to wonder if there is a person in your life (a parent, old boyfriend, whatever) you mentally feel standing over you, such that if you don’t do everything absolutely perfectly, then that valued person will be disappointed in you. That might be a tangilble demon to work on with your therapist.
For Perf: All the suggestions in this thread are excellent, but I thought I’d share the one that worked for me. I read somewhere that perfectionism is a form of extreme egotism. A perfectionist believes not only that everything must be perfect, but that they are the only person who can make it perfect — which is extremely egotistical. This may or may not be the kind of perfectionism you are experiencing, but it was the kind I had perfected (ha ha!), and it not only interfered with my work when I made mistakes, but also while the work was in process, because I could never let things go. For some reason, just framing perfectionism as egotism changed my orientation enough that I break myself out of that thought process much more easily.
@Perf: In addition to Sars’ advice, I highly recommend Taming Your Gremlin by Rick Carson. I’ve found it extremely helpful for toning down my own perfectionist tendencies. (The subtitle sums it up nicely: “A Surprisingly Simple Method for Getting Out of Your Own Way.”) Good luck!
@Chicken Dance: At my wedding oh so long ago we wrote into the DJ’s contract that if he played Chicken Dance or “Swinging” (remember that one?) he wouldn’t get paid.
Something that helps me assuage my perfectionist leanings is to remember that there are very few things in this life that are irreversible. Short of giving birth and taking a life, you can undo most things. If you take a job that turns out to not be what you’d hoped, you can try to find another one. If your living situation isn’t ideal, you can move. If you biff bill-paying, well, there will always be bills, which means there’s always a chance to get current. If you date or even marry someone who turns out to be bad for you, you can break up. It’s not always easy to fix mistakes, but it IS doable. Once you get used to the idea that nothing is written in stone, it makes it easier for me to move forward.
@Bitts: I’m not sure what you mean. It’s no less of a generalization when you’re generalizing about people who individually don’t want to get married versus couples where they both don’t want to get married. They’re both generalizations. I simply don’t agree that you can choose a period of time and say, “If he doesn’t want to marry you now, it’s because he doesn’t actually want to at all,” which is what you told her. You told her that anyone who is ever genuinely going to want to marry her won’t want to wait six years. In fact, you said, “for sure.” I understood you perfectly; I just don’t agree with you.
@Perf: I also found the book Be Happy Without Being Perfect extraordinarily helpful. I used to get the same performance reviews as yours when I was in my twenties and early thirties. It seems I’ve started to mellow with age though. Good luck.
Once again, Linda said what I wanted to say, but much better. Go Linda!
Q, LaBellaDonna really made excellent points. To what she said, I would add, start saving your money now for when you move out. You can totally do it, but there are a lot of upfront costs when you first move out that you need to plan for (i.e. security deposit and first month’s rent, some furniture, at the very least a bed and sofa, dishes and basic housewares like towels, sheets, etc.).
Chicken Dance,
I’m sure your guy could be an exception, but I’ve known of many women who throw away the best years of their lives with bums who they end up financially supporting because they think the men might marry them someday. My opinion is that it’s insane to merge household possessions and finances with someone you’re not engaged to. Think carefully: are you the one who’s always bringing up your future wedding, or does he ever spontaneously mention it? If it’s the former, you might want to have a little talk with him sooner rather than later: “Honey, living together is going really smoothly, don’t you think, which is why I think we need to set a date. Here’s a calendar and a pen.” He’ll either agree or stall. Either way you’ll know. Better to find out now than in six more years. You’re not being unreasonable to want a legal commitment, and he’s being unreasonable if he withholds it from you. I don’t care if it sounds super retro: I’m a total feminist, which is why I believe women need to protect themselves financially, which they tend not to do if they are living with men in the hope of matrimony. At least keep your assets separate if you are going to be living together, and be sure to see his credit report before the wedding.
Hey Julie – just a quick thanks for calling me (and my guy) insane! I hope you won’t be offended if we disagree, and respectfully point out that it is possible to make a serious commitment without being married, and that being married is no t a particularly good way to protect assets, and that it isn’t particularly feminist to lay down what is essentially an ultimatum with regards to marriage.
As far as I can tell, Celebrate’s problem is not that she is supporting a bum she hopes will someday marry her, it is that she and her guy are happy and committed, but she is, for some reason, fixated on the latest Modern Bride. She has asked for help on cooling her obsession with bridal websites, not with dragging her man to the altar.
@K. – I agree with this, too. Besides mentally reminding myself to be at least as kind to myself as I am to acquaintances, I often invoke a couple of mantras, for lack of a better term: 1) The world’s not going to end [if X happens/doesn’t happen at Y time], and 2) It could be worse.
Implied with those is the notion that most things are fixable. :)
@ Perf – ((hugs))!
Have you ever read any zen stuff? A big emphasis on zen is being in the moment… the acceptance that you cannot have any affect on anything that has already happened. You can learn from those things, and accept the lessons. But expending the energy you have right *now* on perseverating about things you could have done differently *in the past* wastes the energy of now, and produces nothing positive. Sars’ idea is good – learn from what you did or did not do, make a note of it, and get on with now.
The Tao of Willie is a really great book for mulling over these ideas in a really accessible way. The Anxiety and Phobia workbook mentioned above is also really great, in a do-it-yourself CBT kind of thing.
Celebrate: Propose to him now (Yes You Can). Don’t set a wedding date – think of it as something that would happen in a couple of years. That should take the psychological edge off without throwing a lot of wedding stress in. And, you need to know.