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The Vine

The Tomato Nation advice column addresses your questions on etiquette, grammar, romance, and pet misbehavior. Ask The Readers about books or fashion today!

Home » The Vine

The Vine: October 9, 2003

Submitted by on October 9, 2003 – 9:44 PMNo Comment

Hello, Sars — and Un-Dad:

As a veteran of fourteen years of financial aid woes — myself, plus seven siblings, eight cousins and many friends — there are a few things about financial aid Un-Dad, and Jan, need to know.

1. If they didn’t file taxes, you say, “Did Not/Will Not File.” There’s a box to check for this. I promise.
2. If the parents did not file becuase they did not NEED to file, then Jan will automatically qualify for aid.
3. If the parents NEEDED to file and didn’t, it’s tax fraud, and they will go to jail. But Jan can go ahead, file her FAFSA as in #1, and get aid anyway.
4. If Jan is over 23, or will be over 23 by the time she starts school, she doesn’t need her parents’ FAFSA and can use her own information.
5. If they want to make things difficult, Jan can appeal the university she plans on attending. Call the office. They’ll answer.

I’ve known several people to pull off the get-married-to-avoid-FAFSA thing. Mostly friends who were planning big weddings in the summer, but didn’t want to have to re-apply as a married couple — re-applying for a change in status is a colossal pain in the ass. So they had a quiet civil wedding and the big bash later. One couple got married for the same reason Un-Dad proposes, but unfortunately someone reported them. It is fraud, and you get screwed.

$10,000 in Student Loans — and that’s as an undergrad


Dear Loans,

Thanks for your input.

It’s also worth pointing out that, in most states, your spouse is the default responsibility setting for everything from medical decisions to probate to debt.And the state doesn’t care why you got married; neither do credit card companies or insurance investigators.

It’s just a bad, ooky idea all around.


Oh Mighty Sars the Rock Show Queen,

Given your infinite knowledge about rock show etiquette, when do you see fit to tell the people around you at a concert that their behavior is inappropriate?

It never fails that my husband and I are surrounded by idiots when we go to concerts. We’ve never had to despeeyack our shoes, unlike you, Sars, but I’ve once worn somebody’s clumsily spilt beer (note to readers: Seeing Shane McGowan and the Popes is the concert equivalant of an Irish bar scene. Guard your drinks appropriately). I’ve got thousands of examples of rude, completely annoying behavior I’ve had to observe concert-going but I’ll use the most recent example.

So we’re in assigned seating to see Zwan in concert, an event I’ve been looking forward to for months. It was a great concert, except for the Northern Californian equivalant of a Jersey girl who sat behind us. Picture it, a gum-smacking, high-heel-wearing loud-talker who decided that right in the middle of Zwan’s set was a perfect time to conduct a conversation with a friend she spotted three aisles away, at the top of her lungs! She talked loudly through the whole concert, sang to every song so unbelievably out of key that I sometimes winced in pain, and then when I decided to give my husband an innocent peck on the check during a sweet song, she kicked our seats intentionally. Now, we didn’t say anything and ignored her the best we could throughout the whole thing. And we didn’t let it ruin the concert because we had enough snark material about this chick after the concert to keep us talking, but it still grates.

So my question is, when is enough enough? Where exactly is the breaking point to politely tell the morons annoying you that what they are doing really grates? Or are you just supposed to grin and bear it no matter what the circumstances? Given that you’ve been privy to the same sort of crap at rock shows, I thought you might have an intellectual opinion on the matter.

Thanks in advance,
Crowd-weary concert-goer


Dear Weary,

Well, the problem, as always, is that it’s a rock show, and you have to have realistic expectations for it and for the behavior of the (frequently drunk) people attending it.But I think you do have the right to speak up when a fellow concert-goer…

…drowns out the music you came to hear.Screechy McGiggles can gossip all she wants at an Upper Crust show, or a stadium tour; if she starts in during an Aimee Mann set and you have to strain to hear “Ghost World,” you can ask her if she’d mind keeping it down.This also applies to singing.Annoying and off-key is one thing; deafening is another.

…consistently violates your personal space.Genuine violations do not include standing next to you, standing in front of you and being taller than you (a girl actually asked me not to do that once…whatev), brushing past you to get closer to the stage without saying “excuse me,” or moshing in a mosh-appropriate venue.Dance moves whose spastic flails threaten to give you a black eye, outright shoving, seat-kicking, the throwing of alcohol, moshing at a 10,000 Maniacs show — you have the right to call attention to that stuff.

…engages in an illegal activity that makes you uncomfortable.PDA, while tacky, does not qualify here.Drug use does.Ask them to please move.

A polite request to quit it, whatever it is, is certainly within your rights…but understand that it will often go unheeded, unless pained allies near you in the crowd decide to back you up.Whatever sociological principle it is which states that people believe their behavior doesn’t “count” if they don’t know the witnesses to it personally is operating at a factor of ten at rock shows, and you have to set your irritation threshold a lot higher going in.


Sars,

My issue is somewhat difficult to explain, but in essence I do not appear to
feel much, if anything, on an emotional level.I believe I live a
reasonably normal, productive life — married, no kids, good job, eccentric
but essentially rational family.I have a partner I find intellectually and
physically attractive.I enjoy her company and find her intelligent and
witty.But when other people talk to me about love and other emotional
interactions with their loved ones, it is something I cannot relate to.I do
not believe I feel any of the emotions they have described.

Recently, the husband of a family friend died.She was very upset, and I
could see logically why this would be so, but all I could think was, “These
things happen.”I wish I could say this without sounding callous but I am
genuinely puzzled as to what else I was supposed to be feeling.After some
thought on the topic all I could come up with is that, whilst unfortunate,
death is inevitable.After all, we could all walk in front of a bus
tomorrow.

This experience is repeated elsewhere in my life — watching the events in
Iraq, I found myself intellectually able to analyse that it is probably a bad
policy decision to go to war there, but I don’t connect with the feelings of
horror from people around me about the actual violence and loss of life.It
is a war.Violence is one of the consequences of war.It is also not only
what people perceive as unpleasant emotional reactions that I do not
understand either.Another friend recently completed her PhD and was
extremely happy.She came over to our house and had dinner with us.Her
whole manner confused me.Isn’t the completion of this sort of thing merely
the means to an end?Isn’t the objective of starting something like this
finishing it?

I am aware I am probably coming across as mentally unwell.The very few
people I have discussed this with, and then only superficially, seem to
think my reactions imply some sort of chemical or neurological imbalance or
some kind of serious mental health issue.They have suggested I go and see
a psychologist or psychiatrist.Personally I do not think I am mentally
unwell.I seem to function in the world readily enough.Do you think I
should do something about this situation and if so, what?

Yours,
Emotionless


Dear Emotionless,

Back in college, a friend of mine responded to the news of my grandmother’s death by quoting me actuarial statistics on the average lifespan of American women, and reminding me that Grandma had had a longer life than most.It’s a royally insensitive remark coming from most people, but coming from that guy…well, it’s just his way.I had come to understand by that time that he didn’t have the tools to express compassion the way most of us understand it, but he tried his best to care with the tools he did have.

You sound a lot like him, and “mentally unwell” isn’t quite accurate.It’s not an illness, exactly; it’s a failure to grasp emotions like love, grief, or pride, and I would try to explain why your reactions to the situations you’ve mentioned aren’t quite appropriate, but…I don’t think you’d really get it.Yes, you could have Asperger’s syndrome or another variety of high-functioning autism, but even if that’s the case, you can’t really treat those conditions.You just learn to live with them, and so does everyone around you — which is the real issue, from where I sit.The way you describe your wife sounds like a line of the HAL 2000’s dialogue — does that bother her?Do people find you frustrating to deal with in emotional situations?Have close friends, or your wife, expressed to you that they find you cold or distant?

It sounds to me like you do understand the appropriate reactions to the situations you’ve described, even if you don’t genuinely feel them, and as long as you don’t actually express “sentiments” like “death is inevitable” to a person who’s grieving a death, I don’t know that you need to seek treatment; I don’t know that a treatment exists.It’s probably worth looking into if it’s something that bothers you — you might schedule a few sessions with a therapist and see what he has to say.

I imagine, though, that you are what you are and that’s that.Just try to remain aware of how the way you are might affect the people around you.


Dear Sars,

Like pretty much everyone who writes to you, I think you’re hysterical and
that you give good advice. I’m a 20-year-old girl, and I’ve never kissed a
guy, never been on a date, never had a male friend. Also, ever since I was
five, I’ve been regularly beat up, teased, and had my personal property
destroyed by the guys in my school. They would always say that they were
beating on me ’cause I was a geek and that I was hideously ugly. I tried
reporting this to my teachers, but all that would happen is that the boys
would be yelled at and then they would get madder at me.

This continued until
I reached junior high and I changed schools. The same thing proceeded to
happen at this school until about midway through high school. The only way
that I could make it stop was to imply that they were flirting with me, which
would upset them so much that they would leave me alone. Now, though guys
don’t beat me up anymore, I usually get hostile reactions from guys that I
meet. They make insulting remarks about my physical appearance, choice of
conversation topics, and the like. My female friends have noticed this and are
confused by it, so I know it’s not just me being paranoid. As a result, I
feel nervous when I’m around guys and I don’t like being touched. This is
starting to affect my professional life. I’m an aspiring actress, and I’m
tired of being told by acting teachers/directors that I’m talented and pretty
but just not sexy enough. I think because of my anxiety about men, I have
difficulty expressing my sexuality. I feel that this is something I need to
deal with now, which is why I’ve come to you.

The thing is, I want to know why so many guys seem to be angered by me, and
why no guy has ever indicated that he found me attractive. I’ve always been
interested in things like sports and video games and I’m a good student;
maybe that bothers guys. I’m a bit sarcastic, but not so much so that it’s
stopped me from having many fantastic friendships with women.I know that
all guys aren’t aliens connected to a giant Mother Brain that causes them to
think as one, so I must be doing something to contribute to this situation. I
just don’t know what it is.

My best friend, therapist, and mother are the only ones that know about all
of this. They’re all great people, but the only advice that they have is that
I should just concentrate on other stuff and the right guy will come along.
This kinds of misses the point. First of all, aside from this, I’m happy with
my life. I have a job I like as a nanny, and I have lots of great interests
and friends. Also, I certainly don’t want to get married right now. All I
want is to be able to get along reasonably well (as in non-violently) with
most guys that I meet, and to be able to have a physical relationship with a
guy that I like. I think if I could accomplish those things, then I wouldn’t
have such a hard time conveying “sexiness” in an audition. I just don’t have
the foggiest idea how to go about doing any of this. I’m hoping you have some
thoughts. Thanks just for reading this, it’s not terribly easy for me to
write about.

Sincerely,
Bruised in the Big Apple


Dear Bruised,

I really don’t know what to tell you.Yes, some guys do find it bothersome when girls like baseball and Tekken and smarting off to them, but many more guys either dig it the most or don’t much care either way.So, either you happen to have gone to school with an abnormally high percentage of boys who have sociopathically low self-esteem, or something else is going on…but I can’t begin to imagine what.Not getting asked out is one thing, but getting beat on is entirely another.

I don’t want to tell you that it’s based on something you do, because 1) I don’t think it’s productive for you to think that, emotionally, and 2) I don’t think it’s true in the first place.I mean, if the shit started when you were five…what the hell kind of vibe does a kindergartener put out to bring on physical abuse from her peers?Now you probably give off a flinchy aura of “please don’t hurt me,” but after the bullying you’ve gone through, I think that’s an appropriate response.

So, stick with the therapy.Enjoy the good parts of your life, and trust that the one part that’s not functioning will get started eventually — that you’ll figure out what’s going on, and that you’ll meet nice guys and make friends with them and smooch some of them.

It’s a mystery, but given time, you’ll solve it.Have faith.


Dear Sars,

I am writing both to you and to Miss Manners on this one, because I dig
y’all both like double-wide graves, and would imagine different and useful
answers from the two of you…

After the death of my father two months ago, my mom and bro and I have all
found that the mourning is actually more acute now, our perspectives having
cleared up after the initial confusion.Mom’s church family, colleagues of
my father’s, friends and neighbors new and old have been extremely generous
with us, and I have been at once honored and humbled to see the graciousness
Dad’s kindness has engendered in those who will miss him most.

Unfortunately, not all the church family have apparently been able to
understand what we are going through.Mom’s been a member of the choir for
thirty years or so — but, during declines in his health and Dad’s eventual
hospitalization, Mom “took time off” to be with him.Both before he died
and 0- as I have found -0 since, the Minister of Music has pressured her to
rejoin the choir over and over again.Just this week, she and I met him by
chance in a restaurant, and he smilingly enjoined her to “come on back, it
is time!”Now, not only is my mother still in pain, but she happened to be
on her way the very next morning to go take care of my 93-year-old grandma
(out of state) for three weeks.I smiled with some restraint and explained
to Music that he was going to have to wait at least that long for her
return.In honesty, though, I would like to see Mom take as much time as
she really does need before rejoining the choir.

My brother’s and my concerns about this make Mom rather defensive of Music,
but I find his persistent approach unkind and insensitive at best (and
positively unchristian at worst).It is difficult to make a joyful noise
when still choking on sorrow.

I want to write either to him or to the church asking for forbearance during
this difficult time, which may not be “over” quite according to Music’s
expectations.No fire or brimstone, just an explanation of the way we are
all feeling right now, and a reasonably stated request that he kindly shut
up.

My question to you — should I skip this altogether, given the fact that Mom
would be mortified if she ever found out I’d done it?Or should I go ahead
and write?(And by the way — when I say she’d be mortified, she would also
likely flay me alive for questioning the church she puts all her faith in,
even when they ride her like a nickel pony.)

The thing is, I really intend anything I put “out there” to be constructive
— for the good of the congregation.I think that the pastor and Music both
need to examine the way they are serving individual needs…and sometimes
bulldozing over them.My instinct is to write both, so leadership is aware
of of and can reflect on the effect this brand of “ministering” might have
on their flock.I don’t imagine Music’s m.o. has ever been examined
critically, and really think it is far overdue.

I’d appreciate your thoughts.Thank you so much,
Bereaved


Dear Bereaved,

I’m sorry for your family’s loss — but this is your mom’s battle to fight if she wants to, and it doesn’t seem like she wants to, so stay out of it.

I understand that you want to protect your mother from the insensitivity of others, but I also think that circumstances have made you hyper-sensitive to this kind of thing.I don’t mean that in a dismissive way at all; I agree that your mom shouldn’t have to go back to choir if she’s not ready, and that it’s not really the Minister of Music’s place to say when “it’s time” for her to do that.It’s annoying.But it’s your mom’s choir, and your mom’s call…and I don’t think you’d get as much out of calling for a quorum on the MoM’s professionalism as you might think you would.

In other words, I understand with your reaction, and I sympathize with it, but I don’t think you should act on it.

[10/9/03]

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