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The Vine

The Tomato Nation advice column addresses your questions on etiquette, grammar, romance, and pet misbehavior. Ask The Readers about books or fashion today!

Home » The Vine

The Vine: September 25, 2001

Submitted by on September 25, 2001 – 9:44 AMNo Comment

I felt like I should comment on the problem that Lise is facing with her mother, as I have been in her mother’s situation.

She says that she and her family “did not have a chance to know this child.” I understand that.But let me assure you that her mother did know.From the time I knew that I was pregnant with my first child, I named him, talked to him, sang to him — felt him to be absolutely my child, whether born yet or no.When I miscarried, I definitely felt the loss of my child.It infuriated me when people would say things like, “It wasn’t even truly alive yet!” or, “It’s not as bad as losing a REAL baby.”For me, and for Lise’s mother as well, our babies WERE real.This is NOT “different from another death.”

It took me a LONG time to recover emotionally from my miscarriage.It took professional help and the patience of true friends.I do agree that Lise’s mother would certainly benefit from this.But Lise has to be supportive and accept that her mother will only “move on” when she is ready.It took me almost seven years to learn to cope.Even now I am starting to tear up just writing this.I remember screaming at my less sensitive friends that NO I CANNOT JUST GET OVER IT.I would ask Lise to be patient with her mother, and to keep in mind that her mother will always grieve to a certain extent. When she has found her way up from this depression, she will remember who was there for her and who was not.Thanks for hearing me out.

Hawaii


Dear Hawaii,

I’m so sorry that you had to go through that.

I didn’t suggest that Lise’s mother just “get over it”; I believe I acknowledged that it’s not something she’ll ever really “get over.”But she does need to “get over” the obsessive behavior, because it’s not helping her or anyone else in the family.The woman has other, living children.I don’t mean to diminish the love she feels for her lost son, but celebrating his birthday is not healthy, period.It’s time for Lise’s mom to get help in letting go a little bit.

But for the record, I can’t believe people said those things to you.Just in case there’s any doubt among the readership — that’s horribly inappropriate and insensitive.


Hey, Sars.You rock, et cetera.

I liked your Vine response to “Unwanted Attention,” but there’s an additional element I’d like to mention: pepper spray.If G
doesn’t instantly back off at the yelling — which is conceivable, as he obviously doesn’t feel threatened by high-school girls —
a shot in the eyes may help get the point across.

An even better possibility is the electric “stun gun,” if they’re legal where UW is.The arcing display is very intimidating, and one good jolt will down nearly any human opponent.

Despite the fact that I’m a male, I’ve experienced the indescribable ick factor of being groped on the subway.One morning on the 6 train, some dude put his hand on my crotch and starting talking like a bad porno movie.Yelling didn’t faze him, probably because he was about twice the size of anyone in the car, so I had to inflict physical harm to make him back off.Most young women don’t have the ability to do much damage bare-handed, so IMHO it’s never a bad idea to have a non-lethal weapon close to hand.(A gun actually isn’t as useful, because its deadliness means you’ll be more reluctant to use it.With pepper spray, even if you accidentally dose some guy who meant no harm, you know he’ll recover in a little while.)

I know this may seem like overkill in UW’s case, since her parents are in the house, but it’s better to be safe than sorry.Even if yelling for the ‘rents is enough to cool G’s jets, there’s always the chance that something bad will happen when they’re not around.

Anyway, I’ll quit rambling, now that this mail is twice as long as it needs to be.Your site is great; keep up the good work; and kudos on the cool TN shirts, because I just washed mine and it didn’t turn my socks pink.

Brian in St. Louis


Dear Brian,

Thanks.I’m glad I can entertain, while at the same time maintaining the integrity of your whites.

On most of the other things you say, I have to disagree.First of all, mace and stun guns are illegal in a lot of places.Second of all, weapons like that could get turned around on Unwanted.And third of all, as I said in my response to Unwanted, nine times out of ten, sleazeballs like G count on the fact that the woman isn’t going to speak up and make a scene.Any reputable self-defense or martial arts class teaches you that your first line of defense is your voice — yelling “no,” screaming for help, drawing attention to yourself.Many young women have problems doing that for whatever reason, but it almost always gets the job done.

I’m also going to have to take issue with this: “Most young women don’t have the ability to do much damage bare-handed, so IMHO it’s never a bad idea to have a non-lethal weapon close to hand.”I don’t want to get into an argument over greater upper-body mass, and I don’t have self-defense training, I don’t work out, blah blah blah — but if a man tries to rape me, he’s going to sustain a few serious injuries in the attempt.True, many women aren’t as big (or ornery) as I am, but if they’ve got fingernails and a righteous rage, it’s on.

I mean, sure, if she can work the throwing stars, good for her.But let’s start with the basics.That’s not behavior women have to put up with, and they should tell the men in question exactly that.Loudly.


Sars,

Another far-from-New-York reader here (London, UK). I’ve not been seeing too much public grief because of the World Trade Centre thing, but then, I’m having a baby on Wednesday, so I’m not seeing much.

But it does remind me of the massive Diana cryathon, a few years back. The entire country went completely bonkers mourning her, threatening to lynch people who stole teddy bears and flowers that had been left out for her, swearing off tabloid journalism forever, et cetera. For no reason I could work out. I mean, it was sad she died. But there were crowds of people crying in the street. It was insane.

The rare bits of news coverage that weren’t just maudlin shite pointed out something interesting. A lot of these people were really mourning about something other than Diana. Lots of people said things like “my dad died last year, but I didn’t cry about that.” It was a kind of public festival of mourning.

So Freeze’s annoying coworker may well be dealing with some more intimate grief, in a displaced sort of way. The giant tragedy gives him an excuse to collapse and deal with something he’s been bottling up.

Joy


Dear Joy,

Wow, that’s tomorrow.Good luck!

And you bring up an excellent point.Maybe Bob’s channeling grief over something else; other readers have theorized that perhaps Bob is depressed over and above the recent tragedies and that the attacks may have triggered an episode.

Perhaps Mr. Freeze could gently suggest that Bob talk to a grief counselor or PTSD expert, just to get perspective on what’s happening.It can’t hurt.


Hey Sars,

I’ve become addicted to your column since the summer started.You are definitely one cool chick with a head on your shoulders. I think you kick ass and even cause me to utter the occasional chuckle while peeking through DHAK while I’m pretending to be working.But I have come to ask of your advice, since I can’t wrap my head around this one. A little bit of background to explain where I come from: I live in no-man’s land, hick central next to the ocean on one strip of concrete.Needless to say, it sucks, and I avoided coming home for any reason that did not involve a holiday.But I would frequent my hometown on the summers for a period of time to ease the anticipation of the parents who missed their daughter.

The problem starts here: my friend Bob and I dated through high school. After that, we went our separate ways to university. Every time I would come home, someone would plant the idea into Bob’s head that hey, he should ask me out.He would profess his love at the most inaccurate and just plain wrong times.I would either be dating someone or just out of a really bad break-up.Okay, that, and I have zero, nada, zilch sexual or even slightly curious feelings for this guy.1) He’s always disagreeing with anything I say. 2) He’s got backhair (okay, okay, I KNOW that’s shallow and mean, but c’mon, I am SO turned off by backhair). 3) I met my soulmate this summer.

My point? I’m getting there…the soulmate part is the clincher. Because when I came home from my fourth year University this summer, I was determined to get over my broken heart and live life as a happy mentally healthy and joyous individual.And it worked. I have restored so much confidence in myself, and just had a great time.Then I met Joey. Things clicked, we’re connected and just totally into each other.The underlying problem is that I haven’t been able to bring myself to tell Bob about Joey.Bob was away for about three weeks when true feelings started to emerge between Joey and me. I feel really bad because now that I’m home, I always see Bob.But never in our entire friendship have I ever been able to tell him about the guys that I date.I know that Bob still thinks he has feelings for me, but this guy makes me feel terrible and stupid. Anything I say I need to present with a friggin’ document with footnotes and a bibliography.On the other hand, I did refuse his admiration earlier this summer because I wanted to “find myself” and “be single/on my own.”And then I met the most wonderful person, who makes me feel like I’m the most important thing to him, and he doesn’t demean me in any way.

So, Sars, how do you break it gently to someone who cares so much about you, but you simply cannot return the feeling, and that there is someone else in your life?Mind you, the last time I managed to say the wrong things to Bob, he didn’t talk to me for a year.We’re talking sen-si-teeve here.I’m sure that once the opportunity does arise, I’ll find a tactful manner to explain my situation to Bob, but that type of open conversation had never been an issue between us.I want him to understand that I’m not the one for him.Any suggestions?

Trying to find the words…


Dear Trying,

Not only do you not like Bob That Way, but, from the sounds of it, you don’t really like Bob…at all.It’s bad enough that you dated him when you had no interest; now you’ve let him dictate how you conduct your other relationships.Enough already.

Tell him straight out that you have a boyfriend now, a guy you think is The One — but that entirely aside, you do not want to date Bob.Ever.You haven’t in the past; you won’t in the future.You will offer him your friendship, if he can accept that and that alone, but he must reconcile himself to the idea that the two of you have no romantic prospects.Period.

I know it’s not pleasant.I know the mere thought of that conversation makes you cringe.But the “tactful manner” clearly isn’t getting it done, and if “that type of open conversation [isn’t] an issue for” you, I don’t really understand why you consider him a friend in the first place.Bob may react badly and not talk to you for a year, or ever again, but that’s his choice.Either way, it’s past time for you to confront this.

[9/25/01]

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