The Vine: September 8, 2010
Hi Sars,
You’ve said that we all want to have our exes admit it was all their fault and apologize — I just got that letter and I am not sure what to do about it.
An extremely condensed background — I had a super shitty childhood — one neglectful parent and one abusive, neither of whom like me much and one of whom I haven’t seen in years. So when I was in my early twenties I got back together with an ex boyfriend from high school who knew my life story and after several years I ended it. Basically, I started dating him when I was still a mess, got myself together and then realized he was the only thing wrong with the picture. This was more than a year ago.
He was fundamentally a selfish person. He always came first, no matter what the situation. He also never said “I love you.” He only used the word “love” in conjunction with his parents and seemed to think it would be a once in a lifetime thing for him — that his wife or fiancé was the only one getting that. I had a low expectation of love towards me and let it go forever, and it may actually not have ended up being an issue (I really do think he actually loved me and so did everyone else) until he stopped acting like he loved me. He just got more and more selfish and less and less mature, and after going through a period of supporting him continually (for months and months!) in a difficult situation, I had the exact same situation occur — and he disappeared. Like “not returning phone calls” disappeared. I ended it.
I got a letter from him (via Facebook, setting the bar for romance as low to the ground as you can get it) telling me that he loves me, that he always loved me, that he has no idea what he was thinking letting our relationship go the way it did, that he knows I can never forgive him, that he hopes I can forgive him and if I ever want to see him again that he would love to have dinner — it was long. And that he is leaving the country in three days.
It was hilariously melodramatic — he said he has no idea where I am or what I am doing, which…I mean, we have mutual friends. He can see me in pictures on THEIR Facebook pages. I bet he could tell you where I was yesterday, if he sort of tried. And it really seems like he thinks the breakup was all about the lack of “I love you” or a proposal, which it really wasn’t. The letter was very much, “I worked through my commitment issues!” No.
I don’t really feel anything about this but irritation. My best guess is that he realized that we aren’t getting back together. He is leaving for a masters program in another country and that is about two years, and it’s already been over one. Now there is less chance we will bump into each other at mutual friends’ events or in our hometown — because he won’t be there. I believe he did love me, and he probably still does (he is the kind of person who attaches permanently to things and people, even if he doesn’t show it). Nothing in his letter suggests he has grown up at all — there was no concrete plan for how he saw this going, he hints and hints but doesn’t risk asking me to come back to him.
The real problem? A response. I had moved on before we broke up, emotionally, and I was blown away by the love and support I got from my friends and family after our breakup. In a way, it was the best thing that happened to me, because it made it impossible for me to pretend nobody loved me at all and I was so unloved blah blah blah. It feels like way more than a year ago. I did write the bitchy response, but of course I trashed it. And then my friends and I were joking about how the only acceptable way to deliver this was to show up like in a romantic comedy — and it occurred to me he might.
He called on my birthday and left a short message. Then he sent an emotional Christmas card, filled with how he hopes I am doing wonderfully, etc. And now the letter. I’m concerned that when he comes home at Christmas, he’ll show up and try this out in person. I…would not like that.
How would you respond to this? Would you ignore it and hope for the best? I know him enough to know he will always hope we end up at least friends, and I am just not interested. I don’t miss him, and even if I did, the fact that I haven’t responded to his overtures and he ignores this does not make me feel generously towards him.
Also, we do have mutual friends and the bump-into-each-other issue just got dramatically more awkward — how would you handle that if and when it happens? My friends can’t be objective here, and most of their suggestions would land me in jail. Also, I kind of worry that my lack of emotional response to an out-and-out declaration of love means something unsavory about me. It doesn’t, right? I hope?
Would rather avoid the last scene of a rom-com, because it won’t end like they do
Dear Rom,
Don’t respond. I don’t know every detail, maybe he really is sincere, blah blah, but it sounds to me like the classic “if she’s still talking to me/willing to say we’re friends, it means I didn’t really act like a shitheel, and I don’t have to sit with knowing that I did” maneuver.
I’ve had that pulled on me several times, and I can actually sympathize, as far as seeing where it comes from; it’s hard to admit to yourself that you’ve behaved hurtfully and/or that that may have permanent consequences. But it’s not really on the person you hurt to sign off on your behavior, and to keep asking after a certain point will only compound the impression of you as a self-centered ass.
This isn’t a lesson he’s likely to learn; your non-response should come from a place of not caring and not wanting to engage, versus thinking he’ll go, “…Ohhhh,” because he probably won’t. But a non-response is still your best bet. You don’t want to encourage him; you don’t want to interact with him at all, really; you don’t hate him, but you’re done.
If you run into him and he chooses to make an explicit issue of it, take him aside and say exactly that. “I appreciate what you expressed; take care of yourself.” End the conversation. Mutual friends should understand that this is how it goes sometimes, and that you’ll remain civil but “friends” is too much to expect.
You don’t want to deal with this, so: don’t. Nobody else is owed anything here.
Hi Sars,
I have a cat-related question for you and/or the collective wisdom of the Nation. Our cat, Noah, is 11, and was fairly recently diagnosed with either leukemia or lymphoma. We don’t know which one he has; since the treatment is the same either way, we figured we’d better just get on with getting some medicine into him instead of trying to determine the specifics.
ANYWAY. At some point in the early stages of his illness, before we knew what was going on, he peed on the tiled bathroom floor in the bathroom where we keep his litter box. We have tried everything we have to get that clean — OxiClean, Nature’s Miracle, Bac-out, vinegar and baking soda, Rug Doctor carpet cleaner for pet pee. We’ll clean it, he’ll go a day or so without peeing there, and then decide he doesn’t want to make the jump into the bathtub where his box is to pee, and just…pees on the tile again.
He still uses his litter box the vast majority of the time. We scoop daily and scrub the bathtub where the box is kept frequently — once a week or so. The cancer meds are working, and he gets a full blood workup every couple of months — there’s nothing going on there. Other than the cancer, his health is excellent. As best as I can figure, we just haven’t managed to get the Smell That Only Kitties Can Smell out of the tile, so he thinks it’s acceptable to pee there. It’s not.
Do you or the Nation have any suggestions as to how we can get the smell out of the bathroom tile, short of ripping up the bathroom and remodeling? While I’d love to do that (I hate that bathroom for a variety of reasons), we don’t have the money for it right now. The only thing we haven’t tried is diluted bleach — would that work, do you think?
Noah’s Mom
Dear Mom,
I don’t think he’s peeing on the tile because he smells the old pee. I think he’s doing it because he’s getting older, he’s ill, and “he doesn’t want to make the jump into the bathtub.”
Swab down the bathroom with Murphy’s Oil Soap in water; let it dry; fog the offending area with Citrus Magic; let that dry; put one of those Rubbermaid litter-catching trays on the tile; and put the litter box on the tray.
Stop making him jump into the tub. I understand that it’s nicer aesthetically if you can hide the litter behind a shower curtain, but…you know, it’s a bathroom. Creatures poo and pee there. Save Noah a step and put the box on the floor.
Good luck! Let us know how he’s keeping.
Tags: boys (and girls) cats etiquette
My family’s old cat had inappropriate urination problems until we changed from a deep, covered litterbox.
Making it easier to pee in the right place meant switching to an open, shallow box with a generic incontinence pad under it, but it solved the problem.
Noah’s Mom – I had a similar situation with an older cat, and yes, make it easier for him. If he pees in the same spot, put the litter box there (or barring that, at least put down newspaper to soak it up – easier than cleaning every day).
Rom,
Blessings no, don’t respond. Pretty much everything he’s been doing has been to elicit a response from you. Don’t give him one!
Also, don’t worry too much about a further in-person response from him. That’s actually more effort than he’s willing to give. If he does respond, In Person, say exactly what Sars recommendend. More likely, however, he’ll just send more mediocre notes about you, him, work, the moon, etc…
This is an entire Notice-me-please-I-need-constant-attention situation. It has been for a long, long time. Deep, deep down you totally know this. Please don’t let him further manipulate you.
Hey Rom-Com: Ignore him. There’s not going to be a declaration of love, because it’s not love. It’s manipulation & control & mourning the loss of the relationship. I went through the something similar with an ex. Take the high road & ignore it all.
If you run into him & he wants to have the emotional, drawn out conversation, tell him that you’ve already said everything you had to say.
It’s hard to deal with the fact that a pet is getting elderly. This summer my eleven year old cocker spaniel decided she can no longer make the jump up to sleep on the foot of our bed. So we bought her a squishy dog bed to make the floor more comfortable for her and trip over her here and there. Next step: a ramp for the steps to the door dog.
I agree with Sars, Mom – Noah is probably not feeling up to jumping, rather than peeing in the bad way.
An alternative you could try, if there just. isn’t. space. to have a litter box on the bathroom floor (I have one of those bathrooms; if I had a litter box on the floor, it would be in the middle of the long, narrow aisle by the tub down to the toilet, and human pee-ers would have to step over it, cos there’s nowhere else) is to get a couple of those small, cheap plastic step stools, and put one beside the tub and one in the tub, so he has a way up and down. Maybe put the one in the tub on shower-flowers, or rubber-tip the feet, so it doesn’t slip under him. Or sturdy blocks or boxes, whatever you can squeeze into available room. Just a little something to help him out, if he’s feeling too tired to make the leap.
I haven’t used this for litterboxes, but I did at one point have an sickly cat who needed to be fed off the floor to keep other cats from hosing up her food before she got it, and while she couldn’t leap up to her table in one go, she could make a climb.
Best wishes for Noah’s continued good health.
Thank you, Sars, I was kind of thinking the whole time “uh, maybe just put the box on the floor?” Glad to know you agree!
(And maybe this is just me, but I find keeping a well-maintained litter box on a tray on the bathroom floor ten times more savory than keeping it in the bathtub. Is that something people do? What if you have a guest who needs to use the shower? Ew!)
But I am sorry the kitty is ill. :( Poor little guy, hope he pulls through!
Rom – Ignore the letter. And if he starts up in person, tell him you’re so happy he’s in a better place emotionally, you are too, moving onward and upward, let’s not dwell on the past, you wish him well, blah blah blah gentle rejection-cakes.
@RomCom:
Agreeing with everyone that you should not respond, plus one thing: you keep justifying his behavior by saying, more than once, that he “really did love you.” I get the impression that you feel obligated by that, so here it is: who cares if he loved you? He did not treat you, he does not treat you, the way you should be treated. (Keep in mind, a whole lot of wife-beaters out there also really love their wives, too.) Love is patient, love is kind, love does not excuse shitty selfish behavior.
Rom,
What lefawn said. Everything he’s doing is to elicit a response, any response, because a response means, to him, that you are paying attention, and that part of you cares enough to respond, even if it’s negative. I have a friend who’s ex-boyfriend does the same, THREE YEARS after they broke up. It took her two years to realize that responding, even with “Stop contacting me!”, just fed his desire to hear from her. Ignore him.
Yeah, I gotta say, “litter box on the floor of the bathroom” sounds much better to me than “litter box in the bathtub where you put your bare feet at the very LEAST.” I have to admit, I had the “Is that a thing people do, putting a litter box in their bathtub?” response.
I’m not putting you down or anything, I’m saying, “I don’t think putting the box outside the shower/tub should be thought of as any LESS savory than putting it in there.”
I’m glad your cat is responding well to treatment. We recently had our cat (who was a baby) die from lymphoma. We did everything we could for him medically, but it wasn’t enough and we finally decided that he couldn’t suffer any more before it got worse. I think anything you can do for him, anything at all, to make his life easier/more pleasurable now will be worth it, even if there is some additional mess or unpleasantness. If we could have had our cat even a tiny bit longer, even if he was going to the bathroom all over the place, I would have been happy for him to do it, because that would have meant he was still alive and with us.
@Mom: We had a very old cat (19 years old) who just could not make it all the way downstairs to the kitty litter anymore. He would go in the hallway and in the living room so we simply put litter boxes there. That worked perfectly for him; for us it was gross but he was our kitty. What else could we do? When he couldn’t even do that, we would pick him up and put him in the litter till he was done and then put him back on the bed (which was covered in plastic and old quilts since sometimes we didn’t get to him in time). He made it another year before he passed away and even though it was gross having kitty litters almost on every floor, it was worth it cause he was a family member. I think placing the litter on the floor will solve the problem. I hope Noah pulls through. I’ll keep my fingers crossed.
@Noah’s Mom: I agree that’s it probably an age issue rather than a smell issue. If it is because of odor, though, could you try to cover up the floor with a fake retiling of the bathroom? We have our litter boxes hidden in a large coat closet in our rental home, but we aren’t thrilled with the idea of litter boxes on carpet because one of my boys will pee on on the litter that get kicked out of the boxes. (We do want some of our deposit back, after all.) We put down one of those blue waterproof tarps to protect the carpet and took a large piece of cardboard, cut it to the size and shape of the closet, and affixed cheap bathroom tile to it. Now we have a fake tiled floor in there that we can sweep up when they make a mess, and even if they do pee on it, we will be able to remove the “floor” and replace it without leaving any urine odor behind.
And can I just add that I love the pet-friendliness of the Nation? People who take care of sick kitties, people who place homeless kitties, people who tend to the comfort of elderly kitties…y’all make me a little weepy when these issues come up in The Vine. I recently read a FB post from someone I knew years ago who was having a cat put to sleep because he peed outside of the box and her family didn’t want him peeing in the new house they moved into. She was “devastated,” and people comforted her by reminding her that she was “doing the best thing for the cat.” I had bad dreams and hugged my cats and cried and imagined Sars ripping her a new one for seeing euthanasia as the best option. Thanks, TN readers, for reminding me that there are compassionate pet owners out there.
Noah’s Mom – my cat had the same problem and we just placed puppy pads all around the litter box. Easy to pick up, very absorbent with no jumping or climbing involved.
I’ll chime in with I have a similar situation with my 15 year old cat (including the health problems, though my cat has been cancer free since they removed her cancer riddled spleen 3 years ago). I agree with what everyone has said – it’s not the smell, he’s just getting older.
Everyone’s suggestions are good ones, so I won’t reiterate, but I wanted to say that I have had endless litter box issues with my cat, and have tried many things. Personally, not many helped. My cat still occasionally pees outside her box (usually only when she’s upset about something – like a dog in her house), and will almost *always* pee on anything left on the floor near her box. She also has stopped using the box to poo at all. I’ve tried everything – no lid (this doesn’t work so well, as she tends to not aim, and she still doesn’t use it), new litter, new location, shallow box, wide box, deep box, more than one box, moving the box, using “attraction” additives to the litter, clay litter, clumping litter, crystals, changing everything, changing nothing, the list goes on and on. I clean every morning and evening, but it doesn’t matter. Nothing. ever. helps. So… I’ve learned to just live with it. Luckily her box is in a spare bathroom that isn’t used, and she never goes any further than about 3 feet from the box (all tile), so it doesn’t inconvenience me too much to go in there every day and pick up her “gifts”.
I only say this because it might be a behavior change that won’t go away (my cat’s started after she got sick)… it does happen. You may want to prepare for that possibility.
@JenK, that Facebook thing is seriously awful. I just had to put my kitty down- she was almost 13 and had been with me since before almost everyone in my life, since she came to me in college- because two vets and a very experienced tech were saying, “It’s inhumane to keep her alive any longer.” (Note: she hadn’t been suffering for more than a few hours- she had something unknown wrong with her for several weeks but was okay if a little low energy, and we were working to figure out what was going on. That day, she just basically drove off a cliff. Couldn’t breathe, brought on by…not much, that we can tell. So it’s not like I prolonged her life unnecessarily, which I also think is cruel.) I know the aggro that is a kitty who won’t or can’t use the box, but I can’t in a million years imagine putting a cat down for that.
That fake tiled floor is a FANTASTIC idea, one that I will be swiping in the event of any porr-aiming or elderly cats in the future.
Rom,
I recently got a letter from my ex-boyfriend. Long story short, I dated an older man (24 to my 19, but what a difference in life experience!) who dated me for nine months despite the fact we had nothing but attraction and fondness going for us. Then he proceeded to get me pregnant, tried to get me to not get an abortion, and then blamed me for the abortion and dumped me but did that let’s-be-friends-but-really-we-aren’t-friends-oh-hey-I-am-dating-already crap. Then we sort-of dated for a summer, and then we tried to be friendish for two years, and eventually I realized it was pointless. Anyway, years later (and one illegitimate baby for him later) he sent me this “you were the best thing that ever happened to me” letter. I told my friend we have in common she knows nothing about what happens in my life, and I didn’t respond, because Holy Jesus, I did not want to open that moron of worms. This was, oh, nine months ago, and I am thrilled to continue the silence. Anything I responded with would have been viewed as encouragement. Better to let things rest. Also, bear in mind that it is not a given you will have to deal with him again. You don’t know where either of you will be for Christmas, really, and it may not even be an issue. Good luck!
Hi Sars and Nation,
Thanks for all the advice! I guess that it truly hadn’t occurred to me that Noah might not want to deal with hopping into the tub to pee in his box since he still jumps up and around to get to all his favorite sleeping places – the tub’s not a giant leap compared to the kitchen counter-top of fridge-decorative shelf in the kitchen trifecta, you know? Plus, he still poops in the box (thank goodness for small, stinky favors!), so I just assumed the pee issue was laziness.
HOWEVER, we’re more than willing to move the box out to the tile, and will probably give it a shot this weekend, once we’ve had time to do Sars’s recommended cleaning procedure. Murphy’s Oil Soap would NEVER have crossed my mind, honestly. We’re also going to have to do some thinking about how to keep the Beagle and the baby out of that bathroom – the baby’s easier to manage than the Beagle, but we’ll figure something out.
For those concerned about keeping a litter box in the tub – it’s the tub in our spare bathroom, it’s not the tub we use regularly! Since we never have overnight guests (not enough room), and we’re still bathing the baby in his little tub in the kitchen sink, the litter tub is never used by a human unless we’re scrubbing out the box. I don’t keep a pristine house, but we don’t stand around in litter, either!
Thanks for all the great ideas and well-wishes for Noah’s health, too. As long as the chemo and steroids keep working to keep his cancer is under control, he’s sticking around with us, pee on the floor or not.
As always, Sars and the Tomato Nation are awesome.
Noah’s Mom
I hope everyone who’s ever written to the Vine with a “OMG HE/SHE’S MY SOULMATE AND I WILL LOVE HIM/HER UNTIL I DIEEEEEEE” letter reads the first screed above. Love can certainly last, but thinking your high school/college SO is the only one you will ever ever care about until the end of time tends to be–unrealistic.
Yes, they may have really loved you, but that didn’t preclude shitass behavior, and intensity of emotion is not a reliable barometer of longevity.
@Rom – everything Sars and LeFawn said. I also suspect that your irritation lies in the fact that you KNOW this isn’t a sincere apology or reaching out to you. Looking at his actions as you’ve described, he’s pretty much made it clear his apologies aren’t designed to heal any of the wounds his behaviour caused you. It’s about you making him feel better. It’s just more of what you endured in your relationship with him-making his feelings the priority over your’s.
If his words and actions were sincere, I’m sure you would react a different way. You haven’t-so trust your instincts. I think that is a part of the problem-he’s manipulative and these kind of people make you doubt yourself as their words and actions don’t match up/are confusing. They persuade you not to trust your gut feelings. I think your reaction is absolutely correct. Keep on not responding. He can figure stuff out on his own. Afterall he left you to handle the fallout all by yourself. He sucked up enough of your time and attention and doesn’t deserve one more iota of it.
@Noah’s Mom – Everything Sars&what everyone else here has said. Time to put the litter in a shallow tray on the floor of the bathroom. Just wanted to pass on my heartfelt wishes that he keeps responding to treatment.
@JenK – Yep, I’m with you, TomatoNationers rock. Not only is the pet friendliness that I love but the fact cats are treated with the same care as dogs get (well, you know, when dog owners get it right) I’ve been traumatised by similar conversations with people or reading things you read on FB(my stomach dropped when reading your post) and I will admit, I come here to get a bit of sanity and assurance that the world isn’t completely f*cked up. So thankyou Sars and everyone :)
@JK: Hee, “open that moron of worms” is excellent, and one of my new favorite phrases. Thank you.
@ JenK,
That was horrible of your friend’s family, but I’m not surprised. Out of a lot of cat owners I know, very few understand cats, and very few keep their cool when the cat is having problems. The part that is shocking is that they found a vet who was willing to euthanize without a concrete medical problem.
Most vets will not euthanize a healthy animal because of the owner’s unwillingness to deal with a behavioral problem, unless that behavioral problem has to do with aggressiveness (and even then some vets will try drugs before they give up on a pet). They’ll tell the owner to go home and try several things until something works. How awful that this did not happen here!
@ Rom,
what everyone else said. If he had truly learned from the experience, he would have stopped after his apology seemed to fall on deaf ears (rightfully so), and told himself he’d just use the “lesson” he had learned next time around. This is not at all about you, it’s about him trying to convince himself that he’s a nice guy who made a few mistakes, not a self-serving, self-involved twit.
Don’t give in. If you do run into him, just be curt, polite, and firm in telling him “Sorry, I don’t want to be friends.” If he doesn’t get it then and keeps trying to pester you, I’d pull out the “s” word (“I’m sorry to say, but you’re turning into a stalker, which is making me deeply uncomfortable. Please don’t try to contact me anymore, or I’ll have to take appropriate actions to keep myself safe”). Harsh? You bet. But it might make him back off when everything else didn’t.
@ Jen S 1.0
“Yes, they may have really loved you, but that didn’t preclude shitass behavior, and intensity of emotion is not a reliable barometer of longevity.”
That is so, so ON. I am using this. Beautifully summed up, especially the “intensity of emotion is not a reliable barometer of longevity.” A lifetime of wisdom in ten words.
@Rom
I had a similar email from an ex once. I responded bitchily and told him to never contact me again. He wrote back to say that the fact that I had responded at all meant I still loved him too. Long story short, I had to get a restraining order before he finally got the message. I concur with the Nation; don’t engage your ex, period. It’s not going to be worth the aggro.
Thinking of you, Sars, and Don. Happy Birthday to him, wherever he is.
As a child we had a free-range (in one room) housetrained rabbit who always *always* jumped into his sleeping cage to do his business. When he was 6, he suddenly started having accidents outside the cage. He’d still jump up onto the bed if you whistled for him, so we thought it couldn’t be a physical problem.
That was until I saw the poor little guy try to jump into the cage and bash right into the wire front. We don’t know if it was age, joints, coordination, or vision, but a shallow tray of cedar chips next to his cage solved the problem and he lived happily for another year.
And this is a personal issue, of course, but I agree with some of the others that a litterbox in the bathtub creeps me out. The same way people who store pots and pans in their oven creep me out. Just: NO.
@Louisa: What’s wrong with storing pots and pans in the oven? I don’t do it myself but can’t see how that would be dirty?
It’s not dirty, it just feels like hoarder-style insanity. Like you know this space in your house (bathtub, oven) is meant to remain clear to use it for its intended purpose, but what the hell, you’re going to fill it up anyway.