The Vine: Turkember 26, 2008
Hey Sarah,
Here’s a doozy for you.
I am the unofficial lead secretary in a smallish office — unofficial because I’m on the same level as the other secretaries, it’s just that I’m the only one who isn’t too chicken to speak to management.There are about a dozen secretaries on our hallway, all of whom are women except one.There are two single-stall women’s bathrooms on the hall and one single-stall men’s bathroom.
The dude is not the issue — he handles his what-have-you in the men’s bathroom without incident.
One of the women (Smelly Poo Sue) stinks up the bathroom on a regular basis; once, twice, sometimes even three times a day.It’s not a hygiene issue and she is a fantastic employee — she just has very smelly poo.Given the nature of the single-stall bathrooms, it has definitely known to all on the hallway that it is this particular woman who is the offender.
I really could not possibly give less of a damn about this.I mean, Jesus — it’s a bathroom and people aren’t baking cookies in there.It’s the other secretaries that are in a tizzy.
It started about two months ago with one of women coughing and gagging dramatically after entering the bathroom a few minutes after SPS and the other women cackling like it was the funniest thing ever.The gagger later sent me an email requesting a formal complaint be made about SPS.
I posted annoyingly cutesy signs inside all of the bathroom stalls reminding the staff to be considerate and use the deodorizing / disinfecting spray after every visit.I figured that would do the trick — I wasn’t targeting anyone in particular and yet it would get the message across.
But not so much.SPS did not take the hint and continued smelling up the joint.The secretaries became more and more melodramatic about entering the bathroom, shouting, “I can’t!I just can’t!” while stomping back to their desks in tears.So I called a meeting.Got everyone together to discuss other things and included a reiteration of the sign’s message — “Hey you guys, please use the spray.The end.”
Not wanting to allow things to get any more out of control than they already were, I spoke to my managers.He was embarrassed and flummoxed and suggested that I contact HR.I sent an email to our HR people (who are headquartered out of state) to give them a heads-up as well as seek their advice.
They have not had to deal with an issue like that before — hygiene-related issues are a lot more cut and dry because generally speaking there are policies in employee manuals stating that staff have to come to work clean and neat.SPS is both of these. Again, it’s just the poo.
I suppose I stumped them because they told me that they had no idea what to do and that in their opinion, I’d done all I could.They also made it a point to say that I should not pull SPS aside since it could be viewed as some brand of harassment, particularly if she has some sort of digestive disorder.
The other women then began purposely excluding SPS from lunch and other off-site activities.After I gave them a brief talking-to they begrudgingly let SPS back into the group.But the problem is far from resolved, since the bathroom entrance and exit dramatics continue.
My job is great aside from this weirdness.I don’t want to lose my job over demanding a courtesy flush or telling these other women to shut the fuck up and use the other damn bathroom already.I don’t know what to do aside from hand this back to the manager and HR to insist that they deal with it.Any other ideas?
Apparently I’m Also The Unofficial Poo Police
Dear Poolice,
You shouldn’t have to deal with this — because there shouldn’t be a “this” in the first damn place.As you pointed out, it’s a bathroom; if you want it to smell like cookies, install an oven, but otherwise, your co-workers need to get a life, and some manners, pronto.It’s just the smell of poo, and their histrionic, and rude, reaction to it has probably not gone unnoticed by SPS.
I can understand how you might feel obligated to address the situation, both in your unofficial role as lead secretary and because the whole thing is so childish and unnecessary that you want it stopped.But if these drama queens will make a tearful stink (no pun intended) over the smell, then exclude SPS from lunch, your pointing out to them that the drama-queenery is making them look like the assholes isn’t going to get you very far.And you really shouldn’t mention it to SPS, who, if she’s pooing three or more times a day, probably does have a medical condition, so it’s a subject best broached delicately, and by HR, not you.
Tell HR that you want it handled: you want SPS told to use the spray; and you want the Melodrama Club told in no uncertain terms to shut the fuck up about the smell, behave politely to SPS, and do their jobs instead of wasting your and HR’s time forcing you to mediate this.Then tell HR that you understand if that isn’t possible, but regardless, you recuse yourself from dealing with it; it’s not in your job description and you don’t want to hear about it anymore.If one of the other secretaries has a complaint, you will furnish her with an HR contact and tell her to use it; if SPS is still getting excluded from outings, you feel sorry for her, but you will not intercede.You have work to do, this isn’t it, and HR can do as they see fit, but you can’t help them.
Get permission to pass the buck, and to tell everyone on-site to tell HR and not you.
Hi Sars,
I have a cat question on which I’m hoping to get your input. My husband and I were seriously considering adopting a cat from our local humane society. However, yesterday we discovered that they make people adopting cats sign a contract saying that they will not have the cat declawed.
I was really surprised by this — I know that some private rescue groups require this kind of thing, but I wasn’t expecting it from the county humane society. The two cats we currently have are declawed, and since we can’t promise that we won’t have the new one declawed as well, we’ve given up on the cat we were considering. (And when I talk about declawing, I mean front declawing.)
I suppose the solution for us is to either find a very laid-back cat who mostly keeps his or her claws sheathed, to adopt a cat who’s already been declawed, or to adopt a cat from someplace that won’t require us to promise that we won’t have the cat declawed.
But, I’m wondering, what is your perspective on the declawing issue? Growing up, the cats my family had were always declawed, and, again, both of our current cats are declawed, and they seem to do just fine. I understand that we’re having the cat altered, and scratching, for cats, is a natural thing to do. This is not a furniture issue at all. Instead, it’s a personal, “I don’t want to end up scratched and bloody every time I interact with the cat” issue. For example, the cat we were considering at the humane society is very playful, which we liked, but I, my husband, and my sister all ended up with bloody scratches all over our hands (but it wasn’t malicious at all on the cat’s part — she was very sweet and purr-y).
On the other hand, I picked up another cat and was playing a bit with him, and I couldn’t even tell if he was already declawed or not (he’s not). I’m also somewhat concerned about bringing a cat with claws into a home with our declawed cats.
Thanks!
A.S.
Dear A.S.,
I am against declawing.It’s an invasive procedure; the solution is out of proportion to the problem it’s supposed to solve; and unless you plan to de-tooth your new cat also, well, you know, the average cat is kind of pointy.It’s a carnivore: it has sharp teeth and it pounces on shit.That’s how nature designed it.
The average baby is kind of grabby.Yanks on necklaces, yanks on boobs, yanks on all four shiny yummy-looking earrings in my left ear.You want me to cut the baby’s hand off because of that?Or should I wear shorter earrings with quick-release catches…or learn to intercept a little grabby hand…or maybe just tolerate the occasional yank, because it’s a baby and it’s not that big of a deal?
I don’t mean to suggest that you want to amputate baby hands, but honestly, a cat scratch now and then just isn’t that big of a deal, and you have so many alternatives to declawing, I just don’t think you can justify it by saying you don’t want any ouchies when you play with the cat.(And see above re: biting.)You can get those Soft Paws claw tips things to put over the cat’s claws; you can play with the cat using toys that have a handle or a long string so your hand isn’t endangered; you can adopt a cat who’s already declawed; you can trust your current cats to adapt (I see seven fights a day, and have for eight years, and maybe three of them got decided with the front paws — it’s all back-feet pedaling and neck-nipping).
Getting a cat fixed is one thing; it prevents overpopulation and the resulting starvation, as well as the more cosmetic annoyances like spraying.It’s for the cat’s benefit.Nothing about declawing benefits the cat, and if your declawed cat gets out, gets scared or in a fight, and tries to run up a tree?Neh eh.
I mean…it’s a scratch.The cat isn’t shooting at you.Yeah, it stings for ten minutes; you’ll get over it.Do not declaw; it’s selfish.
Hi Sars,
This is completely embarrassing and really, really TMI, but I really do need some help (well, recommendations, anyway). I suppose I could go to a gynecologist or a dermatologist, but I spend enough on medical bills already and I just can’t afford an additional consultation fee for something that’s…well, cosmetic. (But still important.) I read the Vine a lot and you and your readers are always awesome and helpful, so…here I am.
OK, here’s the deal. I’m Indian (from India, not Native American) and I have the body that goes with that — specifically, the body hair. I deal with it by waxing, except for one place — down there. It hasn’t been an issue, but now I want to do something about it.
I don’t want to wax my pubic hair off, nor do I want to shave. I’ve tried shaving and didn’t really like it, ditto with trimming. The problem is because the hair is so thick, it grows back really spiky and, well, prickly. What I really want to do is just trim regularly and keep it under control and hygienic, but in a way that doesn’t leave me itchy and uncomfy.
Any ideas about how I should go about this little grooming ritual? Or maybe your readers could help?
Thanks so much!
Sorry for the overshare
Dear Overshares Are Our Specialty,
Beard trimmer, my friend.Get the kind with the attachments that let you choose how long you’d like to leave the…”beard,” and then you can straighten up down there without fear of nicking yourself, itchy ingrowns, or any of that.It takes like two minutes, and you can make a mental note to address the topiary each month after you’re done your period (or more often, if you like).
You might like this Wahl model, but pretty much any of the ones at the drugstore will do the trick.
Tags: cats health and beauty workplace
Wow, just when I’ve begun having an inner debate about whether or not to continue waxing…the Vine’s been my LIFE for the past couple weeks, I swear!
I never thought of the beard trimmer–I always figured the choices were shaving, waxing, or natural. I’m not comfortable with any of those for various reasons. Plus, waxing is painful, expensive, and the whole process and concept make me feel a bit silly at this point. And I don’t feel very sexy when things are out of hand down there. As my boyfriend stated simply: the sight of a vagina turns men on. That makes sense to me, and is a good enough reason to indulge in some liberal trimming (porn star-level waxing aside).
For those of you who use the beard trimmers: what are the cons? How does the finished result compare to waxing (as far as neatness and uniformity), and does it really take care of the bikini line?
I can’t believe I never considered this middle ground!
I also worked for a vet. They really don’t want you to see the procedure and if you could you’d NEVER do it. Cats often wake up bleeding, thrashing, and yowling. It’s too dangerous to comfort your cat in the way you’d like to imagine they would in that circumstance. They’re busy with other patients now, your cat is loud, and no one wants to get bitten. So they just drug it again and throw a towel over the front of the cage. Meanwhile your cat is slamming itself against the sides of the metal cage until it passes out again. This can go on for quite while. By the time you pick up your cat two days later, you’re told he’s doing “just fine” and you’ll believe it. I’ve also heard of cats having permanent nerve damage afterwards. This is a barbaric and hopelessly outdated practice. Other countries have outlawed it, the US is behind.
I grew up with multiple cats in our home, all strays we picked up, and one of them was an older cat who was declawed when he came to us. He fit in fine, and was certainly able to defend himself and fit himself into the pecking order in no time. So if that’s the issue, it really doesn’t hold water – the pecking order will be arranged, and maybe a clawed cat would seem to have an advantage, but it practice – not necessarily.
When you adopt a cat, you adopt the whole cat, in my view. And yes, the only problem the declawed cat ran into in our household was an unfortunate habit of getting himself treed, since he could use his back claws to climb up – but needed his front claws to get down. He was apparently a purebred, possibly even a former show cat who somehow ended up in the adoption system – his former “parents” probably thought he’d never have occasion to use his claws, so what’s the harm? And yet, there he’d be, yowling from atop yet another tree, waiting for my grumbling dad to get the ladder in position to carry him back down to safety.
My point is that cats have lives long enough that the unexpected happens in them just as it does in any life, such as yours. Do you want to make your cat disabled in the face of many of the possible futures that may befall him/her, futures that may be beyond your control to determine?
Ugh! Now I’m even more against declawing than ever. My fiance wants to declaw my three fully grown cats but I think hearing about the bolt cutters might change his mind…
Regarding the kitty claws, I used to be really nervous about getting scratched, too, but in most cases, the cat probably won’t use its claws against you very often. Your primary concern, IMO, should be the cats you already have, and if you’re really worried about what a non-declawed cat might do to them, you can adopt a previously declawed cat.
However, the second cat you described, which had its claws but mainly kept them to itself, sounds like a good direction to look.
I would like to put in a vote for just having good manners with your cat.
If you always respect the cat’s handling boundaries it won’t swat you out of annoyance. Sometimes they just get overstimulated after a lot of petting, or they just don’t want to be petted, or the way you’re petting them is somehow annoying. So watch how they react and stop it. Cats are really good at telling you how they feel with body language and meowing. Paying attention makes things a lot nicer for you AND the cat.
Also, if you don’t want your hands scratched it’s best to never, ever wave your hands around in a game of keep away. The cat will win unless you’re a ninja and then it will think its okay to swat your hands for fun. Make it clear that hands are not a toy by telling the cat no in a way that is distinct from your usual friendly tone and stop playtime immediately if the cat still craves flesh. Buy a wand toy and have fun from a safe distance.
I am not especially chemical or fragrance sensitive, but I still ran out of a public bathroom stall with my pants still unbuttoned because I couldn’t breathe after the automatic spray had gone off right above me. Seriously, HR does not need to take this to the level of chemical warfare.
@Poolice At the risk of stirring the (ahem) shit, it sounds like SPS is on the verge of, if not being, harassed at work. Maybe she needs to go to HR and complain about the rest of the secretaries openly mocking her use of the restroom. I’m guessing she’s not going to do so being you’ve been nominated as the secretary with the backbone, but from what you describe, either SPS is pretty socially clueless or she has to be pretty mortified from the treatment she’s recieved. I mean, yeah, she could use the deodorizing spray, but the behavior of the rest of the women sounds way more appalling to me.
I was always against declawing and now that I know it means removing the first joint I’m ultra against it. When I was born someone asked my mum if she was going to get the cats declawed “so they won’t be able to hurt the baby”! WTF? Although, now that I think about it, one of my first memories is of being whacked by her tabby Aunty Mari, but I think I’d probably been experimenting with how much you could pull her tail…
My own cat had to get ingrown claws clipped last week. She was not impressed and went for the vet with her hind legs. That was pretty funny.
Poolice, you may feel, completely justifiably, that as Sars said this just isn’t your problem, and in that case, follow her advice. Just for the record, though, HR people HATE this kind of shit (pardon the pun). Stopping pettiness and middle school clique behavior should not be their job either.
Its not what they went to college for.
If you do want to stop it, I think what you should do is the next time one of the Melodrama Club starts their shit, pull them aside. Tell them in private that their behavior is rude, cruel, and unprofessional, and you are giving them fair warning that the next time you see it, you will inform their manager and request they be disciplined. Then if it continues, do just that. It won’t make you popular, but they brought it on themselves.
The US may not be so much “behind” on the declawing issue as that we have an active Audubon Society and a treaty on migratory birds to back it up, which does contribute to the issue. Domestic and escaped felines roaming around kill huge numbers of songbirds every year, many of them endangered. It’s the equivalent of taking away the bird’s natural habitat by introducing a town, forcing them to live in the few areas left, and then introducing an extra predator to the mix. And you’re paying for the predator’s vet bills.
I’m not saying “kill the cats, long live the birds,” but I just do want to bring up that before you judge how inhumane people are for declawing their cats, take a moment to consider the havoc that your pet wreaks on the endangered species in your backyard, and the fact that your cat is not exactly a natural predator in that environment.
On the declawing: My parents always had their cats declawed, and I did too with my first few cats (thought it was just what you do). Then I found out more about the procedure, and vowed never to do it again.
I explained the procedure to my parents, who were both horrified and deeply repentant that they’d had their own cats declawed. As time went by their pets aged and died, until all the cats had passed on.
My dad was later diagnosed with prostate cancer, and sunk even further into his life-long depression. My mom wanted to get him a kitten to keep his mind off things and cheer him up. The kitten was sweet, docile, placid, beautifully tempered… then my dad had a pulmonary embolism after his surgery and had to be placed on heavy doses of blood thinners.
Suddenly the tiny scratches, hardly even worth noticing before, actually *were* something fairly serious, because they wouldn’t stop bleeding. I bought a pack of SoftPaws for them to use, but it was “too much hassle.” So to my dismay, they took the kitten to be declawed. He now is affectionate to and calm around my dad, but if anyone else even walks past him, he attacks them, using back claws and teeth. (Oh, and after the three-month treatment, my dad stopped the Coumadin, so excessive bleeding is not even a problem anymore.)
My mom just can’t understand why that “sweet kitten” turned into such an “evil cat.” There’s no way to prove it was the declawing, but I believe that was it, or at least part of it.
On the other hand, the cats that I have had declawed when I was younger – none of them ever even showed any sign of noticing that anything’d happened. In all three cases, I dropped them off at the vet’s in the morning, picked them up that evening, they were groggy till mid-day the following day, and then picked up like nothing had happened. No limping, no puzzlement, no signs of pain, nothing. Nor did any of them became aggressive or mean like my dad’s cat has done.
Summary: No two cats will respond the same way; still, declawing is pretty brutal and should be avoided.
And to Agnes: I *am* pretty chemical sensitive, and have never had a problem with the sprays my employer uses. It might take a bit of trial and error to find a scent that’s pleasing and not overwhelming, but the ones I’ve experienced have been MUCH less gag-worthy than what happens when someone empties half a can of Glade in the room… and you can still smell the offensive odor underneath it all.
Margravine, I used to work in a shelter, and that’s absolutely been my experience. Kittens will be scratchy no matter what, because they have a lof of energy, but grown cats, in general, are pretty good. If you can find a way to let them out during the day time (perhaps supervised, or in an enclosed area), then that will help them let off some steam. Also, like Sars said, the scratches really aren’t bad. If you wash scratches with cold water immediately after they occur, that will help you minimise any marks or noticeable scratching.
Another great big NO on the declawing debate.
Can you imagine if someone came along and ripped all your fingernails off? Or chopped off all your fingertips??
Even the most hellion cats can be redeemed without this horrible ‘surgery’. Your humane society or SPCA probably has behaviorists who can help.
Off-topic, but the Vine with the declawing question that Sars linked to above has some great letters and GREAT responses. Pop-culture feminism, word usage, hole-y stockings… a red-letter day for the Vine, that was.
re: Toxoplasmosis and kitty risks to pregnant women – I must clarify a few points. The speed of that vet assistant to turn into an OB and dispense with medical advice to a pregnant lady tells me that she also probably believes that cats try to steal milk from a baby’s lips and smother them while they’re sleeping, too.
For the record – toxoplasmosis could certainly be found in a cat’s nails after using the litter box – but recall the OCD-level cleaning habits of most cats. Toxoplasma does not become infectious until 1-5 days after it’s shed in a cat’s feces. This is why cleaning the cat box is such a big deal – and doing gardening, where the parasite can also be found.
If a pregnant woman were to get scratched by a cat, or as in my case, got an entire noseful of litter dust while changing the litter prior to learning I was pregnant – there is a simple blood test to check for the antibodies. And in fact, one can determine if she already has the antibodies. Treatment is available if it is detected.
Finally – a toxoplasmosis infection will not kill a fetus or infant. It can be serious later in life – and certainly should be treated seriously – but per the CDC, “most infected infants do not have any symptoms from the infection.”
Ohhh – the anti-kitty words when a baby’s involved get me all in a lather.
And the Pooolice? Shame on them. They are small little ladies, and I feel badly for SPS. Although, if I were her – I would bring my own spray or something at this point!
@A.S. – Investing a bit of time and money (and I really do mean just a bit) in making sure your cat’s claws are trimmed goes an incredibly long way toward both your and your cat’s happiness. I’m very against declawing, mostly in the way that… you’re causing unnecessary pain and deformity to your cat (I don’t get the vibe that that’s your intention – or even the intention of most – but it’s the reality). Regardless of how well-adapted to home life your cat is, if something bad happens and your cat goes missing, having claws is a major survival tool, whether you’re in a more urban or more rural area.
@Overshare – I second Sars – get a beard trimmer or a hair trimmer or something similar. Wahl is an excellent brand, and you can choose anything from “no – I’ve decided NOT to smuggle a small squirrel in my underwear” to “kiwi fuzz.” I use a Wahl hair trimmer to save money on haircuts (I keep my hair pretty short and I’m quite good at the mirror tricks) – just make sure to wash and oil after each use, and you’re golden.
I have 10, yes ten, cats. Eight of them are strictly indoor, two are “barn” cats that come in when the weather’s too hot or too cold or too wet. Not one of mine is declawed. Granted I don’t love my furniture and it’s old so I don’t care all that much if the get claws into it, but I do still trim claws on everyone once or twice a month. I don’t want to live in a total hovel. It’s not hard, most of them don’t mind it (though a couple swear like sailors at me). I figure that my guys live a damned good life, they can learn to put up with being handled for 5 or 10 minutes at a time without going postal.
As with training anything, start slowly, get the cat used to having his feet handled. Actually it’s a good idea to teach them that you messing with their mouth is ok too. At some point you WILL have to dose it with something. Makes life much easier for all in the end. With a little patience, a little firmness, and a good set of clippers it’s an easy job and no your cat won’t hate you forever.
I do understand that sometimes declawing is a last resort option, death or the shelter being the only ones left, but as as rule I think declawing is a terrible thing to do.
We got our kitty from the Humane Society nine years ago. We also signed the waiver to not have him declawed, not that we would have anyway. And thank god. Punkin has always been an indoor kitty, but he got out two years ago. He always has a yen to escape in the fall, and that time he succeeded and disappeared. For seven weeks. He was finally found miles away, digging through someone’s garbage. We live on the edge of a miles wide nature reserve, and he went through the woods.. He wouldn’t have made it without claws. I do believe that a lot of cats in shelters got there because they have a tendency to bolt for the outdoors. Which means the last thing you’d want to do with a shelter kitty is strip him of natural defences if they bolt again.
I also taught him early on to not use his claws on us (just held my hand over the paw when claws were extended). He’s one nasty little bugger when he wants to be, but he more often gets us with teeth than claws.
Thanks so much for all the suggestions, everyone: it’s nice to be able to get an open response to a question like mine without worrying about being inappropriate. I think I’ll give the beard trimmer method a try – I live in Canada, and I’ll see if any of the ones y’all recommended are available in drugstores around here.
As far as post-trimming procedures: some of you mentioned creams or oils? Ideally I’d love a cream/oil that softens the hair and makes the cut ends less sharp and bristly, if such a product even exists…like a conditioner, I guess? (Can’t believe I just typed that sentence…)
I was scratched by a cat at work (Animal Hospital) and almost died from a MRSA infection introduced through the cat scratch, after being diagnosed with a simple cat scratch disease. For those who say that cat scratches aren’t serious, you are completely wrong. Especially these days, when there are infections completely resistant to any current antibiotics, a “simple” cat scratch can lead to something much more serious. I’m now on a waiting list for a kidney transplant after my organs shut down because of the infection. It’s rare that a cat scratch can lead to something so serious, but I am living proof that, what’s simple and unconcerning to some, is a big deal to others.
I’m not saying that everyone should run out and declaw their cats…I have one with claws and one who came to us without. The declawed one, btw, goes outside and has zero issues getting up and down our trees, killing random small things (and leaving them as gifts on the porch) or defending herself against the random baddies in the neighborhood. On the other hand, the one with claws doesn’t scratch anything that she’s not supposed to and clipping her claws every week or so isn’t a big deal. That being said, if the cat that attacked me had been declawed, I wouldn’t be worrying about having to go to dialysis a couple times a week, and living with anti-rejection drugs for the rest of my life if I should happen to be lucky enough to get a new, working kidney. So…I guess I’m going with, I wouldn’t do it, but if other people do, that’s their choice.
Cat people: Speaking as someone who had two fingertips severed in an accident, that $h!t hurts like hell.
When I got my cat Bettie, the suggestion of declawing was made to me, but after what I went through, I couldn’t do that to her. I’d rather have my favourite grey arm chair be secretly scratched every so often then put my favourite furball through that kind of agony.
It’s been six years for me and I still experience regular pain, so seriously, if you’re considering this, imagine how a little animal, who doesn’t even understand what’s happened, would feel.
Overshare – I agree with the trimmers. Also, I read this a few years ago and it might help – use conditioner on the hair. I did it for a long time and I recall it making a softer difference.
Is it wrong to want an episode of “The Office” featuring Smelly Poo Sue and the stinky bathroom?
In response to Beth’s comment about migratory birds, above:
Cats are still very effective hunters without their claws. The way to reduce incidences of feline predation is not via declawing, but by reducing the number of cats (via spaying/neutering) and putting bells on the collars of outdoor pet cats.
A study (reproduced here: http://tiny.cc/4fzb6) published in 2001 indicates that bells on cat-collars reduces predation of wildlife by nearly half.
Wow, I am ever dying to try out Soft Claws. I couldn’t stand the thought of declawing, so our hardwood floors are scratched up but our kitties are happy and healthy.
I have a Chunky Monkey who, the second I squat down to clean the litter box, likes to uncloak from stealth mode and spring off my thigh on to the washing machine. 15.5lbs of springage, I might add. I constantly have streaks of claw marks across my upper thighs.
And he does it the second you sit down on the can, too. Oh, and if you bend over to pick anything up, he springs off your back (or just hops up and hangs out). So yeah, capping those back claws might be a good investment.
I’m completely against declawing as well. I’ve owned cats my entire life and have generally spent those cats’ kitten phases covered in scratches due to the I’m-a-big-scary-lion-and-you’re-a-wounded-gazelle game, but you know what? Who cares? Scratches hurt a tad, and you may lose some blood, and yes, it’s technically possible for you to get sick from a scratch if the bacteria gets in there, but unless you’re pregnant or have a weak immune system, so what? If you’re that afraid of being scratched, why would you want a cat? I can understand being worried about your declawed kitties, but if your main worry is that YOU don’t want to be scratched, it’s selfish.
I have two kitties now. One has very, very sharp claws that are either too long or just won’t retract all the way, so they hurt like hell when she jumps on my lap, but I just trim them. She hates it, but it takes 30 seconds.
The other cat is the sweetest thing on earth — loves everyone, very cuddly and purry. I don’t trim his claws because he goes outside. But I’ve completely deserved every single post-kitten scratch. Because I can’t resist that fuzzy warm tummy even though I know that touching the tummy leads to him holding my arm with his front paws and kicking with his back feet. The same is true for most of the other cats I’ve owned — kittens scratch because they don’t know better, but I’ve deserved like 80% of the adult-cat scratches I’ve had. Don’t fuck with the cat, don’t get scratched. Usually.
@Anne: You pluck? That’s … really hardcore. Ouch. I’m such a wuss I can barely pluck those little hairs under my eyebrows.
All kinds of declawing info here – http://tiny.cc/WMNpR
Also, just wanted to mention, my vet told me that pregnant women actually have a greater risk of contacting toxoplasmosis by handling raw meat than cleaning cat litter, which I had never heard before and my doctor certainly never mentioned.
I’m a New Zealander who currently lives in the UK. Until I became part of the Tomato Nation I had never heard of declawing. Now I have, I’m glad it’s illegal/unacceptable in both countries.
Our cat was King of the neighbourhood cats, He was put out every night, he’d beat the other cats up to keep them in line, and sometimes I’d wake to the yowling of somecat getting put in his place.
He didn’t scratch stuff in the house, because he had tree’s for that.
The only times I can remember getting scratched, properly scratched by this king beasty, to draw blood, were the times I stroked too far down his back. He’d been run over at age two and had a touchy-owey back ever since.
If you can’t cope with claws, you shouldn’t be having cats.
Overshare: I have an epilator, http://preview.tinyurl.com/67a4ue . I use the yanky epilator fittings for my legs, but for my lady-bits there is an attachment with a shaver for very close, and a clip on bit to cut about 5mm not at the skin. The 5mm attachement is my favourite, it’s just long enough to not be scratchy.
I’m with Julie; I had to have The Dumb Cat (I had four, all of whom have now passed on due to old age) declawed after a saga of household destruction going well beyond the occasional ploinky stretch on the carpet, and culminating in him digging a HOLE that he could CRAWL INTO in the arm of my chesterfield. Sprays, cayenne pepper, the lot, did not deter him – and he barely seemed to notice the procedure, and was tottering delicately along the balcony railing in his bandages the day I brought him home. (Before that, I tried the Soft Paws, and he spent a dedicated week doing NOTHING but biting at his toes until he’d removed every single one – which considering it cost fifty dollars for installation at the vet, did not work for me, even though he didn’t claw anything during that time.)
One of my other cats was declawed when I got her, and the other two were fully weaponed, and it didn’t seem to make the slightest bit of difference to their interactions. William rarely used his claws on anyone, even accidentally, and he was still the Alpha Male; Zozo was definitely Second In Command, despite the fact that her declawed paws with their furry Persian slippers were velvet-soft. And the Dumb Cat remained at the bottom of the totem pole with and without claws; he was just that dumb, if cute and stripey.
Scratching people, unlike furniture, in my opinion, is not “something cats just do”, if they’re integrated into the human family and you respect your cat enough to notice when you’re starting to infringe on its boundaries. I’ve only ever met one cat who scratched viciously, deliberately, and with intent to harm, and she was, in cat terms, antisocial and psychotic in almost every way. Kittens up to about a year will scratch more or less by accident when playing; the key is to make sure that you don’t ignore it “because it’s so cute”, and gently discourage the behaviour. (This is what makes otherwise sweet playful adult cats a bit scratchy – and even in a mature animal, you can train them out of it if you’re patient.)
What I’m saying is, yes, I made a decision to declaw a cat – because I was not rolling in cash at the time, and couldn’t afford another chesterfield, let alone all the other stuff he ruined, including, progressively, the baseboards in my rental apartment – but it’s not something I would do without a lot of consideration, and a good acquaintance with the individual animal – because it is a pretty drastic procedure.
I’m firmly in the “it’s cruel and unecessary and potentially dangerous to the cat” camp.
I’ve always had cats and have never had a cat declawed.
As kittens, it didn’t take my cats long to discover that using their claws on me was a quick way to make me stop playing with them – I never punished them for it, it’s what they do after all, but I pulled my hands away and stopped playing. They all quickly learned not to use their claws.
Yes, I have been scratched by my cats occasionally, either by accident while playing (only if they’re reeeeeally over-excited) or because I didn’t respect their boundaries. However I’ve had people play with my cats and ask if I’d had them declawed because they play so gently.
I have never even considered declawing — I just always thought that getting scratched occasionally was part of having a cat (one of mine has destroyed two whole carpets, but I don’t really care – she’s worth it and I kind of admire her determination to get her ‘project’ finished — she does it one step at a time till she’s finished the staircase). And without claws, you don’t get the amusement of watching them doing ‘handbrake turns’. One of my cats has claws that don’t retract properly, so after a few months, when she’s getting stuck to the duvet cover (v. funny) I take her to the vet and he trims them for free – presumably on the grounds that he makes enough profit on the ‘proper’ visits for jabs etc. Don’t do it…please!
Katrina, I wouldn’t be surprised if it was the neutering that solved your cat’s aggression issues, and not the declawing.
Beth, obviously we should think about the birds, but I don’t think declawing has anything to do with that. It seems to be mostly indoor cats that are declawed. Declawing an indoor-only cat isn’t going to save any birds, because the cat was never going to get near them anyway. It’s much more important for people to spay and neuter their cats so we don’t end up with strays, and to either keep them inside or make sure they wear a collar with a bell if they go out.
I’d like to add my vote for claw trimming. I have two eight-month-old kittens, and I’ve been clipping their claws since I got them. The most either of them will do is squirm and meow a bit — I’ve never been scratched or had to restrain them in a blanket or anything. I clipped all my past cats’ claws with little trouble, too. If you can get a cat used to it from an early age and make sure they never think of your hands as something to swat (whether in play or anger), you shouldn’t have a problem.
@ helen:
I am one of those girls who would never poo in public. When I was 30, I was diagnosed with diverticulosis and subsequently had three very painful bouts of diverticulitis within six months. I had 12″ of my colon removed soon after.
Because my internal makeup has changed, these days it is NOT optional for me to poo in public. I have to go when I have to go. I’m 34 now and I will live with this for the rest of my life – all because I was too embarrassed to poo. *sigh* :/
Poolice’s coworker may very well have some kind of digestive disorder, or perhaps has had weight loss surgery or another procedure that causes her to have to poop a lot. If I had a coworker who was in there 2-3x a day, I can’t imagine that not being the FIRST thing that came to mind, and not having a little sympathy for the woman, for god’s sake. Especially if there is another bathroom they can use (not that it would be an excuse anyway), I am just appalled at the grown-up mean girls’ behavior. I guess leaving it with HR to deal with is the only option, but man it would be hard for me not to go off and tell those women to grow the f up already.
Beth, IMO everyone should keep their cats indoors. Songbird problem solved. Yes, I realize there are situations where it’s OK for cats to go outside or where the cat will really want to be out–in particular when you acquire a cat that is accustomed to being outside–but IMO it is never optimal. Outdoor cats’ life expectancies are lower, and all kinds of bad things from accidents to fights to predators to evil people can happen to them. No cat of mine will ever go out if I can possibly avoid it. Yes, this is a hot-button issue for me…
On declawing, my cat is not declawed (we trim her claws regularly and rarely get seriously scratched) and I am horrified by it and would do everything I could to avoid it. But if it’s truly that or take the cat back to the shelter, I can’t say that it’s the worst option in every case. I don’t know. In the specific case mentioned, I would think the cat will grow out of scratching so much once it is no longer a kitten. But I also agree with other commenters that if having a cat who occasionally scratches is a dealbreaker, perhaps a different kind of pet would be better for A.S. Certain things come with the cat territory. My super-clean friends who have a non-shedding breed of dog would hate living in my house where there is cat hair all over and litter tracked throughout the upstairs even with frequent vacuuming, and scratched areas of the furniture. Conversely, I love my hardwood floors and the one time their dog was here he scratched them up and I thought “I could not live with that.” It just depends on what your tolerance level is, and if that tolerance level does not include the risk of (usually very occasional) scratching or the willingness to apply Soft Paws or trim claws periodically, then a cat may not be the best choice.
When my husband and I discussed getting cats he wanted to declaw them because they would be inside only and he didn’t actually realize what the procedure would entail. Besides pointing out all the stuff Sars mentioned (and our boy has escaped twice in the 3 years we’ve had him) I told him what declawing really is . The procedure involves removing the claw and the bone at the first joint, I told him we could do it to our cats only if he were willing to have it done as well, needless to say both our furballs have all their claws.
We clip their claws and occasionally get scratched but it’s not a very big deal. I’ve known many people who use soft paws (I was a vet tech in college and am finishing vet school so I’ve handled a lot of kitties) and they work great, plus you can order them in different pretty colors!
Geez. I wish SPS’s coworkers could spend a day in the locker-room-style sign shop I worked in during college… farting contests that rattled paint cans off the shelf were only the beginning.
My childhood cat was declawed in front and lived outdoors most of her long life. I was four when we got her and did not have a vote in the declawing decision or the outdoor living (she had long hair and fleas and was badly allergic to the toxic flea preps of the seventies, so my folks banished her to the yard and garage.) Saddest day ever was coming home to a missing cat, which we finally found cowering in a corner of the backyard.
She was a snotty, independent dilute calico and *never* wanted to be held, but she actually jumped into my arms, bleeding, then tried to run into the house she had not attempted to enter in ten years. She was so terrified she did not come out of the garage for three full days, not even to eat. We found out from a neighbor that some big loose dogs had cornered her while we were out and she could not get her old bones up the wall in time to outrun them. I don’t know how she escaped, but she pulled out a back claw in her desperate scramble up the wall (hence the bleeding.) Thank God she was no more than badly frightened and slightly injured. I escaped a lot of scratching as a young pest, but had she scratched me once, I would have learned to avoid the pointy end of the cat. Far better that, than what we might have found that day. (She died peacefully at 16 years old, by the way.)
A.S., a previously-declawed cat might be the right answer for you. Since it’s been done, and it can’t be undone, find that kitty and give her the loving home you’re already providing to the incumbent felines. Better with you than with someone who has dogs and doesn’t get that a declawed cat has special needs. Good luck with your search!
Just discovered this site while searching for cat scratching posts. Enjoyed it! As for the declawing, I’m against it. What if we applied that thinking to our own hands? Lop the tips off at the first knuckle. Save money on manicures, no more pesky broken fingernails. Ewww, huh! Wait, I know! Get Rovers legs cut off so he won’t run off! Declawing is mutilation plain and simple. Absolutely an overkill solution.
I’ve owned plenty of cats in my life and the only one that has been declawed is Princess, the one that currently owns me. Previously she lived with my stepdaughter who begged me to take her because “her other cats were bullying Princess and wouldn’t let her eat.” She came into that household pre-declawed only a few months previous. I figured it wasn’t a good match, so I said yes. Ha, Ha, Ha!
She quickly proved that a lie when she dethroned Georgie my resident cat within a few days. (They then went on to become co-rulers.) Princess was the best mouser! When she would go into stakeout mode I knew there would be a dead mouse very soon. And there was no moving her either. She’d hop right back. No claws and she had a perfect kill record. She’s closing in on 13 years, and her philosophy now is more “catch and release” to my dismay. I’ve half thought about making some clawed booties to up her advantage but I know she wouldn’t keep them on, and be insulted, too.
I’ve always had declawed cats… I got my two declawed because it was what I was used to. Still, I’m aware of how awful it is for them, and believe me when I say that there’s a lot of guilt there.
However…
I don’t anticipate ever being able to live in anything but a rental situation. And I have yet to find a place where the landlords to not REQUIRE cats to be declawed. There’s no negotiation as far as increasing deposit or anything, so as a renter there’s really no choice but to have them declawed or not be able to give them a home at all.
I suppose I could just lie… Which, when I get my next cat, I may do after hearing these awful stories of what the cats really go through. Ugh. If anyone knows of a way to get around the NO CLAWED CATS rules in the lease, please let me know. I’d really rather not put another cat through that.
@Lily: Yes, it was a great Vine, I was just thinking of that letter about Bust the other day.
And I thank Overshare for asking a question I’ve been thinking of asking myself. I have thick Italian hair, and thus a horrible bikini line. I usually don’t bother much with it, but a few years ago, when I actually did want to wear a bikini and I tried shaving for the first time, even with trying to soften the skin as much as possible, it left so many nicks and bumps that it was kind of pointless, since it looked about as bad as having hair. I thought I’d have to find some sort of shorts for when I do want to swim, but this may be the answer to my problem.
@poolice–with all due respect to ferretrick, this kind of, er, crap, is exactly what the HR people should be involved with. What those charming secretaries are doing could indeed be seen as a form of harassment, and it is not your responsibility, since you have no supervisory authority over them, to get them to straighten up. It’s been my experience that having the suggested “private chat” could backfire, and it would backfire on you. Without the support of HR, you’d be going out on a limb, and in this circumstance, are any of these players really worth it?
@A.S. – I think this is really a human and cat interaction issue. The real problem seems to be the scratches that A.S. and husband are getting when playing with the cat. The simple solution is to teach the cat that human body parts (hands, feet, whatever) are not playthings. NEVER play with a cat using your hand as the toy. Tell them that they’ve done something wrong when they pounce on human hands. This is what I’ve done with my two fully clawed cats. I cannot remember the last time I got scratched by one of them.
I will never understand why women have a probelm with the pooping in public. Yeah, shit stinks! We all do it. Get over it! Personally, I cant use the spray deoderizer because they make me cough and gag. The bottom line is these ladies are acting like 7th graders and they should be the ones getting the talking to from HR.
Sars,
I want to ask a Vine question, but can’t find where to send it — it’s definitely off-topic for this Vine — is “comments” the only venue for contacting you, or am I just blind/technically challenged?
A.S.-Here’s one more longtime cat owner to chime in against declawing. I decided over 35 years ago that my cats were more important to me than any upholstery or carpets, and I learned very easily how to trim the cats’ nails. Right now I have 4 cats. 3 of them came to me as kittens, and we wrestle every week or so to get the nails trimmed. If I only get a few toes done at a time, that’s still a victory for me. They have 2 scratching posts, which they use regularly. But, also, all my tee shirts, sweaters and sweatpants have holes or snags where they’ve hung by the front paws or propelled along by the back paws. And, they do sometimes claw holes in the plastic litter pan liner bag thingies, so I buy the toughest available of the liners.
Cat #4 was my Dad’s before he came to live with me. Dad couldn’t see well enough to attempt the nail trimming, so he had his cat declawed. Bad idea, and I argued strongly against it at the time. One result is that The Incredible Mr. Duzy Batz is a confirmed biter. Dad was hospitalized at least once for severe cat bite, and I’ve been chewed up pretty badly a few times myself. Now that I know exactly what Mr. Batz’ petting/holding/aggravated-by-noise/general-meanness parameters are, I don’t get hurt so much. And yes, I do love him anyway. He gets along fine with the other 3 cats, none of them have ever visibly damaged each other. Darndest thing, one of my original 3 was more standoffish (to me) than his brother and sister, and he’s the one who is now Mr. Batz’ closest buddy.
Bottom line for me is that the declawing was a deforming and nearly crippling thing to inflict on what was, at the time, a helpless little kitten.
I would like to chime in on the declawing issue. We have 1 cat and 2 dogs, all under 3 years old, and I get more scratches from the dogs than I do the cat. When Dipstick (white cat with a black tail) was a kitten, she scratched a little, but a well voiced yowl be me let her know that it was a bad thing to do and she stopped. Now I only get scratches from her in the ways previously mentioned by others, mostly jumping off of me with a hind leg push.
I trim her nails every couple of weeks with a little cat nail trimmer ( which incidentally is the best tool EVER for cutting zip ties). I NEVER see her take out her claws, even when the dogs are laying on her and chewing on her head. (Don’t worry, it is very gentle play that I supervise, and Dippy initiates it 9 times out of 10). When she is in the doggy bear hug, it is all back leg kicking and ear chewing for defense. She doesn’t claw furniture, and only occasionally does a little clawing of the carpet, to no ill effect that I can tell. The puppy pee is far more damaging than any clawing that Dippy does.
My mother, on the other hand has a cat that was declawed before she got him, and he seems very well adjusted. He is an indoor/outdoor cat and has had not visible injuries from any other animals in the neighborhood. The last time we were there with my husband was walking our dog on a long retractable leash, and she saw the cat and he climbed a lightpole all the way to the top! I was afraid we would have to call the fire department to get him down, but he just ran back down the pole like it was nothing.
I would never get a cat declawed because I think you can train them to not scratch you or your furniture unless seriously provoked and I can’t imagine doing that kind of thing to an animal. That said, I have known some well adjusted declawed cats who seem able to defend themselves just fine.
I live with 2 sons and a husband, and I keep matches in the bathrooms for Poolice moments. I keep some in my purse when I go to the mall. One light, and that sulfur seems to kill a LOT o’ smells. I have a friend who has digestive issues, and is very sensitive that she might have “stunk it up” (even when she doesn’t). SHE carries matches with her and uses them every time she goes. Maybe suggesting that to the women who can’t handle a few minutes of stinkies. Or tell them to use a porta-potty at a parade a time or two, THEN come back and complain about a workplace bathroom. Ew.
Oversharing – the phillips one I suggested is specific for this kind of work. The cons: it doesn’t really get rid of all hair (unless you use the epilator mode, which I never, ever did. It sounds painful :(. I think I’d rather wax, must be quicker).
The pros: it cuts short enough, the hair can be painlessly short to about 2mms, which should get your boyfriend’s attention (hee, worked for me). When I use bikinis I cut the sides really short, so it doesn’t show, but it might depend on how much area of hair you actually have (or how high cut your bikini is…)
@Elaine: My email is bunting at tomatonation dot com.
@Rebecca Terwyn: “I’m now on a waiting list for a kidney transplant after my organs shut down because of the infection. It’s rare that a cat scratch can lead to something so serious, but I am living proof that, what’s simple and unconcerning to some, is a big deal to others.”
As sorry as I am that this happened to you, this circumstance is so unlikely that I can’t imagine making the decision based on it. MSRA infections are primarily hospital-associated, if I’m not mistaken, and you say you were scratched at an animal hospital, so…again, this is a terrible thing you’re suffering, but the average cat owner is not likely to contract an MSRA, not through an average cat scratch in a non-clinical setting.
There are always exceptions to every rule; the exceptions do not disprove that rule. Yes, some cats would have to be given away if they weren’t declawed, because they’re destructive; yes, some landlords don’t allow clawed cats (although in my view you need to ask prospective landlords up front what their policy is there, and then look elsewhere if they insist on declawing — the last time I apartment-hunted, I left myself extra time in case landlords weren’t keen on two cats, and that was a minor hassle, but…that’s pet-owning for you).
So you *could* become very ill from a cat scratch, and future landlords *may* prevent claw-bearing animals from living with you, and…you *might* be hit by a bus tomorrow. *By and large* there is no reason to declaw cats, because *generally speaking* the cruelty involved is not outweighed by other possible concerns.
Pets can be messy and sharp. There is always the option not to acquire them. If you *do* acquire them, you leave their toes intact unless it cannot possibly be avoided.
Wow, the same site that inspired me to adopt a kitten from the Humane Society also talked me out of ever wanting to get little Pepper declawed. I was dead set on it too until I read some of the comments here. Instead, I picked up a claw trimmer and a pack of Soft Claws. Well, while I was clipping his claws, everything was fine until I accidentally nipped him (first time owning a cat, clearly). He let out the saddest, most scared little meow and I started crying because I couldn’t believe I’d done that to my baby. Now he’s sulking in the corner instead of cuddling on my lap like he always does. After that I can’t bear to think of declawing him.
Now, can someone tell me how the hell I’m supposed to get claw covers on our little tiny kitten? He can’t do much damage but he REALLY likes to claw at our curtains so I’d rather have him used to the Soft Claws sooner rather than later.
Again – thanks, everyone, for keeping me informed and keeping my Peppercat happy!