The Vine: March 30, 2005
Hey Sars,
Love reading The Vine, and I’m always glad I don’t have something so tragic
as to have to ask advice.
Anyway, I am a certified test counselor for HIV in Michigan, and I had a
thought after reading the letter from “Lifetime.” I don’t know what state
she is writing from, but I know in Michigan (and I believe most other
states) when an individual tests HIV positive, they are required by the
Health Department to inform all partners with whom they’ve had sexual
contact. This may make the writer feel better about her friend being
informed of her potential positive HIV status.
You probably don’t need me to tell you, but you were right on the money
about the writer not breaking confidentiality. Keep up the good work!
E
Dear E,
Thanks for the tip. Of course, if Ben’s any kind of human being, he’ll tell her himself even if he’s not required to…but I do wonder how strictly the Health Department enforces that requirement and if anyone slips through the cracks.
Hi Sars,
I’ve got a comma question for you. Someone recently edited a sentence that I wrote, removing a comma that I had used. I think that it no longer reads correctly without a comma, but I can’t articulate why. I’ve looked at my Gregg Reference Manual, but since all the comma usage advice is grouped by headings like “independent this,” and “dependent, non essential that,” I don’t see an example the addresses the construction in question.
The specific sentence is: “New xyz type widgets will be introduced at the show, joining the company’s full line of widgets, wingdings and thingies for use in industrial and scientific applications.” The comma in question is the one between “show” and “joining.” What do you call that sentence construction? And is it correct with or without the comma? I use this type of sentence construction often and want to make sure I’m doing it correctly and can explain it to someone else if called on it again.
Signed,
A writer, but not a grammar rules maven
Dear Writer,
The sentence should read as follows: “New XYZ Type widgets will be introduced at the show, joining the company’s full line of widgets, wingdings, and thingies for use in industrial and scientific applications.” So, you need the comma between “show” and “joining,” and you also need another comma after “wingdings,” because it’s a series and therefore calls for an Oxford comma.
I can let the Oxford comma go; it’s preferred but not always mandatory. The comma between “show” and “joining”? Mandatory. “Joining” is a participle that modifies “XYZ Type widgets,” and one of the comma’s many uses is to separate participial phrases from independent clauses — as it does here.
If you’re called on it again, ask the editor to flip the clauses so the sentence reads, “Joining the company’s full line…applications new XYZ Type widegets…show.” You’d still need a comma, of course, because otherwise the sentence is a run-on mess; the same principle applies to the original, but perhaps it isn’t as obvious.
Anyway: Whoever cut the comma is wrong.
Dear Sars,
Would you provide some etiquette advice on an appropriate thing to say when a person has lost a lot of weight? A co-worker showed me a picture of her and her husband taken a couple of years ago, and in the photo she weighed about 80 pounds more than she does now. It was a good picture of the two of them, she just happened to weigh more back then. I commented on how great a picture it was (they both looked happy, perfect hair, white teeth), and my co-worker looked flabbergasted. She said she couldn’t believe I could say it was a good picture when she was obviously so much fatter back then.
I didn’t think my comment was inappropriate, but I guess I was wrong. So, what in your opinion should a person say in a situation like that? I don’t feel comfortable commenting on other people’s sizes because I hate it when people say stuff about mine, but what should I say when shown pictures of someone who has gone through weight changes?
Thanks so much,
Miss Manners didn’t mention this
Dear Actually, I Bet She Has,
I would really like it, not just from an etiquette standpoint but from a societal one as well, if women could learn to take a goddamn compliment every now and again instead of using it as an opportunity to bag on themselves. Seriously. If someone says something nice to or about you, it isn’t an invitation to hate yourself out loud, and when you do that instead of just saying “thank you” like a grown-up, it’s awkward, because what is the other person supposed to say? “Yeah, actually, you do look kind of porky in that shot”? Come on. I don’t know where we all got the idea that accepting a compliment is conceited or something, but men don’t do that shit, and all y’all need to knock it off, right now, because putting others in the position of convincing you that you aren’t hideous? Is rude, and it’s long since gotten boring. We’ve all had Shannen Doherty face in a photo, but your mama still loves you so fucking get over it. I mean, damn.
Sorry for the rant, but honestly, your comment wasn’t inappropriate. It was a compliment, it was sincere, and your co-worker put you in the impossible position of either telling her she wasn’t heavy back then, when she was, or agreeing that she was much heavier back then, which you can’t do, because duh. But she brought her relative size into it, not you. You didn’t do anything wrong.
Even generally speaking, when you see older photos of someone who’s lost a lot of weight, I think doing exactly what you did is fine. I mean, she knows she lost 80 pounds. She was there. You can just compliment something else about the picture, as you did in this case, because you are a polite person who is not going to be all “whoooaaaa, you used to be FIZZAT!” And if the photo-shower in turn does that to herself? See above.
And I am serious about that above, people. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve said, “Nice dress!” and then had to parry an “oh, I look fat” or “this old thing?” in response, and I AM OVER IT. “But –” No. “But –” NO. IT IS A NICE DRESS.
“…Thank you.”
That’s more like it.
Hello!
Today while reading headlines on my homepage, I came
across something that has bothered me before (for
reasons other than the obvious): ” …9 American
troops killed.”
Does this mean that 9 American SOLDIERS were killed,
or 9 American GROUPS (platoons, units, whatever)
were killed? Is it 9 human beings or 9 groups of
human beings? It’s just not clear to me.
Is each soldier also a “troop”? Is it intended to
dehumanize the fact that our military personnel are
being killed right and left? Is it because they
don’t know which branch of the military the “troop”
was in so the 9 who lost their lives are
collectively “troops”? Or is it because we’re not
supposed to focus on the fact that 9 brave humans
lost their lives but that 9 military TROOPS (who
went willingly knowing this could happen to them)
were killed.
I am confused (and angry, but that’s beside the
point). I am now going to go hug a sweet male
infant and pray that by the time he’s old enough to
be drafted there is no draft and he won’t have to
become a “troop.”
JB
Dear JB,
I think it’s because the word “troops” is shorter than the word “soldiers,” so, in a headline that probably got ported over from a print edition, the editor probably substituted one for the other for formatting reasons.
I still don’t think it’s correct usage; I believe “the troops” is a collective noun that functions in a way similar to “the people.” Garner agrees, saying that a troop is “an assembled unit of soldiers,” while “troops signifies soldiers…and is usually modified by an adjective to indicate some special training or assignment…”
So, it’s used incorrectly, but it’s probably a space-saving issue rather than a concerted attempt to de-emphasize what happened.
Dear Sars,
I want to get your opinion on a pretty thorny post-breakup situation. I feel like I’ve lost all perspective on things, and who better to dispense advice than the wise and all-knowing Sars?
First, some background. I dated the same guy, B, all four years of college. We met through my RA, who told me the first week of school that we’d be perfect for one another. We met, we got along really well, and after about a month, we got involved. It wasn’t serious at first, but by the time my freshman year ended, we were going pretty strong.
By that time, I’d found out from a mutual friend that my RA and her best friend K, both good friends of B since before I knew any of them (they were all juniors), had both harbored pretty intense crushes on B at different points in the past (at least, I was assured that it was in the past), and that they both felt threatened by my presence in his life. I wasn’t really friends with my RA or with K, but we always got along really well when we all hung out, and they were really, really nice to me, so I figured that it wasn’t me they didn’t like, just the situation. I thought that once they got used to me as an important part of B’s life, everything would calm down. Over time, it did, and we actually all became friends.
Fast forward to my graduation last May. My RA had gone off to law school, K had traveled to Europe and had eventually settled back here (more on that below), and B had been working since his graduation in the same city where our college is located. It hadn’t exactly been smooth sailing for B and me; we’d broken up and gotten back together twice, but by the time I graduated, we were stronger — and happier — than ever. Still, I was a little hesitant to move here permanently after graduation (I didn’t want to be that girl, the one who plans her life around a boy), but B told me that he couldn’t imagine being here without me and made it clear that he wanted me to stay — if, of course, it was what I wanted, too. It seemed to make the most sense at the time. I had a job offer, a few of my friends were here, and I didn’t have any other plans. Plus, I was in love, and things were going really, really well. So I moved, and everything was great.
The previous May, K had decided to move here to look for a job, partly at the urging of B, who was trying to resurrect the college gang. She and I quickly became inseparable. We had never been close friends, but now we discovered how much we really had in common. We hung out all the time independently of B and talked almost every day. Sometimes, I worried that she had only come back because she still had feelings for B, but, knowing that I have a tendency to worry too much, I pushed those thoughts away. Besides, I trusted both of them, and I knew that B had never been interested in her. The three of us hung out quite a lot, probably too often, but we all enjoyed each other’s company. We became a little unit and did everything together. I had other friends, but K and B were basically my whole world here.
About three months after I moved here, B broke up with me with unexpectedly. It was pretty devastating, but it also made me really angry, because I had no idea that serious problems were brewing. I felt he should have told me he was unhappy so that we could have worked on things; after all, we’d been dating for almost four years and had been through a lot together. After a lot of prompting and a lot of bullshit excuses — the “it’s not you, it’s me” excuse included — he told me that he found the idea of dating other people “intriguing” (yes, he used that word). He also told me that he wanted someone who was “less work” and that I was “too insecure.” I tried to argue that we could make it work, but he had convinced himself that it was time to see other people. I think he felt the need to explore his options since he was nearing 25 having only been in serious relationships.
Here’s where it gets messy. After the breakup, I was a wreck. I felt like my world had been turned upside down. B and I had agreed to take some time away from each other before we tried to become friends, and that was extremely tough to get used to. K was really close to both of us, but she had known B longer, so I understood that she might feel torn, and I hated to put her in an awkward position. With that in mind, I tried not to lean on her that much, but pretty soon, I realized that she was spending way more time with B than she was with me. I didn’t say anything, knowing that it was her prerogative to spend time with whomever she wanted, but it hurt like hell. I felt like B had replaced me with her; pretty soon, they were hanging out almost every day, and I only talked to her once or twice a week. It was like life had gone back to normal, only without me.
I started to worry that they would get together behind my back, and, in a moment of weakness, asked her to tell me if anything happened between them. She said, very earnestly, that I didn’t have anything to worry about, but promised nonetheless. Six weeks after the breakup, she came to me and kept her promise. It wasn’t sex, she said, but something had happened. She was crying, said she’d been sick since it happened, and told me that she’d been in love with him for years and had always considered him the perfect guy for her. I asked her if it was going to happen again, and she said she didn’t know. I was too upset to deal with the information, and I asked her to leave.
The next day, I called B, which I really shouldn’t have done considering how angry and upset I was. He was completely cold, telling me that it was none of my business who he dates. He also said that I was being hysterical and making too big a deal of it, and that as soon as I calmed down, I’d see that there was no reason we couldn’t all be friends. I was furious, and told him that I never wanted to speak to him or to K again. Since then, we haven’t been in contact.
So here’s where I finally ask the question: was I being hysterical and overreacting? Obviously, I’m biased because my feelings were hurt, which is why I feel I’ve lost perspective on the situation. I keep thinking that if K were really my friend, she wouldn’t have moved in on my ex so soon after our (very painful) breakup, even if she did had the world’s longest crush on him. After all, she knew how devastated I was. And am I right in thinking that B is a gigantic asshole? I know I’m better off without him for many reasons that I can’t get into in this letter, which is already far too long (sorry), but was it really none of my business, after four years, that he hooked up with K? I feel I deserved more consideration and respect than he showed me. He feels that I was overreacting when I decided to end both friendships. I don’t know what to think. I’d really appreciate your advice, Sars.
Signed,
Am I Losing My Mind?
Dear No,
You’ve made your mistakes in this situation, it’s true — you shouldn’t have put K in the middle when you could have predicted she’d have to kind of pick a side, and you shouldn’t have asked her tell you if anything happened when what you really wanted to hear was “nothing has happened because B still loves you.” With that said, cutting them both off when you did was the right call.
You can’t continue to deal with these people, not right now. B broke your heart by, basically, choosing other girls to be named later over you (and the use of the word “intriguing” is so cheesily arrogant that, gah, you’re better off). Then he’s all “mind your own bidness” like that’s an option. I mean, should you have known this? No. Are you happier knowing this? No. But you do know it, and it’s not irrelevant, because the two of you were together for years, and if he could have handled it more insensitively, I’m sure I don’t see how. And as for K, well, you both should have known better than to have her in that position, and she can’t help how she feels, but…she picked a side and she’ll have to live with it. It’s not her fault, but her crush isn’t your fault, either. They’re not trying to break your heart, but they’re doing it anyway, and B at least doesn’t seem to give a shit, so fuck them both in the ear.
If B wants to think you’re “being hysterical,” let him have his dismissive, obtuse opinion — this is the best thing for you right now, is to not have anything to do with them or know what they’re up to. No contact is the best way to move on, future friendship or not — and that, I would not advise. B is a dick, and K…again, she can’t help how she feels, but still, that’s not something you’re just going to get past over a few beers.
It sucks that this happened, but don’t let the other participants, of all people, decide for you whether your reaction is appropriate.
Tags: boys (and girls) etiquette friendships grammar health and beauty
This is 400 years after the fact … But I’m in media and “troops” is generally used when “soldiers” is inaccurate — for example, if the story is about service members from both the Army and the Marines being killed. Soldiers are in the army, but marines are Marines, not soldiers. “Troops” is not perfect, either, I’ll admit … But I think most journalists find it preferable to mis-labeling a member of the military. That’s a sin most of us are pretty sensitive to, and wary of committing.