The Vine: September 24, 2008
Hi Sars,
I’m in a bit of a quandary, and I’ve asked around my friends but none of them had any more idea than I do.Since you give great advice about work issues, I was hoping you could help.
I’m interviewing for two jobs.Job A is with a really good organisation whose work I admire, but it’s an entry-ish level position and in the department I’m least interested in working in.It would be a decent next-step job, but that’s all it would be — I don’t expect I’d want to stay in it for more than a year or so, and I don’t know how much opportunity there is for advancement.
Job B, on the other hand, is pretty much my dream job at the moment; however, it’s a bit beyond my reach in terms of my current level of experience and qualifications (though I’m confident I’d be able to do it well if I were given the opportunity).
The catch is that Job A is about a week ahead of Job B in the hiring process.If I’m offered Job A, the offer would almost certainly come before Job B had made their decision.So my question is this: if I’m offered Job A before I hear from Job B, what should I do?
To give you a bit more background, I am DESPERATE to get out of my current job (HAAAAAAATE), and I would like to move in a new direction.Job A is pretty much designed to be a transitional/trainee type job, which is great because there aren’t many like it, but as a result the money and level of responsibility aren’t quite what I would like.Still, it would be a good move.
On the other hand, Job B is the kind of job I’m aiming for, full stop.It’s exactly the work I want to be doing, there’s lots of opportunity for advancement, and it pays about $15,000 more per year than Job A.
So you can see why I’d want to take Job B if it were offered.And while it’s heaps more likely that I would be offered Job A than Job B, I have some connections at Job B, so I have a slightly better chance at it than I would otherwise.But as I said, I wouldn’t find out about it until after I’d found out about Job A, and I wouldn’t want to sign a contract for A and then have B come along and have to turn it down.
On the other hand, my chances at B are slim, and if I turned A down only to find out I hadn’t gotten B, I would kick myself black and blue — and I have no idea how long it would be before I found another position like A.
Is there a way to tell one potential employer that you’re interested, but are waiting to hear on another position?If you accept a job offer, is there a window in which you can change your mind?And would doing something like this curse me with rotten job karma (or a bad reputation)?Any advice you could give would be greatly appreciated.
Working Girl
Dear Girl,
I’ve never faced this dilemma myself, so I can’t speak from experience, but I think you can tell Job A that you have to wait to make a decision; it’s your call whether to get into specifics, but people in hiring positions understand that nobody sends out one résumé at a time, and that running into a timing issue like this is always a possibility.
They also understand that this is something people sometimes say in order to get the salary offer bumped up a notch, and that’s not a bad implication to have them sit with.It buys you some time while they formulate a counter-offer (if that’s something they want to do), and if it does get you more money, it makes Job A more palatable if that is where you wind up.
But the job you really want is Job B, so that’s the job you should hold out for if there’s a possibility you’ll get it.Easy to say, tough to make yourself do when you’re desperate, but the things we want don’t usually find us on their own; we have to go get in their way.The trick is to stall Job A for a few days or a week and see how things play out.Ask your contact at Job A for X amount of time to think things over, or tie up loose ends with other feelers you’ve put out — however you want to put it, but something diplomatic that isn’t a blunt “I have to see what my first choice does.”Again, most people get how the job search works, and in most industries they don’t require you to demonstrate romantic love for the position; if Job A ankles you for weighing your options, well, you don’t want to work there anyway.
Do take care not to commit to anything you don’t fully understand before you hear from Job B, though.A contract is a contract; if you need more time, take it, but I wouldn’t advise signing up with Job A to hold the spot while thinking you can go back on it later.I’m sure that happens, but it’s not something you want to do to Job A, or put yourself through if you can avoid it.
And before you do or say anything, decide what you want to happen, and behave accordingly.If you want to get Job B, go get Job B.Choose.If Job A falls out as a result, that’s a short-term problem, but in the grand scheme, you don’t want Job A.You want A Job, and you’ll get one in time, but focus on what you want to do, not on what you want to get away from or avoid.
Sars,
So, I lived in a small town for a year, and still have extended family there and some old friends with whom I’m in sporadic touch.Two of them are getting married.I’d like to get them a gift.
I emailed a third friend, who’s the best man, and asked where they’re registered (because it’s too forward to ask them, right?).I received no response.What complicates this situation is that I used to date the best man, many years ago.Also, I’m not invited to the wedding.
I’m afraid this guy thought I was somehow angling for an invitation to the wedding by bringing up the registry, when I truly just want to give these people a gift.But I feel like an ass emailing him again to explain it.I have his phone number, and could call to ask about it, but that feels wrong too.I’m considering just giving up on the whole wedding gift thing at all.
Thanks for any guidance.
I know I’m overthinking this
Dear Over,
I don’t think it’s too forward to ask the couple (I hope it isn’t; I just did it over the weekend).It’s too forward for them to tell you unprompted, is the rule.I can see how you might not want to inquire directly if you think they’ll think you’re hinting around for an invitation, but on the other hand…who cares.Email the bride and ask where she’s registered.
Or search their names online — weddingchannel.com, The Knot, you can probably find them on one of those, or just Google the couple’s last names and the word “registry.”Unless they only picked stuff from mom-and-pops in the small town, you’ll find something.
Failing that: gift certificate, email, done.Most couples will dig that; don’t kill yourself with this.
Dear Sars,
I need a reality check.
Last year ’round about this time, I cut off a friendship that I felt had turned toxic.”D” was one of those people who tried his damnedest to be a nice guy, but didn’t always quite get there.Part of that was that he had Asperger’s syndrome and was socially awkward to the nth degree; he legitimately did not understand some social cues, and that some things were not always acceptable to be discussed in public.
The third person in this mess is a mutual friend of all of the above, my ex-boyfriend, C.C was depressive and suicidal at the time we dated; I was on heavy Zoloft myself.For obvious reasons, it was not a relationship that would have been particularly healthy in the long run (for me especially, but that’s beyond the point).But besides that, we were in love and it seemed like we both got something we needed out of it, and I don’t have any regrets.
My relationship with C began in January about two years ago, and when this became open to the rest of the group, all hell broke loose.Apparently D had been harboring feelings for me and seemed to think that those feelings were reciprocated (wtf?)I felt guilty enough for this (yeah, I know) to put up with some behaviors that I shouldn’t, and once I realized that I had nothing to feel guilty for, put a stop to that and told him why.
D had a problem with it, but got over it fairly quickly, and ended up being very supportive of both C and me, which I greatly appreciate.He was there for me just talking to me and keeping me from losing my mind while I was trying to keep C from slitting his wrists, he was there for me when I was going through some family issues.I feel like I was a friend to him as well, being supportive of a lot of issues that he was going through with friends and family.
On the other hand, he was pretty damned clingy — when I chose to “appear offline” on MSN because I didn’t want to be interrupted speaking with C before he went out of the country for a week, and D found out that I had been “deliberately ignoring him” as he put it, he freaked out and could not understand why I would do such a thing.I excused this at the time with his Asperger’s, knowing that a) he didn’t have many friends and b) didn’t really have social skills.
Around October though, things started to turn sour.D was starting to really, really grate on me.First of all, he had developed some depression of his own after moving with his family several hundred miles away from his hometown, and not knowing anyone in the area.I totally understood those feelings and tried to help him with some strategies to make friends, but felt like he was totally unreceptive to the idea of pushing at the bounds of his comfort zone and actually, y’know, talking to people.
At this point, Sars, I will be honest, I was depressioned out.I’d been in therapy myself for over seven years at that point and was finally starting to get somewhere.I was trying to hold C together, and hold myself together while realizing that my relationship with C was rapidly turning even more unhealthy than usual.I tried to be supportive, but when D flat-out refused to talk to a professional because he thought that his depression would just go away if he ignored it (his words, not mine), I admit it — I started to avoid him under the pretext of “I’ve started college and I really have no time right now.”
That meant that when I did talk to him (online, due to college and being halfway across the country), I couldn’t take more than twenty seconds to begin to type a reply to anything he said because he would immediately freak out: “I feel like you’re ignoring me.Are you ignoring me?”This, as you can imagine, made me feel rather stifled.I mentioned this.Several times.He did not appear to understand why, and continued to bombard me with messages about his depression, also not understanding why, if I would stay up all night talking to C when he was thinking about slitting his wrists, I wouldn’t do the same for him (answer: different kind of relationship).
Finally I started completely ignoring him.This was not mature.I am not proud of it.I ended up sending him a short email that said “this friendship is over, I can’t talk to you anymore” or something like that, trusting him to understand why, since I had clearly stated that I a) felt stifled, b) was disturbed by his clinginess, and c) was really not a fan of being constantly the ear for his moaning.
He did not understand.I continued to ignore his messages.Finally, about three months after I pulled the plug, he stopped trying to talk to me.
Why write to you now?I’m in a different phase of my life.I broke up with C (several weeks after I cut ties with D) and although it’s taken me awhile to get over that, I’m now in the process of going off of my medication.I feel like a completely new person — this is the first time I’ve been off of medication in five or six years, and I feel more clear-headed than I have in years.So I don’t know whether the idea of contacting D again is a good one, or bad news bears.I do NOT want to open up that friendship again.I do NOT want to get sucked down into that same trap.I do, however, feel like I owe him an apology, or an explanation.
Sars, I am well aware that my backbone is not very strong (I only started to grow one during the last few months of my relationship with C) and that I err on the side of wanting to be too nice.I know that I could have handled declaring the expiration date on my friendship with D better than I did.(Well, I say I could have handled it better now, but at the time, there was really no other way I could think of to end things than to just avoid him.)
I know that my name still comes up in conversation in D’s circle of friends, whom I also divorced in this whole mess.I know, knowing D, that an explanation might make this whole mess easier on him (because apparently he still does not understand why I did what I did).
On the other hand, it’s been a year since the whole mess occurred.Would it be an extremely stupid idea to shoot him an email saying, “Hey, look, I still don’t want to talk to you, but I feel like I owe you an explanation for being a bitch”?Is it better at this point to just pretend like the whole thing didn’t happen and continue moving on?
I swear I am capable of forming functional bonds with other humans, I am, I am
Dear Funk,
Well, I for sure wouldn’t word it that way, but regardless of the phrasing, you’re better off letting it lie.D isn’t good with social cues; a mixed message like “I’m sorry about how I treated you…but not about the result” is only going to confuse him, and either you’ll hurt his feelings afresh or he’ll start stifling you again.
You did what you had to do, then; the methods weren’t very pretty, but you tried to sugar-coat it and that didn’t work, so you had no choice.But…the how is the only thing you’d do over, not the what, and I suspect the temptation to reach out to him isn’t as much about him as it is about what he thinks of you, or you not wanting to think of yourself as a bitch.As far as that goes, putting your own needs first does not by definition make you a bitch, and sometimes you…just have to be a bitch anyway, when I-statements and “could you please” aren’t getting results.
My point is that if you want to feel validated in your actions, that has to come from you.You did what was necessary for your emotional health, and maybe you’d do it differently today, but it’s not D’s job, or even within his capabilities, to sign off on that; it’s not realistic to expect that he’ll understand that’s all you want from him, either.
You’re both better off if this email isn’t sent.It was a good shooting.Move on.
Tags: etiquette friendships workplace
I’ve been in a very similar job situation to Working Girl, and I called my college’s career office for advice. Assuming you get job A, you should call them and ask for a week to make your decision. (You can try asking for 2, but you’re less likely to get it, so if you don’t really need it, why ask?) Give them a specific date: “I will let you know by close of business next Friday whether I will take the offer.” Apparently most everyone will give you a week, and like Sars said, it might prompt them to up your offer.
Then, call job B and ask where they are in the hiring process. Hint that you have another offer, so you’d like to know your chances. The thing about employers is, if they know someone else is interested in you, it makes *them* more interested in you. Obviously you don’t want to pressure them so much that you become an annoyance and they take you out of the running, but essentially, you need to call them to say “Oh, by the way, I’m a hot commodity right now.”
The rest of the advice seems good to me. Especially the part about making a positive decision to take a job you like, instead of accepting something under the logic of “anything’s better than what I’m doing now.”
@Over
Do you know the parents? Its not uncommon to ask a mother of the to-be-marrieds where they are registered if you don’t want to ask them directly. Otherwise, check Target or department stores in your area.
The fact that “putting your own needs first does not by definition make you a bitch” is something lots of people need to learn.
There are people with Asperger’s or just terrible social skills who will at least try to learn social cues and norms. That goes a long way toward building good will and patience.
I actually think sending the e-mail to let D know that you wouldn’t contact him anymore was thoughtful. (Some friendships can be allowed to fade out but that will only work with someone who catches on that the e-mails and chats are shorter and farther apart.) If he chose to ignore the message there was nothing you could do.
Sars: “…in most industries they don’t require you to demonstrate romantic love for the position…” Tee!
I think professionally stalling is the best you can do – do NOT take job A because you feel like you “have” to, just to drop it like a hot potato if job B pans out. This burns bridges right quick. Hiring managers understand how job hunting goes. A polite “thank you for your consideration. I will have a decision for you in [X number of days]” is completely acceptable, I would think.
Funk’s letter could easily be an update letter to countless Vine letters that have asked how to end a toxic relationship — it’s very instructive.
Funk did exactly what Sars has told so many others to do: “Finally I started completely ignoring him.” COMPLETELY ignoring — this is the key. “This was not mature” — but it IS mature, when you step up to protect yourself from someone who causes you continual pain. “I am not proud of it” — again, maybe the “ignoring” part feels discourteous, but this relationship was no longer about courtesy, and Funk *should* be proud of her backbone of iron that has lasted months now. Cutting someone out of your life is hard, and it feels bad, but it will pay off later on.
“He did not understand.” He didn’t understand or accept her explanations then, and he will not now. Just because she has evolved doesn’t mean he has, and nothing her new self says now will penetrate any better than what her old self said before. “I continued to ignore his messages. Finally, about three months after I pulled the plug, he stopped trying to talk to me.” It IS possible to continue to ignore someone beyond what you think you can handle, and they WILL stop eventually. Responding (or reaching out) at any point just resets the clock and undoes all the hard work of ignoring. The impulse to clear things up with a final explanation is understandable, but a relationship this messed up is never going to have a neat ending. It won’t.
And if you’re the endee, if someone hasn’t responded to you after three months? They’re not going to. Move on.
@Working Girl: It sounds like you period, full stop, do not want Job A. You say you are dissatisfied with the level of work and the pay, you wouldn’t stay there more than a year, etc. The only attraction of Job A is that it is not your current job. But it sounds to me like you wouldn’t be much happier there than you are where you are now. I know what its like to be desperate and to feel like anywhere but here (BELIEVE ME). But you should be thinking long term, and another negative to consider about Job A. Staying anywhere for only a year does not look good on your resume. It says job hopper, or problem employee. So, if you feel you’ll be out in this sucky job market again in a year if you took Job A, you shouldn’t take it. In the long run, I think you will be happier if you hold out for Job B, and if you don’t get that, start looking for Job C.
Working Girl, I think you also should consider the option of contacting Job B if/when you get the offer to take Job A. You can tell Job B that you have another offer, but you REALLY want their job, so can they give you any indication of how it’s going.
There is a risk that doing that will just make them check you off the list of possibilities, so you have to weigh it carefully. But if they do want you, it might goose them along so you don’t have to drag it out with Job A for so long.
Working Girl: I had a company make me wait for weeks while they decided whether or not they were going to hire me, and I only got a firm response when I called them saying that I’d had another offer. I don’t think that asking a company to wait a week for you to make up your mind is at all unreasonable.
and Funk: Your situation sounds remarkably similar to my “stalker” in college (no official police paperwork or anything, but there probably could/should have been – but we worked together in a close-knit lab and it’s a REALLY long story). He eventually went to a different school which eased tensions significantly, but was still wacko in that he expected me to email him regularly…and by regularly I mean that when I didn’t respond to an email within a day-and-a-half, he sent me the SAME EXACT email with a different subject line. Anyway, I finally told him that I didn’t want to have any contact with him ever again. He abided by that until a few years later when he’d moved back into town. He emailed me again saying (very politely) that he was back in town and that he’d love to do lunch or something someday.
I took a few days to think about it and finally came to the conclusion (as you have) that the drama and (quite frankly) the fear was something that I just really didn’t want to deal with again, so I politely turned him down, explaining that I just wasn’t comfortable with the idea and haven’t heard from him since (I’ve seen him and quite literally run from the building a couple of times, but never spoken to him).
So maybe the day will never come for you, but it’s possible that at some point in the future he’ll contact you again. That opens the door for you to apologize for your method, but clearly re-state that you just can’t handle being around him, even if both of you have changed since then.
But for goodness’ sake, don’t open that can of worms!!!! It’s ok to be “nice” to yourself rather than give preference to someone else.
I agree, don’t contact D. If you do not want to be in contact with him, then don’t contact him! Otherwise you are in fact in contact with him, with all that entails. Move on.
Funk, you say “…I am well aware that my backbone is not very strong…” but look at you! You dealt with all this heavy stuff while dealing with your own depression! You have backbone, kiddo, maybe a backbone made of steel. GO FUNK!!!
I agree w/Sars & all, let it lie. Trying to fix it won’t change the past, and may stir up more trouble in the future. You were part of D’s learning curve in Relationships 101, and you should not feel badly for doing what you needed to do for your own sake! Let it go, you did your best & that’s the best you can do.
I’m so glad you’re feeling better!
Here’s what I do if I have a job offer and I’m waiting on one I want more. I say to Job A, “In how much time do you need an answer?” I contact Job B to say that I have another job offer. Then I give Job A an answer in the time frame that they specified.
However, if you don’t want to risk Job A saying, “Five days,” and still not hearing from Job B, tell them, “Thank you so much for this offer. I need some time to think on it and I’ll have an answer in [the amount of time you need].”
Best of luck!
@Working Girl: I was in a similar scenario a couple of years ago except that I was interested in both jobs but preferred job B. When I got the offer for job A, I called job B and said I was very interested in the position there but I had another offer and was wondering how far along they were in their decision-making process. They told me they would get back to me in two days. They did, and offered me the job and I could turn down job A without much of a problem.
It does sound like you’re not really interested in job A but that job B might be a bit senior for your current qualifications. If you don’t get job B now, would doing job A for a year get you the experience you need for job B? If not, then like everyone else said, you shouldn’t take job A. But if it’s a good way to get to a future job B then that should be considered but you should stay there at least a year.
About Funk, and her dilemma.
Person D, with Asperger’s, had feelings for you, thought they were reciprocated, and had a great deal trouble accepting that those feelings were not reciprocated. He had trouble with social cues and he still does.
Given the Asperger’s, that you are no longer with C, it is almost guaranteed that D will see ANY contact from you as meaning that you are now free from C, and a more serious relationship between you and D is possible.
You know that that is not the case. But many men would interpret contact at this point from you (given the history and timing) as meaning exactly that, and I don’t think D is going to be the exception.
Contacting D would not be nice to him. Regardless of your intentions, contacting and apologizing to D at this point is in no way an act of kindness to him.
I am “Over Thinking This,” and I ended up emailing the groom (with whom I am closer,) who did belatedly invite me to the wedding, which I declined. They weren’t at theknot.com or any other wedding site. It’s all taken care of now. Thanks for answering my questions.
Funk, my friend was in a situation slightly similar to yours, and I wish she’d had the ‘backbone’ to tell the other depressed guy that was in love with her that wasn’t her boyfriend (phew) that communication was no longer an option. It would have saved a LOT of drama that is STILL going on. Sigh. You did the right thing.
Okay, I see that Over’s question has been answered, but I have to ask: how do you search for people’s wedding sites on theknot? This has come up twice in recent months- in my move, I lost two save the dates and now I can’t remember any details of the wedding (including, obviously, the wedding websites).
Working Girl — Even if, worst case scenario, Job A were to tell you that they require an answer immediately and you were to accept their offer, it’s highly unlikely they’ll expect you to sign a contract. First, they will expect you to give two-weeks notice at your current job, and then they would likely think it normal if you wanted to take a few days off between the old job and the new job. So you’ll have a start date 2-3 weeks away from the day you accept their offer.
During that time, if you get an offer from Job B, you can consider whether taking Job B is worth the chance that you’ll piss off someone at Job A in such a way as to cause yourself some professional harm. If Job B really is your dream job, then it may very well be worth it to take it even if it causes some potential bad feelings with people at Job A.
Is it cool to accept a job offer and then change your mind when a better offer comes along? Not really — but I think this is one of those times when you’d damn well better put yourself first. The best thing to do is to put off Job A as long as you can and call Job B (as others have said). The only unacceptable thing (I think) is to actually start Job A and then quit when Job B comes along.
Over: glad you got it sorted, but I want to go ahead and add my two cents anyway. If the other suggestions (online registry, friends or family, etc) had failed, I would have emailed the bride or groom saying I’d heard about their wedding, was so happy for them, it must be so exciting, where are they registered, I’ll be thinking of them on their special day but unfortunately I won’t be able to attend the wedding due to (work, distance, other obligations, whatever). That takes the unspoken “So how come I didn’t get an invitation?” out of the interaction right away, makes it clear that you’re not angling for an invite.
Working Girl – Right out of grad school, I got the equivalent of Job A, and thought it was an industry I wanted to be in. Literally as I was starting A – that very day – I was offered B. To complicate it, I realized in one day of work that A 1) was not going to be nearly enough of a challenge and 2) did not offer enough advancement opportunities for a career path.
So I did the unthinkable and quit A and took B. Ten years later, I still work for B. I’ve never been able to go near A again (which is too bad because it’s a cool theater company). I’m sure I left A in the lurch, which I regret, and I’m equally sure they don’t remember me at all.
While it’s not what I would have preferred to do, it was the right choice for me at the time. You just have to be willing to feel bad, seriously aggravate the people at A, and almost certainly burn the bridges to A. If that’s worth it to you – and if you can’t get A to hold on until you get an answer from B, as suggested above – it may be the right way to go.
I can’t really see what’s to gain from writing to D. I mean, you seem to want to tell him why you did what you did, but the answer, really, is, “I did what I did because I don’t want you in my life.” Like, to the degree he has any idea at all, he has not the wrong idea, but the right idea, and having that confirmed isn’t going to make him feel any better. If he believed that you cut him off because you hated his guts, but you actually cut him off because you had typhus, I would understand wanting to clear it up. But coming back a year later to reaffirm your non-desire to have him in your life seems kind of counterproductive. It’s okay that he doesn’t understand why you did it — you don’t have to leave him believing that you were right to walk away from him, you know? It’s okay if he thinks your decision to cut him off was senseless or even wrong. He can live the rest of his life quite happily that way.
Going back to get a more perfect ending, probably at the expense of stirring up a lot of shit he’s trying to move on from, doesn’t seem like an act of kindness, even though I know that’s what you genuinely intend.
Working Girl- it may not mean much in this economic climate, but a few years ago I was in a situation similar to yours–offered a blah Job A, holding out for an awesome Job B. I turned down Job A and crossed my fingers. Then I didn’t get Job B. Shortly afterwards (with just enough time for some quality “What did I DO?”-fueled ice cream jags), I was offered the even awesomer Job C.
I’d say try to hold off Job A for a week or so, try to light a discreet fire under Job B, and if neither of them works out, perhaps there’s an even awesomer Job C out there for you too.
Working Girl – I was once in a similar dilemma. The difference is, my dad used to be an Executive in the HR department of one of the Big Three auto companies. When I asked him for advice, he said: “Take Job A, and then if Job B (which was hemming and hawing for weeks) finally offers you the job, take it. It happens all the time, and you have to do what’s best for you.” He honestly didn’t feel it was a big deal.
In the meantime, you can take all the other great advice: ask Job A for a few days to make your decision; and – if needed – tell them you need to give 2 weeks notice to your old job to buy even more time, AND call Job B and tell them about the other offer.
But, in the end, *** you have to do what’s best for you. *** And if you’re working at A when the offer for B comes along … so what? Don’t be too worried about hurting Job A’s feelings. It’s not personal – it’s business. (/Don Corleone)
Working Girl- I agree with the last few posts, that it’s probably fine to take Job A, but then take Job B if you get the offer. Some additional things to consider: you said that Job A is sort of an entry-level, intern type thing. I’ve hired lots of entry-level type job, and usually there are lots of qualified applicants, and I know that they are all looking at different stuff. People have taken the job, then left, and in the end, as the employer, I’m happiest having people in the job who want to be the job, and aren’t always looking for the thing that they do want. When I’m hiring, I always have weird little delays because of references, other projects. I have to call applicants to tell them the timeline is off, so it wouldn’t bug too much if an applicant asked for a few days to decide. I’d probably just spend that time calling references for my 2nd choice.
Also, if you interview with Job B, you’ll probably have a better sense of the odds that you might get an offer, and what you should do about Job A.
regarding ‘Over” I would have to disagree with e. Sending an email effectively saying ‘I couldn’t go to your wedding even if you did invite me’ could be misinterpreted as a little bit childish.
I think Over handled it perfectly, she got the registry information she wanted, the groom politely offered her an invitation and she politely declined. Spared feelings all around, I applaud you.
As for Job A and Job B I was in the same situation some time ago. I did what most have suggested and asked for some time to think it over and then contacted Job B and told them I had an offer. Unfortunately the recruitment company that was handling applications for Job B had completely botched the whole process and so Job B was starting the recruitment process over again from the very beginning. I ended up taking Job A and found despite my initial reservations that it was actually the right position for me and suited me far better than Job B would have.
Sometimes, although it may not seem like it, things just work out for the best.
I would caution you though against doing what some people have suggested and taking Job A with the intention of ditching it if Job B comes along. You burn your bridges that way and you never can tell in business when you’re going to need them again.
We had a girl at the last company I worked who went through the entire recruitment process for a receptionist job, signed the contract went through the two week training period and then simply didn’t turn up for her first full day of work. An hour later there was a fax saying she had been offered something better and wouldn’t be coming back.
A year later there was a call from a prospective employer. Job B hadn’t worked out and for heaven only knows what reason she had put our name down as a possible reference. We never heard of her again and I have no idea whether she got Job C… but I doubt it.
You never know.
I strongly disagree that its acceptable to take Job A while all the time holding out for job B and then just quit in a couple weeks. Companies hire because they need a person in a position. It costs the company money and time to train a new employee, and bring them up to a productive level. If they’ve done that for you, barring it being obvious that you and the company are a completely bad fit, then you owe them at least a year’s commitment.
Ferretrick, I have to disagree – the company wouldn’t hesistate in the slightest to fire or lay an employee off months or even weeks after hiring them (I’ve seen it happen on more than one occasion) and imo, loyalty has to be a two-way street. That being said, as another poster mentions above, it does burn a bridge to accept the offer then bail, whereas asking for a week to decide is usually pretty reasonable, and they’ll tell you up front if it doesn’t work for them.
“then you owe them at least a year’s commitment.”
By that token they owe me a year’s employment. I don’t think there’s that sort of commitment in the workplace (says the woman with 27 years at her employer…what do I know?) Still, it’s just bad manners & bad form to take a job intending to immediately ditch it.
And it’s just stupid to do what the employee did to Jade’s employer…what was that girl thinking putting them down as a reference? Wo!
Yeah, I’ll also disagree with e’s follow-up: while I understand the point, declining an invitation that has not been offered is incredibly rude – only one step below accepting an invitation that hasn’t been offered. If you were concerned about the request for registry information being misinterpreted as a grab for an invite, I’d say something along the lines of “I know you’ll understand that this in no way means that I expect an invitation – I’m just so happy for you two that I’d like to do something nice for you for your wedding.” If they’re good friends, (which they seem to be) they’ll understand.
I agree with ADS. I’m a bride-to-be next month, and nothing has caused me more stress than the guests and the list. I’ve had people assume they’d be getting an invitation and say they’re coming to my mom who hints to me to send an invitation which completely exasperates me. Then I have people assuming all kinds of things about whether or not the kids are invited (NO!).
Best not to stress the bride out. LOL I think ADS’ wording is a perfect answer.
I’m totally with Kristen (above) on this. I have been in situations where I was offered and took Job A and then Job B comes through before I start. I have also been in a position to offer Job A to someone which they accepted, and then took Job B.
It is acceptable to call the person with whom you will be working to say, “I am terribly sorry, I received an opportunity I can not turn down. I wanted to thank you for the opportunity. I was really looking forward to working with you.” This is business. It’s not like you’re dumping me for a supermodel. You’re doing what is best for your career. That’s what you’re supposed to do.
It’s also why, when I do interview people for a job, I don’t tell them the job has been filled until the person starts. That way I can always call the first-runner-up and say, “Guess what! You got the job!” withouth any fear that they’ll think they were the second choice.
Yep, as for the wedding question, I agree, emailing the bride or groom to ask for the registry info is not too forward, in general. BUT, there’s a good chance that, in a situation like this, bride/groom will think either (a) “Oh my gosh, does s/he think s/he’s invited?” or (b) “Oh my gosh, is this a passive aggressive way of saying s/he should have been invited?”. Because those kinds of emails definitely happen, the invitation hinting can be outrageous.
Anyway, for anyone in a similar situation, I would vote for something like what ADS suggested, or at least something that implies you know you’re not in a position to expect an invitation, like “I know I haven’t seen you two in a while, but I just wanted to send you something to celebrate!” :)
I had a similar crash and burn with a friend of over a decade. He just didn’t get it, and it was made worse by the fact that he did not like my husband…though I think he would have disliked anyone I chose to marry. I cut ties June 2007. Have heard nothing from him since, but still have moments when I wonder if I made the right decision…and wonder if I should try to get in contact with him again.
Then I hear Sars’ voice in my head (having read this site for years and being a big fan) saying : “It’s over. Leave it.” This would be one of those situations. You are happier without him in your life. Leave it be. If he didn’t get it before, he won’t get it now.
loyalty has to be a two-way street.
Absolutely. Companies wouldn’t hesitate to fire you if you weren’t working out or if they were suddenly in a cash-crunch (especially if it’s an entry-level position). I agree it’s not likely that they’d hire you and then turn around in two weeks and fire you “because someone better came along” but owing your employer a year? I don’t buy it. Even if you do sign a contract, it will have an out-clause, saying that you owe them/they owe you so many weeks’ notice.
I agree that Working Girl should try every other option that’s been mentioned here before doing the take Job A and ditch if Job B comes along thing, but in my opinion, the only reason she should eliminate that option altogether is if A and B are in the same industry/field/whatever. In any community, word is going to get around, and in that case taking that option would hurt her. But if the two jobs have no connection, and she doesn’t foresee wanting to work with Company A again, there’s no reason she shouldn’t take Job B if it comes along.
I am the HR manager for an employer that was considering hiring a guy I’ll call Scott. I also happened to know Scott personally, so I know how his story worked out. My company was his Job A. (snif! snif! I think we’re a great employer! But alas, I know we were his version of Job A.)
He turned us down, and he didn’t get Job B. He stayed where he was. He was not happy. We came back to HIM, and offered him a job again, and again, he stuck to his guns and stayed out, figuring that even though we offered him more than he was making, plus, an escape from a job he hated, he figured that it would be better for his long term career goals if he reserved his professional energy for his active job hunt, and stayed in his currently crappy job, rather than jumping to a new job where he’d have to learn all sorts of new systems and processes, and that would take some of the sharpness and focus off his job hunt for his dream job, the eventual “Job C.”
His determination paid off. He stayed with the crappy job for almost another year, but then when he found his Dream Job, it was AWESOME: challenging, fun, great people, and making UNGODLY amounts of money. He is basically set for life now, and this job, Job C, is the place he’ll reture from (and he’s in his 30’s, and won’t have to work forever.)
Don’t take a job you don’t want, unless you’re about to be evicted from your apartment, you have zero savings, and your current employer is about to fire you, go out of business, or your boss is causing you grave emotional or physical harm. Don’t put your time and energy into a job you don’t want. You have to say NO to the good so you can say YES to the best.
@ Margaret
I don’t know what she was thinking either, but our guess was that she had pulled the same stunt at a few different places of employment and was running out of referees.
Maybe she hoped that whoever was handling HR would be new and not remember her…
Working Girl – Sasha’s advice (first response) is right on the money.
Funk – DON’T contact D. Just forget him. Also, it is not a good idea to make excuses for Asperger’s behavior (I have a co-worker with Asperger’s and OCD and he can be a real pain in the ass). D needs to be called out on his BS behavior just like anyone else and/or dumped if he persists in the BS behavior – you’d do him no favors by excusing/enabling him because he’s got Asperger’s. Also you definitely did the right thing by cutting off all communication.
Job Search – you can easily stall for a week and offer reasons unrelated to looking for better offers. My mom did that a year ago and she said she wanted to better under her health insurance options and benefits. It’s totally legit to need more time to understand those things, so it’s a good excuse if you don’t feel comfortable hinting that you are hoping for a better offer.
In regards to the work situation, I have to agree that taking Job A with the intention to ditch it when Job B gives an offer is bridge-burning. What Sars and Sasha said is the best way to go in terms of business etiquette.
I could also add that if you are really interested in Job B and haven’t heard from them in 2 weeks, give them a call to ask about where they are in their decision-making process. Then, don’t call again until a) you hear back about the results or b) at least another week to week-and-a-half has gone by, whichever comes first.
And for what it’s worth, I think that the most you’d owe a company who hires you and trains you (assuming it’s a position you’re not 100% sure you want) is 3 months – the same amount of time as most companies use as their new-employee probation period.