The Vine: April 27, 2011
My boyfriend and I packed our things and moved from Florida to his hometown in Connecticut about six months ago — on the whole, it was a good move. We both hated the south and love it here, it brought me closer to my old home on Long Island where my brother lives with his wife and 18-month-old twins (who pretty much owned me from the moment they were born) and my boyfriend’s family is here. I hadn’t met them before we made the move, but for the most part they’ve all been wonderful to me — I adore his mother, sister, and brother.
Mom and Dad are divorced; Sister lives with Mom across town. Dad and Brother live two doors down from us in the same small apartment building. Unfortunately, I can trace most of the problems we’ve had since we got here — and there have been some big ones — back to his father.
The whole thing has gotten so tangled that I don’t really even know where to start, to be honest. He can be an absolutely wonderful, but he can also be a lazy, selfish, deeply inappropriate person with no sense of when he’s crossed a line. Some of the stuff he does is just little day-to-day nonsense like sending his sons to bring him things from downstairs (or the kitchen, or the table two feet away) because he doesn’t want to drag his grossly overweight self off of the couch — l’ll probably always have to grit my teeth and pretend I don’t think he’s a lazy bastard, but it’s really not that big a deal at the end of the day.
Less insignificant — Brother (he’s 18) doesn’t have a license yet, and Boyfriend and I help them out by bringing them to work, picking up, dropping off, lending one of our cars. Usually we’re told, not asked, to do this. Right now, Father’s truck has a flat, he just got paid on Friday and didn’t replace it (spent his money on drugs) and now we’ll be expected to help make sure that Father and Brother get to and from work for the rest of the week.
Oh, and said drugs? Were shared with a sixteen-year-old friend of Brother’s. I’m no angel, but I’m a legal adult, and so was everyone else present. If something had gone wrong, Father would be in a whole hell of a lot of legal trouble, and I just pointed that out to Boyfriend and was basically told, “Fuck that, the kid knew what he was doing.” Kid’s still a minor and not Father’s son, but now I’m getting the silent treatment for “blaming it on [Father].” This is the man that also sends his sons out to buy pot whenever he wants some.
Father also has a habit of saying really, really inappropriate things. I was in the car with him and Boyfriend waiting for Brother to leave the store one day, and a pregnant woman (who none of us knew) walked past the car. Father interrupted his own sentence to say, verbatim, “Should have swallowed, bitch,” and then continued what he was previously saying. Now, this woman didn’t hear him, and Father didn’t mean her to — the windows of the car were shut — but it’s almost worse for the fact that it was just an offhand comment that…nobody even really thought twice about. I don’t think I should have to listen to things like that.
Boyfriend has gone on the record with me saying that if I can’t accept his dad, it’s probably not going to work out. I feel like I’m being asked to accept a hell of a lot in the name of keeping the peace around here. Father is a very excitable person who doesn’t take well to being called on his bullshit, or even being told “no” when he asks someone to do something, no matter how big a hassle it is for them. (I did his taxes this year, and never once got a thank-you.) Brother and Sister have also told me that nothing is ever going to change. Boyfriend tells me that I don’t have to go over Father’s house to visit when he does. That’s all well and good, but it doesn’t mean he’s going to stay home with me — and he spends enough time at his dad’s that for me to stay home would significantly cut the amount of time I get to spend with him. I told Boyfriend that, and all I got in return was a shrug. So it basically doesn’t matter to him.
I don’t know what to do. I’ve probably done more bitching about the whole situation than I should, and I’ve been trying very, very hard to stop that, because I know it bothers Boyfriend to hear me talk about his father, and it’s natural for him to defend his dad, but it bothers ME that I’m expected to put up with all this. I know that not everything is happy-fun-times when there are in-laws involved, but this is all a little beyond the pale in my opinion, and I feel increasingly like the least important person around here. I don’t have any family in this area — my parents are still in Florida and my brother is a three-hour-drive away — and it’s very, very difficult for me to not have anyone in town that’s mine, if you know what I mean. Most of the people in my life right now are Boyfriend’s family and social circle, and it’s difficult to get away from that even at work, because we work at the same place.
I don’t want to leave this guy that I love because his father’s a jackass sometimes, and I’ve already made the decision to hang on through the last half of our lease, get us the hell out of this apartment and away from living thirty feet down the sidewalk, and then see how things go once we’re not all in each other’s back pockets — but it’s hard. And I’m tired of the arguments about his dad’s behavior that end with my boyfriend angry and me in tears. I need some insight or opinions from someone who isn’t in the center of all this. Help?
At a Loss
Dear Loss,
Leave. You have no family in the area, really; you haven’t made close friends; you have no allies, nobody who is on your side. Your boyfriend’s father is a skeezy felon, and your boyfriend has made it plain in a number of ways that he will not stick up for you. He didn’t choose you. He doesn’t care about your feelings. Even if you do move away, how can you unknow that, that instead of volunteering not to go to Father’s so much, or supporting you in your frustration, he “shrugged” and gave you the silent treatment? (I assume it’s Boyfriend who’s doing that; the antecedent is a little unclear.) The…silent treatment. What’s next, he’s going to refuse to trade puffy stickers with you? Fuck off!
The whole thing sucks, and accepting that means accepting that, through no fault of your own, you’ll have to start all over somewhere else — that sucks too, but that’s what you have to do. Tell your boyfriend exactly what you just told me. …Actually, scream it. Have a big old gory-opera breakdown. You hate that you have no one, you hate that Boyfriend has chosen Father over you, the whole family’s relationship with itself is pathological, and you’ve had it. Good luck with the cops and the inevitable debts and all the rest of it — you’re out.
Understand: you don’t do this to get Boyfriend to beg you to stay; he won’t, and on the off chance he does, you shouldn’t. You do it so that you can go on the record with how he fucked up, and make him feel like shit, but it isn’t going to change. Everyone else in the situation has told you as much, and the doing Father’s taxes this and the ferrying an adult sibling around that…loyalty to family is important, but Boyfriend’s attachment to the situation is well beyond a healthy allegiance.
Understand also that you’re not leaving because Dad is a jackass. You’re leaving because Boyfriend is a jackass. I mean…with the shrugging? Really? Because I’d have packed a bag that night. Let’s see how blasé he is when it’s just him and the rent. You have your own life to find, and it doesn’t involve working for free and getting told constantly that you don’t matter, so start looking.
Again, it’s horrible, it’s a lot logistics-wise, it feels like you failed…I know all that. But either he doesn’t love you, or he’s an unconscionable pussy; neither of those is workable. You can do better, so go do better, like right now.
Tags: boys (and girls) the fam
Amen, Sars.
This is a terrible situation, Loss, and there’s no solution in staying that will not compromise your sanity, your safety, and even your freedom– as I do not believe that Daddy Dearest would take the fall for supplying drugs to minors. Leaving will hurt like the devil, but it’s the only way for you to have the chance at a life in which you are not subjugated to this kind of stupid. Good luck.
Oh, big hugs, Loss. This is not going to be easy, but Sars is right. Leaving is the only answer to this situation, and the sooner you get it over with, the better off you will be. The entire time I was reading this letter, it wasn’t DAD’s behavior I was appalled by. I mean, yes, obviously–gross in so many ways. But the fact that boyfriend is not on your side about any of this, ever, at all…that’s a big red flag, right there. Yes, family is important, but loving your family and allowing them to treat your live-in girlfriend like a doormat (…and kind of treating her like one yourself, honestly) are two entirely different matters.
I’m with Sars: Leave. It’s the only path to happiness here. (I’m sorry!)
Totally agree with Sars on this one. The situation is not going to improve. The only thing I would do differently is to leave without making a scene – reason being is that if you explode in screaming rage at him, then he can tell himself that you are a bitch and he’s better off without you. Exit on a high note and let him realize what a jackass he is and that your leaving is his fault.
Here here, Sars.
Loss, you definitely need to leave. And be prepared for comments like “You’re being selfish and unreasonable,” “This is my family. You’re forcing me to choose between them and you. I’d never do that to you,” blah blah blah guiltcakes. Shut that noise out, and don’t respond to any accusations. Tell him pointedly that you’re moving out because they’re right — nothing is ever going to change. But what can change is your exposure to all of this toxicity.
Stay with your brother, if you can, until you find your own place. Move back to Florida, even if it’s only temporarily (because you said you don’t like the south). Just don’t stay there anymore. I say this to you as someone who pretty much had to do the same thing (but I was married and leaving a husband), and I was and still am much better for it.
Good luck to you.
Agree with Sars 100%.
You deserve so much more than this from a serious relationship – like someone who sees eye-to-eye with you on such issues as giving drugs to minors and degrading comments about women. You deserve to be the most important person in your SO’s life, not the one who takes all the crap.
And if you did stay, where are you going from here? From personal experience, I can tell you that whatever your roll is in the relationship, for better or for worse, it only gets exacerbated when a couple gets engaged. I walked away from the one where I was second best to everyone else and was rewarded with someone who has treated me as a VIP for more than 14 years now.
I was reading this thinking, “She’s got to go.” I know logistically it’s a struggle – moving sucks, always – and you might feel like you failed, but you didn’t. Your boyfriend failed you (I was through with him at “silent treatment,” because I assume he’s not 8 years old), and will continue to fail you for as long as you let him. It’s only going to get worse as the relationship gets more serious – do you really want to marry into this? Your boyfriend’s father does not get to inform you that you will be dropping his other kid off, or loaning out the car you pay the note on. Fuck that.
Since you said you didn’t like the South, I’d go stay with/near your brother and his family on Long Island for a bit. It will do you some good to be around people you love who love you back and respect you, and you can be the doting auntie and have people in your life who are “yours.”
If your boyfriend has said that if you can’t accept his father, it’s not going to work, I’d call that bluff. “I can’t accept your dad, I can’t accept that YOU accept all the shady shit he does, and this relationship is over.”
Dad is a bully. He’ll continue to be a bully if no one calls him on his crap, which is what it sounds like will continue happening. You seem to be the only person who understands what’s really going on. And Sars is right, your boyfriend has chosen this bully over you. Why should you sacrifice for someone like that?
Dan Savage said it best, and I think he would fully agree with Sars here: Dump the motherfucker already.
You aren’t leaving him because of his family, but because he is clearly as ass. Everything you say about him in your letter screams “ass” to me.
I know it is tough to end a relationship where most things seem OK day-to-day, but this relationship clearly has no future, because he doesn’t value you the way he should. Even if he wants to defend his dad, the response to that conversation is never a shrug.
Holy shit, thank you Sars. The voice inside my head shouting “leave” got louder and louder as I read each paragraph. I was so glad that was your first word.
Loss, someone who shrugs and doesn’t take your feelings into consideration isn’t worth your time. It’s not even about Boyfriend choosing sides – it’s about Boyfriend respecting you enough to listen to your concerns and work with you toward a solution that will satisfy you both.
It will suck hard, but when you look back, you will be so grateful that you left.
Oh, this is just sad; I feel for you, Loss.
But as I’m reading down your letter, I’m wrinkling my nose and thinking, ‘geez, she’s got to DTMFA, and that’s just not gonna be easy.’
There’s no way this gets better. It only gets worse.
Oh Sars, I was so relieved when your first word to Loss was “leave.” This situation is awful and it’s only going to get worse. Loss, you deserve so much more than this. Love yourself enough to get yourself out of this toxic situation. Don’t look back.
Yes, I agree with Sars. Yes, this will be very hard and suck a lot. I’m so sorry you have to go through it.
Try to keep this in mind: not only does your boyfriend tollerate his dad’s behaviour, but he obviously doesn’t see anything wrong with it. Which means this is his example of how a grown man and father behaves and he has bought into it. Things will not get better, if anything he is going to start swinging closer to his dad behaviour-wise. If you stick around, do you want this to be your future? Because like Sars said, it will not change. It just won’t.
Like I’m_Goodman said, ask your brother if you can couch surf for a month until you get your bearings. Go back to FL for six months if you need to then head back out to somewhere else. But go somewhere, find someplace healthy where you are happy and a person who doesn’t think blatantly criminal, manipulative and/or mysogynistic behaviour from Dear Old Dad is just another Tuesday (or at least who isn’t OK with that being just another Tuesday).
Loss, switch the type of inappropriate behaviours, and you have me and my ex-fiance. I always came in second to his totally dysfunctional relationship with his family. Not to mention the fact that he could never honour my need to be heard or treated like a human being. I ended up depressed, having full blown panic attacks, in therapy to try to fix *myself*… The older we got, the more he became like his father. I realized I had to leave the day he yelled at me in his father’s voice and called me stupid. I should have left three years earlier.
I loved my ex – I still had love for him as I called off the wedding. But it was not enough. Leaving him was the best thing I could do for myself. Leave your boyfriend before you own a house and share a bank account and it becomes even harder. (It will always be very, very hard.)
Life goes on. I’ve been married to my wonderful husband for a year now, and I still get chills at the thought of what my life would have been like had I stayed with the ex.
Good luck.
I agree with Sars, too. It’s a bad situation that’s clearly really upsetting you, and your boyfriend is being incredibly insensitive to your feelings. You can do better than him. Is there any way you could get a job closer to your brother? If you don’t want to live in the South, that seems like the best way for you to get the support you need after what’s going to be a difficult breakup.
If your boyfriend pretty much approves of what his dad’s doing: smoking up with minors, calling women bitches, etc., then chances are he’s going to *be* his dad some day. Unless you think marrying that would be awesome, I suggest you don’t stick around.
Chiming in with more agreement here. And for the record, people have been known to choose significant others over family. My boyfriend had to do it. His mom started trash-talking me to him behind my back and blaming me for what she saw as new “faults” in him. Turns out, he doesn’t believe in God and is a liberal – clearly MY fault! He realized he was only comfortable even talking about those things with her because I made him feel self-confident enough to own his beliefs. When she started bad-mouthing me to the rest of her family and telling Boyfriend I wasn’t welcome in her home or at family functions, he picked me. He said she was unreasonable and that if they wouldn’t accept me, they were losing him as well because I was an important part of his life. There were some nasty email exchanged and then, after one last bravado of “officially writing ihm out of her will” there’s been no contact between them.
And my point is, my Boyfriend is happy. He’s sad, sure, that his mom went a bit loony, but he recognizes that it was HER problem and that we are in a great stable loving relationship and that is more important than her weirdness. So people CAN and DO choose wisely. And you, dear Letter Writer, deserve someone who chooses wisely. :)
You have got to stop giving boyfriend a pass on this. You state that you can trace most of your problems back to his _father_. Nope. Wrong answer. Boyfriend has not supported your needs, has left you alone to spend more time with daddy, has given you the “love me, love my dad” line of crap. You deserve better. How do I know this? Because you’re a human and no one should be treated this way.
No one wants to hear this about someone they love. I get it. But it’s not going to get better. I know you want ways to cope or change other’s behavior. But you have a situation with a nasty, close-by dad and a son who allows this bad behavior to happen at the expense of your feelings.
Leave. Don’t feel guilty. You gave everyone plenty of chances. You need your life back.
I’m going to second (third, fourth, whatever) what everyone else has been saying. You have to leave. I know it’s going to be hard, and I know you are going to think of a million reasons why you can’t leave, so I’m going to suggest that you do the following: close your eyes and imagine a future where you are bringing a child into this situation. Could you put this hypothetical child into this situation? Or, given what you’ve said about how much you love your brother’s children, imagine that you have to take care of them for an extended period of time – say for a month. Would you be comfortable having them around your boyfriend and his father? If the answer is no, then ask yourself why you are willing to put yourself and your happiness at risk. Love yourself as much as you love those children, real or hypothetical, and get out.
I obviously don’t need to chime in about leaving. (LEAVE.) But I just want to say that the illegal stuff aside, if someone made such a vile, mysoginistic comment about a stranger walking by in my presence, that would get called out. And if they did not respond with an “im sorry, that was innapropriate”, I would not be around them again. In-laws or not. No. Skeevy.
Leave now before the physical violence begins (if it hasn’t already). I know you didn’t mention anything to that effect in your letter, but the tension is there and will escalate if you stay.
Be safe and proactive in getting out now, before your lives are even more entangled than they are already.
I’m sorry, Loss, this sucks. I just want to reiterate something Sars said: it’s easy to blame the situation on Boyfriend’s nightmare of a father, but the real reason you need to leave is because of Boyfriend’s response to the situation. He isn’t on your side. He’s said if you can’t accept his dad, your relationship probably won’t work out. Take him at his word, not because you can’t accept his dad, but because it’s not right for him to ask you to “accept” his dad. I’m sorry, but: leave.
I’ll join the chorus: the problem is not the dad, it’s your boyfriend’s complete acceptance of Dad and the tone he sets. (I was all prepared to say “You won’t be leaving this guy that you love because his father’s a jackass sometimes, you’d be leaving this guy because he thinks his father’s behavior is okay and he’s made it utterly clear that your opinions and feelings are irrelevant to him” but Sars pretty much beat me to it. Of course.)
I could be wrong here, but I get the impression that with Dad and the 16-year-old, your gut reaction was “jeez, it’s wrong!” You knew that potential harm to the kid wouldn’t sway Boyfriend so you tried to focus on the potential harm to *Dad*. Is that…really what had you upset about the situation? That Dad might go to jail? Take a moment to think about what this says about Boyfriend (that you couldn’t discuss this in terms of moral choices) and also about the extent to which continuing to live with Boyfriend requires you to compromise and obliterate your own boundaries and your moral compass. Is this the life you see yourself living, the person you want to be? If not, then please get out there, pronto.
Something else that jumps out of me, which I haven’t seen mentioned yet, is the addiction aspect. (I hope some of the Nation can speak to this from firsthand experience, since mine is based on reading years of advice columns and self-help books. End caveat.) Boyfriend is the child of an addict, one who sounds like he has the potential to be quite abusive; this has clearly affected his (and Brother’s) view of the world and their role in it. Within the past 6 months or so, your Boyfriend chose to move across the country to live with his Dad (yes, I know, you’re 2 doors down, but from your description it sounds like that’s mostly just a function of the size of the apartments). We have to assume Boyfriend knew exactly what Dad was like, and what life near Dad would mean. He chose it. Do you really think that in another 6 months he’ll choose to move away from his Dad (thus abandoning Dad and all of his needs)? Why would he? I’m so sorry, but I’m afraid your fantasies of moving away from Dad and therefore extricating Boyfriend are just that, fantasy.
If you do end up sticking around for any time at all (even if it’s just to get your affairs in order), you might find it helpful to attend some Narcotics Anonymous or Al-Anon support meetings for families of addicts. Even if Boyfriend isn’t an addict, it might help you recognize behaviors Boyfriend is engaging in as a child of an addict. (Just to clarify: I am not suggesting you take this step so that you can feel bad for Boyfriend and decide to stick around because he needs your help. He chose to move back into this situation. You cannot help him right now.)
Now, as for getting out of there: Are you on the lease? If so, you should take a look at the Termination clause. You might be able to just come up with a fine for leaving. Or your boyfriend might be able to find a roommate. (If you are not on the lease, please don’t think you are honor-bound to stay. Honor might lead you to offer to help out financially even after you’ve moved out, but your boyfriend’s willingness to let you be used by Dad has left you vulnerable and trodden-upon.) It’s been ages since I had to think about lease issues; can any of the Nation offer good advice on this aspect?
I agree with what’s been said before me, especially Sars’s point that your boyfriend’s the jackass. I’d also predict that if BF doesn’t have a problem with Dad’s behavior, there’s a really good chance that BF will turn out just like him.
Agree with all of the above. If you’re still having a hard time convincing yourself to leave think of this: Dad raised boyfriend. Boyfriend sees no problem with Dad’s actions. If you have children with boyfriend, be prepared for the strong possibility boyfriend will be the same sort of father.
If your name is not on the lease, pack your bags and leave. You may love your boyfriend but from what you say in your letter right now you don’t seem to particularly like him and you need to be somewhere else while you figure out how and if you want to fight for this relationship.
Good luck, At a Loss. You’re obviously a strong person because you brought your problems to Sars and the TN group knowing that’s bunch who won’t sugar coat their opinions.
Oh my GOD, lady. What Sars said. Times a million. And if he thinks you’re an unreasonable bitch because you’re leaving, that would be HIS problem. Not your fault, and nothing to do with who you are.
Take your boyfriend at his word: if you can’t accept his dad, it’s not going to work out. And his dad’s behavior is completely unacceptable.
Your boyfriend is failing to treat you as a worthwhile person whose interests and beliefs and feelings he is willing to defend. This will not get better with time or marriage.
Leave, and do it as soon as you possibly can. Don’t wait for the end of the lease, because this is a soul-sucking situation. Do NOT get embroiled with this family, no matter how much you love his other family members. Your boyfriend is not treating you right, and you will never be shut of this mess as long as you are with him, even if you move to a different complex.
You have a nearby brother, and it sounds like you have a good relationship with him. Work with him on figuring out housing, and how to pay out your remaining liabilities under the lease if you have to. But don’t sacrifice your sanity on this family’s dysfunction, because your boyfriend is making ZERO effort to remedy the fucked-up dynamics here.
Sars is so, so right. I hate to say it, but Boyfriend sounds like a loser. I know it’s painful and heartbreaking to face, but his actions are telling you that he doesn’t care that much about you and you will always, ALWAYS come in second to his family. Fuck that noise. You deserve better. You deserve somebody who will stand up for you, who cares about your comfort and happiness and well-being. And if this were the sort of relationship to end in marriage (God forbid), you definitely deserve a father-in-law who is not a creepy-ass felon. Please, please do whatever it takes to get yourself out of this situation, and to get some perspective on why you think this is a good relationship for you to be in.
Your comment about your twin nephews make me think you will probably want children of your own sometime in the near future.
Unless there is evidence to the contrary, the baseline assumption is that people parent like their own same-sex parent. The fact that he does not see anything wrong with his dad’s behavior screams “Lack of Evidence To the Contrary”. Do you want this man raising your children like his Dad?
Stop wasting time on him and find a better guy.
Also you said it is natural for the guy to defend his Dad. This is how to defend ya lame parent: “You are totally right, he’s totally in the wrong, but he won’t change now, please try and tolerate him for some limited contact because I don’t want to cut him out of my life”. Here’s is how not to defend your lame parent: “Hey there’s nothing wrong with enabling a kid to take drugs”. Geddit?
Leaving is scary and hard, but I think everyone is right on this one. If it helps, imagine this behaviour going on a year from now. And then in five years. And imagine yourself ten years older, still having to put up with this, only worse because dad is more disabled now and demands more. Does that make leaving easier? Your boyfriend has already made it perfectly clear to you that he has no intention of accommodating your needs. Endure nothing.
P.S. Please, please, start looking for another job. I somehow missed on my first read-through that you and BF are working at the same place. Need to fix that, stat. Working together is a challenging dynamic even in a pretty solid relationship (speaking from experience here), and death to your personal and professional lives if that relationship is falling apart.
Also: Avoid the temptation to Get The Last Word In. Because that’s not going to happen; or, rather, there isn’t a way that you’ll get the kind of satisfaction you want out of it. These are not the kind of people who’ll look at you walking out the door and say “boy, I really fucked that up”. They’re going to say “wow, what a bitch! What was her problem? Well, better she’s gone, don’t want no crazy bitches in your life” followed by some joke (stolen from Maxim) about how crazy bitches are in the sack.
You need to be gone; that means gone, not sticking around begging them to admit their errors so you don’t feel guilty about leaving.
It also means things like not calling the police. Despite your description of obvious crimes and…odd things, the situation is a can of shit; and the only truth about opening a can of shit is that, at some point, you’ll get some on you. Maybe you’ll get it cleaned off, but is the end result worth it?
Ditto with the leave. Boyfriend is already showing himself to be like his useless father. It’ll only get worse. You deserve to be valued and treated with respect. Are this man and his father the kind of people you want to bring, even peripherally, into the lives of your brother’s kids?
Loss, what jumps out at me from your letter is your pleading, apologetic months, make it this: you don’t get people to treat you well by asking, you get them to treat you well by refusing to be treated badly. You own the power to insist on better treatment, but you’re handing it to your boyfriend and his nutty, nutty family.
Unfortunately I don’t think your boyfriend is ever going to treat you the way you want to be treated. I think you think that if you can just find the right way to ask for better treatment you will receive it, but it doesn’t work that way. He’s doing what he wants to do and for you to get out of this YOU have to decide that YOU don’t want to do it any more.
If you need to be sure that what you’re asking for is reasonable, I can give you that assurance. So can everyone else on this forum. Good, loving people do not treat others the way BF and his dad are treating you. You are just as entitled to good treatment as anyone else in the world and you are not selfish or whiny to insist on it. But, you should also get used to the idea that you cannot simultaneously have this family and good treatment because they are not people who treat others well. You have to choose.
You say that the situation has gotten tangled, but really, it’s pretty simple. BF and his dad think it’s OK to give drugs to minors, make appalling comments to pregnant women (!), prioritize drugs over basic necessities like transportation, etc. Yes, I said BF and his dad because they’re both accepting this behavior. It doesn’t matter how nice they can be at other times, the bottom line is that they are like this a lot of the time and this is who they are. Did you know that there are people out there who are really nice all the time? Really! I promise!
You remind me of me when I was in my early 20s. I had very poor boundaries and was afraid to insist on decent treatment so I spent a lot of time with losers like your BF and his dad. Life is so much better now that I realize that I am as entitled as anyone to good treatment.
Whoops, messed up while I was editing. Meant to say: Loss, what jumps out at me from your letter is your pleading, apologetic tone. If you can learn only one life lesson in the coming months, make it this:
I would avoid making a scene just so you can look back and say that you always acted with complete class and that when he calls you a psycho (which dudes nearly always do) you will know for sure he’s full of shit.
This also jumped out at me:
“Oh, and said drugs? Were shared with a sixteen-year-old friend of Brother’s. I’m no angel, but I’m a legal adult, and so was everyone else present.”
I think you need to take responsibility for your behavior here. If you thought this was wrong why were you participating? You live two doors away. If everyone’s passing around the bowl and a minor is present just leave. Dad is not the only one who would get in trouble there, and frankly, he shouldn’t be. You all contributed.
Your boyfriend backed a pusher over you. Go.
I think the fact that the boyfriend expects Loss to take a back seat to a man whose response to a *pregnant woman* was “bitch should have swallowed” pretty much says it all. Not to mention the fact that boyfriend was in the car when that remark was made and said nothing, again highlighting his *own* fundamental lack of respect for women.
I know the leaving part is scary and hard. You know you need to, and you know it’ll suck. Been there. If I can offer any advice, if it’s possible, go to your brother’s for a long weekend or so, and figure out a plan. With the stress and tension you’re living with, it’ll be hard to focus on how to move forward in that environment. It’s best for you to take a few days away from the situation and figure out what you want to do and what steps to take to extricate yourself from this situation. You can bounce ideas off another person who will care more about you than him. You can figure out where you want to live, what you want to do about work,and if you might need support when you leave. With his family so close, I wouldn’t put it past them to put themselves into this. Make sure you’re supported as well.
Loss agreeing with what others have said, especially the part about getting to your brother’s pronto. I’d say doit, even if you feel that you can’t and have to pretend to yourself that you’re not quite leaving, just having a break. Often when you’re in the middle of an awful situation like the one you’re in, it’s hard to keep perspective about how much you can’t breathe. A “break” might bring into sharp clarity the life you deserve to be living and give you the strength to get out.
Silver lining here, @Loss? That you found out NOW what a misogynistic, unsupportive, low-life jerk your boyfriend is. If you hadn’t moved to his dad’s back door, BF might have otherwise been successful at hiding the slimiest of his tendencies until after you had become more financially-entwined, or become parents. Because make no mistake about it: The behavior and attitudes that your boyfriend has unleashed since your move is NOT something that his dad suddenly caused. Those tendencies have always been there, and if you think back – assuming that you were together for more than five minutes prior to your move North – I’d be willing to bet that you saw glimmers of similar behavior and attitudes back in Florida as well.
I get the impression that you and your boyfriend are relatively young. I could be wrong in that regard, but your letter just gives off a vibe of someone who isn’t used to asking for what she wants, and doesn’t know that being treated with respect is not a “perk”; it’s a right you have in any relationship. You have a right to feel safe, and you have a right to assume that your partner will support you, respect you, and have your back … lather, rinse, and repeat until you believe this and won’t settle for anything less.
As a previous poster suggested, I hope you take some time to think – away from the Toxic Twosome of your boyfriend and his dad. Go to your brother and SIL’s house for a spell and open up with them as you have here. Ask yourself some tough questions: Do you want to have to worry about how to deal with joint bank accounts, a mortgage, family emergencies, or co-parenting with this guy (and his family) down the road? Is he the guy you want your future kids to know as “dad”?
The constant drug use, the pot parties that include minors, the lack of basic respect and common decency and work ethic – honking HUGE red flares are going up all over the place. I concur with the previous poster who wondered if physical abuse either is or will be an issue, as well. PLEASE distance yourself before you fall any further into the abyss. As difficult as it will be for you now, it will only get harder.
And, yes, try to find another job ASAP. I get the impression that these bozos will not have any compunction about making your life a living hell if they can, and that’s a scenario you don’t need to worry about every day at work.
If you are happy up North and want to remain in a place that offers a chance to experience all four seasons of the year, by all means STAY … build a life for yourself where you want to build it. But build the life that you *deserve*. Jobs, friends, fun stuff to do, intellectual stimulation – they are all out there for you, *wherever* you decide to call “home”. Get the hell away from your current situation as soon as you can, though – even if it means crashing on your brother’s sofa for a little while. Don’t let BF convince you that he’ll change, or that he looooooves you and can’t live without you; both are bullshit lies. And, by the same token, don’t let him bully you into staying by making you doubt yourself or your ability to make it without him. Again: You CAN make a good life wherever you choose to call home. Just don’t let it be anywhere near this guy or his family.
Hang in there, and best of luck to you – stay strong!
What everyone else says: Leave. Now. Rip off that bandaid and walk away ASAP. You don’t mention what line of work you’re in, but I guarantee that whatever it is, there’s other places to do it. And to do it WITHOUT a messed-up family connection in the same workplace. There’s 50 states and assorted territories to live in; so far you’ve only sampled a couple. When you have some distance between you and this clump of losers, get some therapy so that you can make better relationship choices in the future. Leaving will probably be the hardest thing you’ve ever done, but soooo worth it to save your sense of self.
And, if I were in your place, I would drop a dime on Dear Ol’ Dad after you’ve left. (But then, I live in NY state, where the laws are pretty draconian about pot and minors.) Your own best interest may vary.
I’d skip the dime-dropping, primarily because that will prolong her entanglement with/resentment by this family that much longer. She’s already shouldered too much responsibility in exchange for no thanks (the taxes, the chauffeuring); that needs to stop.
Oh, Loss, I’m so sorry–this must suck for you to hear, but I suspect you already know much of this, deep down. You sound like a caring, thinking person who knows, on some level, how fucked up that family dynamic is. My hope for you is that you are able to get out quickly and easily and are able to feel the awesomeness of you when you come out on the other side.
As a side note, what I found most upsetting about Dad’s behavior wasn’t the drugs or the laziness, but rather the casual verbal aggression toward a random woman on the street. That was rather chilling, I think.
Take care of yourself, and go wrap yourself up in those adorable twins and your family who loves you.
Go. And when you do, say your say. What they have to say about it after you’re gone isn’t your problem. The fact that you’re leaving at all will give them plenty of fodder for nasty comments, whether you do it gently or lay it all out there.
Say whatever you need to say to give yourself relief, or closure, or acceptance that you’re really doing this, and haul ass out of there. It’s not about them, at this point.
I’m with all the others – get out now while the getting is good. This guy is not going to change, his family isn’t going to change, and all they’ll do is drag you in deeper into the shit with them.
You can do it. It will suck, but you can do it.
Good luck.
I agree with the advice to NOT call the police; their behavior will eventually catch up with them, and you don’t want people this toxic to blame YOU for any of their troubles.
But it’s a good idea to consider the fact that the authorities ARE eventually going to catch on (these people don’t sound smart enough to cover their tracks) and do you really want to be in the room when the police come knocking? Saying “I wasn’t doing any drugs, officers, and in fact I strongly disapprove of them” won’t do any good if you’re caught in the same room with a bowl of pot and a minor. I also can’t imagine Boyfriend’s family would be willing to stand up for you either.
Put me strongly in the camp of This Will Only Get Worse. Don’t hope for Boyfriend to beg you to stay, don’t make a scene with the idea that Boyfriend will have a Lifetime moment where he’ll suddenly realize how wrong he was. Just leave, and good luck.
What everyone else said, plus this:
If you get tangled up in any kind of illegal drug anything, you potentially lose everything. The police can confiscate everything that can be moved, and some that can’t. You could lose so much. Your place to live, your car, your stuff, your right to vote.
Don’t just leave, run. And count your blessings when you get out.
Wow. I think I only got as far as “spent his money on drugs” part, and then the next paragraph, before the “Leave. Leave NOW” voice kicked in.
For me, “aiding and abetting a felony” is where the line is drawn, I guess. If you were in the room, they did put you in that position. There’s no good comeback for that, but apparently, Boyfriend didn’t even try — he doesn’t even see what’s wrong with it. Well, that’s it — get out the door.
I also think people are spot-on when they point out how chilling the exchange in the car is. Because it’s indicative of the violent, misogynistic thoughts they have towards women when they think the women can’t hear them. Sure, it’s worth asking whether Father would have been willing to say that in the pregnant woman’s hearing, or to her face. But that’s the point. It’s scarier that you have evidence of people who may put on a pleasant-ish face, but who engage in such vitriol behind others’ backs; yet also see nothing wrong with doing it in front of another woman. IThe Father doing it in front of you — and the boys not saying anything — reinforces to me the idea that you aren’t someone whose reaction they care about. ‘m surprised that it doesn’t make you wonder how Boyfriend (and family) talk about YOU when you aren’t there.
A few other things struck me about this letter.
First: it’s not that nobody has ever called Dad on his shit. Mom apparently divorced him, and Sister does not live with him. That’s… something. And I’d be interested to know more of the background on that. It at least suggests that Mom reached the point where she wasn’t willing to put up with him and just cut him off. If she could do it — married to him, with 3 kids — then you can do it; and the fact that she did it should make you think that maybe it’s a good idea.
Because other folks here are right. Boyfriend doesn’t necessarily have to turn out like Dad. However, he is giving every evidence of doing so. He’s sending up ALL the warning flags. Nothing that you’ve reported him as saying indicates that he sees anything wrong with all the crap his father does, and is just putting up with it because he can’t bear to make that final rejection. It all says that Boyfriend doesn’t think it’s wrong either.
You know it’s wrong. How can you possibly live with someone who thinks it’s fine? How can you trust that person’s judgement?
I also noted that the letter says you love Boyfriend, but it really doesn’t say one word about any quality of his that would explain to us why you love him or why you would choose to stay with him. We take it as read, because you say it, and because you moved from Florida to Connecticut at his urging. But we can’t see it. If you’re wondering what makes it easier for all of us to make this call, than it seems to be for you, that’s why. But isn’t it also a bit telling that you didn’t feel the urge, or the need, to explain in this letter why you love him? To give a more rounded view of him as a person?
It’s just making me wonder, a little, if “but I love him” has become a kind of habit for you, or a way of explaining to yourself why you don’t do something that you know you should do… but whether you really kind of stopped loving him as all this evidence of his asshole behavior has built up. Perhaps he does have some good qualities, that we aren’t hearing about here — you did fall in love with him once. And it would be really scary to admit that you’re out of love with him now, because in a way, that leaves you with “no reason” to have moved up here, and no reason to stay.
I think Boyfriend knows very well that his father is deplorable. I think he’s ashamed of it. I think deep down, whenever his father makes some revolting comment or selfish demand, Boyfriend’s stomach sinks because he recognizes the revoltingness and selfishness and knows that AAL is horrified. I think he’s desperate for his father’s love.
The fact that he handles this all with ever-vigilant defensiveness instead of honesty is a mark of extreme immaturity. I wonder if and hope that when AAL dumps him and makes it clear why, he’ll turn an emotional corner of sorts. Even if he does, though, a true epiphany will no doubt be a long time coming.
“Boyfriend tells me that I don’t have to go over Father’s house to visit when he does. That’s all well and good, but it doesn’t mean he’s going to stay home with me — and he spends enough time at his dad’s that for me to stay home would significantly cut the amount of time I get to spend with him. I told Boyfriend that, and all I got in return was a shrug. So it basically doesn’t matter to him.”
Boyfriend just told you that YOU DO NOT MATTER TO HIM, and not even in-so-many-words, he didn’t even give you that much respect, he just shrugged. He values doing drugs with Daddy more than he values you. Honey, you deserve so much better.
“I don’t want to leave this guy that I love because his father’s a jackass sometimes”
Don’t. Leave because the guy is a jackass all the time.
@clobbered Thanks for the “how to defend a lame parent”-advice. My very beloved family is sometimes mighty trying, especially for my partner. Half of our quarrels stems from things concerning them, or behaviour that I’ve learned (or not learned, sometimes) from them. It is not a very easy tightrope to walk, the family/partner one, to be honest. I do hope I’m not like Boyfriend, though, I wouldn’t just shrug it off. But I can’t do much about it either :-( except for agreeing that it is frustrating. I hasten to add that my family is just trying sometimes, not toxic! They are lovely, loving people, and my partner really likes them and vice versa.
As for Loss – I join the chorus. I might try the “I feel you are not hearing me, when I say that you spend too much time with your family and too little with me”, on the Boyfriend, but I doubt it would help.