The Vine: December 2, 2009
Dear Sars,
I’m looking for a great self-help book that can teach me how to deal with difficult people. Specifically, my sister-in-law Carrie.
If I spend too much time trying to describe her, it will only make me upset.I’ll write a short list of incidents to help you get a (sour, bitter, foul) taste, and perhaps you guys can identify her specific flavor of “difficult.”
1. She once told my family that we were terrible people who obviously don’t love her, because we never call her. I call her at least once a month. She has called me three times in 15 years.
2. She once screamed at me in the middle of Colonial Williamsburg that I was ruining her marriage, after I said, “Please be nice to my mom.”
3. She told my mother that she was a cold, evil woman and that’s why she has no friends. (My mother has been caring for my blind father for 20 years — it’s a little hard to take him to parties, right?)
4. Groom at wedding: “I’m so glad you could make it!”Carrie: “Well, you’re not making me FEEL very welcome.”
5. My dad made a remark about me living with a platonic male friend. She agreed, “Living with a boy is so wrong. I would never do that.” She secretly lived with my brother in college!
6. When my mom saw her first grand-baby for the very first time, she reached out to touch her and Carrie screamed, “WASH YOUR HANDS.”
7. Brother: “Remember when we used to beg mom for pretzels at Target?”Me: “Yeah, they were so good.” Carrie: “That is so rude. I never did that.” Brother: “You never begged your mom to buy you anything? Really?” Carrie (IN FRONT OF MY MOTHER): “I guess I was just raised right.”
8. Virtually everything that people say or do around her is punctuated with a negative comment “under her breath.”
9. She bought me Employee of the Month starring Dane Cook and Jessica Simpson for my birthday with zero irony, and returned The Office season two DVDs that I bought for her.
Oh, and the kicker:
10. I’m currently putting together a benefit concert to raise money as a surprise for my parents — my father had both of his legs amputated this year, and they will be spending thousands of dollars on lifts, prosthetics, and home care. When I told her about the concert, she said, “That’s pretty… tacky.”
When I have tried to stand up for myself or my parents (I am fiercely protective of them), or hint that I am hurt or offended, she will scream at me, yell at my brother, cry, throw things, etc.
I’m at the point where I don’t care if this affects my relationship with my brother. In fact, I am angry with him — he can fight the Taliban in Afghanistan, but can’t defend his own mother? (To be fair, Carrie is more frightening.) If it were up to me, I would write tell her exactly how I feel and write them out of my lives. However, she is the mother of the first and only grandchild in my family. And you can bet your ass that she is the type of woman who would use a baby as leverage.
So basically, I can’t do anything to change her. I can’t do anything to defend myself. All I can do is change the way that I react to her, and possibly learn how to forgive her for the things she has said in the past.
If it helps, she is an only child. I briefly studied psychology in college and self-diagnosed her behavior as Narcissistic Depravation.
Carrie is the largest — and sometimes only — factor of anger, stress and anxiety in my life. You’d think it’d be my father’s leg amputations, but he is so positive and hilarious that I can’t be sad around him at all. I’m not a self-help junkie, but the three S.H. books I’ve read (The Easy Way To Quit Smoking, The Feeling Good Handbook, and How To Win Friends and Influence People) have changed my life.
I would really love suggestions for a book with some tools/strategies/mantras about finding internal peace when dealing with her.
Sincerely,
She Makes Me So Mad, I Didn’t Even Change Her Name
Dear Mad,
That signature is an all-time Vine top five, so you’ve got that going for you, at least.Heh.
I don’t have any books to suggest, but my own diagnosis of Carrie is actually Attention Deprivation.It seems like anything that brings attention, positive or otherwise, to other people, or that serves as proof that other people are cared about and valued, threatens her on some primal level.I know how exhausting it is to deal with this personality up close, but looked at from a distance, it’s mostly pitiable — and mostly manageable.
You don’t specify how you react to her bitchy comments, but I suspect that she continues making them because they get a reaction, and because she perceives you as a threat to the attention she’s paid by the rest of the family, so the trick is to recalibrate your responses.Cultivate a pleasant, unruffled tone; practice it, and use it all the time, even if you really want to hit her.Rehearse neutral phrases like “I’m sorry you feel that way,” “Really — tell me more about that,” and “Well, different strokes, I guess.”
Because, you know, she wants a fight.She wants sides picked.She wants an excuse to feel beleaguered, and proof that everyone loves her the best and will defend her.Take a minute and imagine what it’s like to live in that head; try to find an angle from which you can feel that little bit of compassion that lets you leave the bait where it is, if that makes sense.And maybe try to find some common ground with her, an activity or a movie, something that you can leverage for yourself the next time she’s acting a fool.The idea is that, privately, in your head, you can continue to think she’s a horse’s ass, but I think the only way to deal with a person like Carrie is to give her to understand that you’re an ally.
Readers, if you have specific reading to suggest, please feel free, but the short version is that she’s marking her territory, and the way to get her to stop needing to do that is to stop standing on the border with your arms folded.Nobody likes having to be the bigger person when the smaller person’s obvious buttholery begs for karmic justice, but, you know, you have to live in the world.
Dear Sars:
Love the Vine, love the site, you’ve heard it a million times ’cause it’s awesomely true, so.I apologize in advance if this gets long and…ranty.
I have a brother, Pickle.Along with my mother, he constitutes the entirety of what I consider my family (…long story.Suffice to say, our father was more of a sperm donor, so in purely biological terms my “family” constitutes several half-siblings, a half-dozen stepmothers, and a paternal grandmother who can’t stand me).Pickle is a fairly awesome dude — he’s smart, laid-back, charming, and though he doesn’t bathe as often as Mum and I would like, he’s still fairly popular with the ladies.
Which is the root of my problem.He and this girl, Keeks, dated for a while.Then they discovered that when Trojan says “99% effective” it means it’s not infallible.So I became Auntie Ishi, and to my surprise (I’d never before been a huge fan of children), I adored the little bugger.He’s funny and cute and he made my biological clock go, “Hey, if HE turned out THIS awesome, imagine how awesome YOUR kids would be!”
Unfortunately, Keeks is…a freaking bitch.I hate her.In a “fantasize death scenarios” kind of way.She’s selfish and cruel and immature.Pickle worked his tail off to support his family, as he has a horror of abandoning his son the way his own father abandoned him.Keeks has never held a job for more than three months, because her co-workers or employers “didn’t respect her,” by asking her to do things like her stated job duties, or coming to work on time.She berated my brother on a constant basis, and had mood swings even I, the daughter of a manic-depressive, found mind-boggling.
And now that their son is 2 1/2, it’s become increasingly clear that she wanted a BABY, not a son.She routinely ignores him, is incensed when strangers fail to comment on his adorability, and uses popsicles and candy to distract him when she doesn’t want to deal with his requests for attention — which is all the time.She allowed their apartment to fall into such a state of disrepair that I couldn’t even bring myself to go inside, since she was too busy with the NOT WORKING and the weed-smoking to bother with things like doing the laundry or dishes, or cleaning up after an active toddler.
For the fourteenth time, Pickle and Keeks have broken up.They do this about three times a year, and usually they’re back together within a week, acting all gross and generally engaging in the most messed-up relationship I know.This time, Keeks was apparently serious — she’s moved halfway across the country, to live with her mother (who is pretty much Keeks Sr., if you catch my drift).She took the kid with her, of course.
But — and this is getting to the point — Pickle didn’t even really fight her.I told him to consult a lawyer, to get a custody agreement hammered out before she flitted across time zones, to at least get himself legally declared the boy’s father (he’s not on the birth certificate ’cause they aren’t married).He always made noises about how he was going to, how he wanted to, but instead he retreated into a cloud of weed smoke, and though he now nominally lives in my mother’s house he’s really just keeping his stuff there.
Mum’s fed up with his current behavior, and in agonies over losing contact with her grandson.I can’t even mention the boy around her or she’ll spend hours crying.And still, Pickle just ignores it all and gets high.
I know I can’t possibly understand the pain he’s going through, losing his son like this, but COME ON. I even did the legal research for him, found him a lawyer, and he didn’t do anything.Before she left, I considered siccing the Baby Police on Keeks, but a) she may be neglectful, but not in a way a court would likely find significant, and b) Pickle’s not going to come across as a better option, what with the maryjane-flavored blood and all.
Now, I don’t know what to do at all.Is it time to just admit that Pickle doesn’t have the sense to pull his head out of his ass and fight?Or do I continue the supportive-sister routine and just listen when he needs an ear? Is there any more I can do?Is it even my responsibility to do any more?
Thanks —
Auntie Ishi (and her increasingly demanding biological clock)
Dear Auntie,
First, separate the two issues here.One issue is that you love your nephew and you want to stay in contact with him, and Keeks has made it difficult, if not impossible, to do that.The other issue is Pickle’s ineffectual dealings with the relationship.
The two seem like the same thing, because Pickle has served as your connection to your nephew, obviously, but you do need to distinguish between them, if only because Pickle’s life is not yours to run.You can disapprove of his reactions, they can cause you agita because they affect your relationship with the boy, but you can’t boss him; he’s an adult, and while doing legal legwork for him lets you feel like you have some control over the situation, and can help, it isn’t really…”supportive,” exactly.It’s getting out in front of the situation for him, and a lot of people confuse them, but “support” means “support” — not “do.”
Keeping tabs on your beloved nephew is another matter; you should do that on your own.Keeks doesn’t sound like much of a prize, but if you want to keep knowing the kid, suck it up and do what it takes to deal with Keeks; if it’s important to you, do what you need to do.Tell Pickle, sure, and keep him in the loop, but again, separate it from what you think Pickle should do.
And as far as getting Pickle to assert his parental rights, well, see above.I think he’s depressed, smoking pot all day isn’t going to help with that, and you could suggest to him that he talk to a counselor because you hate to see him stagnant and unhappy — but don’t make a list of therapists, don’t nag him about the pot, don’t do for him.He has to do for himself, and if this is a pattern with the two of you where you try to fix shit for him all the time and he just kind of drifts, it’s up to you to break the cycle.”I hate that this is happening, I think you could really benefit from some legal and emotional help, and I’m here for you if you need anything.”
I agree that, if Pickle doesn’t pull it together and get proactive about the situation relatively soon, it’s going to get out of his reach in a hurry, and he probably knows that and feels overwhelmed — but his son is his responsibility, to take up or put down.The responsibility you feel as the aunt is a different matter, and you can approach that however you see fit, but Pickle simply is not dealing, and you can’t force him to.People gotta learn things for themselves.
Hi Sarah —
I’m recently reliving my “RBI” vs. “RBIs” debate in my head and I was curious where you stood on the matter.
I had to write a press release last week involving “County Animal Rescue Teams” — with the already-accepted abbreviation “CART” — which in my mind is already plural.
Except that each County has one Team, and while most of the time, I was writing about all of the teams, there was one sentence in which I was talking about only one of them — and I got confused.
This probably doesn’t make any sense, and I decided that it didn’t really matter because no one other than trained sports journalists and us grammar nerds even pay attention to the “RBI” vs. “RBIs” debate, so I just made it plural (CARTs) when needed for clarity’s sake.
Couldn’t help but wonder what my grammar go-to lady thought…
Dear Lady,
I’m fine with either.Yes, RBI is already a plural, since it stands for “runs batted in”…except when it stands for a single run batted in…and the rules of grammar exist to promote clarity in the first place.You could also argue that, in its acronym form, RBI then becomes a singular (see: when it’s written out phonetically as “ribbie” or “ribbies”), though I doubt purists would accept that argument.
Some people can’t abide “RBIs,” but as long as it’s consistent throughout the document and/or with the house style, I don’t have a problem with it.”CART,” same issue (compounded by the fact that the acronym spells another noun that is then a singular).Whatever gets the intended meaning across is what you should use.
Tags: grammar kids the fam
@Annoyed and SorchaRei:
I find your takes on Mad interesting because (and I apologize in advance to Mad if I’m way off base here), when I read this letter, I kind of got the impression it was made up. I think it was at the point where she mentioned that her brother was a vet. Not that he couldn’t be, not that there aren’t families where the father is a blind vet, the son’s a current vet, and the mom is incredibly selfless. . . . But I was struck by how martyrly (not really a word, I don’t think. . .) everyone seemed. And I agree, #9 seems like a silly complaint.
Then again, I’m constantly amazed to discover that people who behave like Carrie do really exist, so I’m sure the reverse must also be true. (Ech, I kinda felt like maybe my last comment was really mean to Mad.)
Thanks SorchaRei for clarifying a lot of what I was trying to get at.
It’s not that I don’t understand how “I wasn’t raised that way” can be perceived as a slight against her mother. It’s that I think the tone-deaf SIL didn’t MEAN it that way. She meant it as a knock against this FAMILY, because that’s what rude and tone-deaf people do. They assume that THEIR upbringing is better, because it’s different. Carrie was reacting to the pretzel/sibling story & connection. As an only child, it’s reasonable that she really doesn’t know what behavior is common of siblings or that her own parents were overly strict. At face value, I presume her response was meant to irritate and break the siblings nostalgia, not specifically to denigrate the mother. Who knows? In my family, it would be considered rude, but we’d probably just say, “Well, we can’t all have perfect families…”
That said, that was not my main point. The main point that I think SorchaRei did a better job of highlighting is that Mad has a long list of complaints, some are very legitimate, some seem petty. Some require a context in which Carrie is PRESUMED to be the party in the wrong. That’s why it would help Mad separate the stuff worth getting aggravated about from “everything Carrie does is wrong and an insult.”
I agree that once you figure out what behavior is truly horrible and what is merely annoying to you, you can make better choice about how you’re including this person in my life. I think Mad and I have the following in common:
1) A relationship with a sibling negatively affected by the SIL;
2) A concern about the way our parents are treated by the SIL;
3) A desire for good relationships and role models for the children in the family (grandchildren who are your nieces/nephews); and
4) Genuine embarrassment for the SIL’s behavior in public.
Each is its own separate issue, and you have to separate them out to figure out what to do to deal with each problem. And if your list is something like that, you can start to see where some of the gripes matter more and others less.
I didn’t mean to suggest that MAD doesn’t have a legitimate story. Just that she probably was not seeing how much she has made herself and family victims and Carrie the evil one, to the detriment of finding solutions for the most serious issues.
As I noted earlier, I’m not looking for a way to change her. I’m looking for better ways to react to her. As in, I’m looking to help myself.
Hoobie, I agree that being an only child is not by itself a recipe for bad behavior. I should have added that she grew up on a farm with a handful of friends and parents who (of course) doted on her. Essentially, the center of her own universe. It was actually my friend Heather – an only child herself – who suggested that it may be a factor. I apologize if that was offensive. I was just noting as many facts as possible.
And SorchaRai, I noted earlier that #9 was just an example of her tragic sense of humor. Trying to sum her up as best as I could.
I’m aware that I’m not perfect, and I have no problems with people who could be labeled “difficult” or “annoying” or even just “lame”. I fall into those categories myself, I’m sure. I actually do see a therapist regularly, which is one reason I’m trying to change the way I react to her.
Due to her tantrums, my brother has lost all of his friends except for one, and my parents have lost 2 friends. (She starts a fight and insists on an apology. Eventually, people put their foot down.)
I’m aware that her behavior stems from insecurity. Everyone is allowed to be cranky and lose it occasionally. But when the majority of your social events end with you screaming, crying, or feeling offended… the problem certainly isn’t with everyone else.
“I guess I was just raised right” is uttered about me with my mother in earshot, the speaker is getting whapped upside the head. Hard.”
By you or your mom?
By my mom. She won’t take her rings off, either.
@Mad – I don’t know which way you swing from a religious perspective, but I’ve been reading/studying Eight Mindful Steps to Happiness: Walking the Buddha’s Path. The book talks a lot about compassion and reacting to people with loving-kindness. The study hasn’t made me perfect, by any stretch, but every day I am more the person I want to be. It’s helped me to be less angry and more accepting. It might help you too. Good luck! (It sounds like you need it…)
I thought #9 on Mad’s list was mainly meant to be humorous… like Carrie has done this awful thing, Carrie has done that awful thing, and then she had the gall to give me a DANE COOK movie. (At least, I found it funny.)
Hay, this is the real Sars, it is me, the other ones just carry my name. As I read your story that sister of yours has a serious attitude-problem. She needs proffessional help. I think I know what’s wrong. She needs attention. Wance I was like her. Don’t be angry, makes things only worse. Then she gets her attentyion and she will do it again. I have a situation like that my self with my brother. He has become a succesful busyness man. He thinks that I am a retartet while I have become big on internet. Just wait for a while so both of you have time to think, not argue. Besides your both married. I think that is more important than go on like this. You both are healthy enough to go on by your self. These things emerge in your youth. I am sure there is what coused it! LET GO!!!
JFM Sars Angel of Revenge
[“Well, consider THAT sig stolen.” — SDB Sars Minister of Bees]
My response to Mad’s letter was also to roll my eyes, but not in a ‘this is all fake and too shovelled on to be true’ way, but more in a ‘God Almighty, why would anybody engage with Carrie in any capacity – what’s wrong with you, Mad?’ manner!
My advice would be this: do not engage. See her as infrequently as you can manage. If you do have to see her and she’s a nightmare, perfect the blank stare and the subject change. Walk away from her when she’s a dick. If your brother takes offence, tell him that he’s perfectly welcome to be married to a nasty piece of work with few obvious redeeming features, but that you didn’t sign up for that.
Seriously: you’re a grown-up and you can choose the company you keep. That includes family members.
Oh – and I echo the ‘it’s nothing to do with her being an only child’ sentiments elsewhere in the comments – I know plenty of perfectly charming and delightful only children (my husband included), and plenty of horrible people who had siblings.
Also, SorchaRai: when did my dad become a vet in this scenario? He’s not. He’s diabetic.
And I actually did blame myself for her hurt feelings for about 10-12 years (incidents like #2 caused me incredible amounts of guilt for… sticking up for my mom?). The anger and realization that I’m not actually the problem has been very recent, which is why it’s cause me so much pain.
I haven’t been glaring at her for 15 years. I’ve been feeling guilty for most of it, and now angry for the time wasted.
Daaang, that initial letter has taught me a lot about details and writing in general.
OH! And the reason #9 pissed me off so much was because she called my brother (in Iraq) to scream at him, and then he wrote a stern email to my mom.
Why? Because my mom mentioned that massages make her a little uncomfortable, so while she appreciated the thought, please don’t give her another gift certificate for one.
Yeah, it’s never nice to hear that your gift was off base or unappreciated. But that’s why I kept/watched that (terrible terrible) movie – I didn’t want to get yelled at – and was so shocked to hear her nonchalantly say that she returned my gift.
Mad – you actually watched “Employee of the Month”? You have gone above and beyond the call of duty.
anon for this one wrote:
“The hardest part of this approach is that you have to let go of any idea that you’re going to make her see that she is wrong, or see that you are a good person.”
It seems to me that this is one of those Basic Vine Themes that we see over and over. The writer says “there are all these horrible people who are making my life awful, how do I deal with it?” The answer is “find different people”, but that wasn’t really the question being asked. What the writer *really* asks is “how can I make these horrible people see how horrible they are”, and the answer to that is “you can’t”.
Regarding Mad’s own behavior, it is *always* my assumption upon reading Vine letters of the “such-and-such person drives me nuts” variety that you are receiving only one side of the story that clearly contains another side. “I asked her to be nice to my mother and she accused me of ruining her marriage” is clearly not the entire story. That doesn’t mean Carrie wasn’t wrong in the entire story, but obviously, that’s not the entire cause and effect of what happened. You are getting an angry person’s view of the person she’s angry at, and I think that’s fine — that’s how we all tell our stories when we’re asking for help.
I reacted the same way to the DVD thing, which was to think, “Okay, but now you’re super-hyper-sensitive to this because it’s her.” Ditto the tendency to overreact to things said to other people that are really none of your business. Mad is super-sensitive about Carrie; so what? The question is, “How do I spend less energy on this?” And the answer, to me, is really, “Decide to spend less energy on it.” She won’t get better. Take that as a given. If it ever gets any easier, you can be pleasantly surprised.
Sure, there’s a back-story, arguments between them that I don’t witness, etc. But that’s exactly how it escalated: “Please be nice to my mom. ” “I can’t stand this family. You stick up for her too much. (points to my brother) It’s ruining our marriage.”
When she starts a fight at 2 separete weddings of family friends (I didn’t even tell you about the other one – she wanted to hang out in the groomsmen room with my brother before the ceremony, and yelled at the wedding planner for asking her to take her seat) then it does become my business, because she’s a liability to my family. People have actually avoided inviting my entire family to events, because if they invited us, they would have to invite her.
And CK, THANK YOU.
I rest assure you this Carrie person truely exhists and she is truely as narcisstic and ugly on the inside. I’ve known Mad my entire life, and her brother, and the first time I met Carrie I was like gawd what a b…I mean “miracle child” which she just put into every 5 minutes of coversation at dinner. Apparently to her adopted children, such as me, Mad, and Mads brother, are less of children to their parents vs someone who was born to their parents, according to this shallow soul-less wretch of a woman. I’m really sorry for Mads family and the pain I’ve seen them go through over the years with this selfish brat of a woman who needs to be smacked with a rolled up newspaper.
One time Carrie needed to be taken to the doctor due to some burns she got on her arms. My dad selfishly took time off of work to take her to the doctor, and during this time she just complained about his driving, why the doctor was taking so long, how horrible her life was etc. My dad had enough of it and said that maybe she should just be grateful someones helping her out vs making her take the bus. She then bitched to her husband and Mads family about how horrible my parents are (which are lifelong friends). That didnt stop her from asking for my help in taking care of their 3 cats when she wanted to go visit her mom or whatever. Did I mention she lived 20 miles away and never thanked me or anything.
Anyway, Carrie is an evil person and Mad is totally not exaggerating in any way shape or form.
“Also, SorchaRai: when did my dad become a vet in this scenario? He’s not. He’s diabetic.”
I didn’t say one single word about vets at all. Please don’t attribute to me things I didn’t say.
I said that you are telling yourself a story about this horrible person that causes you to overreact to things that would not bother you if someone else did them. One way to lower your blood pressure and make it easier to deal with the genuinely awful things she does is to learn to recognize when you are outraged about something that would not matter if someone else did it.
In other words, your history with this woman is coloring every reaction to her that you have. This is understandable, but one of the biggest steps forward you can make is to learn to separate things into three categories:
1. Stuff that really is an affront that you can do something about. This is the stuff you have to focus specific efforts on.
2. Stuff that is really an affront that you cannot do anything about. This is the stuff you need to learn to have an all-purpose way of deflecting.
3. Stuff that is only an issue because you hate this person so much and are so reactive to her. This is the stuff you need to learn to LET GO.
Your list is a mixture of these things, and your inability to consider that some of the items are only issues because it’s her means that you are too tightly entangled in the situation.
I have said from the get-go that Carrie sounds awful and that your situation sounds difficult. But if your letter is an accurate reflection of your approach, then you are making it worse by not being able to remove the type 3 items from the burden you have to carry with this person. If you allow yourself to get upset about what present she gives you, then you are responsible for some of the burden she is on you.
The type 3 stuff will rub you raw, it will distract you from the type 1 stuff, and it will make finding a strategy to cope with type 2 stuff harder. It’s not saying you are a liar or that she is not evil to point out that you need to focus on the stuff that matters and learn to let the other stuff go.
Am I the only person that finds it alarming that Mad is linking to her personal blog here? Or am I just that damn old? Because that is a lot of family dirty laundry, fully aired.
@SorchaRei-your last response was beautifully written. It is very difficult when enmeshed with a completely toxic person to NOT sweat all the stuff they dump on you. But it must be done. For sanity’s sake.
@Mad I really think the advice SorchaRei has given here is truly beneficial to your situation. I also feel you may not see the support SorchaRei is offering-I don’t feel the advice was given as a criticism to you. I feel you do need to learn to separate between the small and big stuff (and to not sweat the small stuff) because the big things do require your energy to address them.
My own two cents is that you need to be polite but very firm with your boundaries. Do not enable unacceptable behaviour. If that ultimately means she is deprived of your company because she cannot behave appropriately, so be it. If your brother complains-gently but firmly state why this has occurred and let him and her deal with the consequences resulting in her bad behaviour. If this has greater ramifications for your family, unfortunately, they will also have to learn about good boundary setting.
Her behaviour is beyond your and your family’s control. You can only control your own behaviour. Do not expect her to change. Expect her NOT to change and all of your to behave accordingly. Having dealt with someone like this (former best friend and sister-in-law to fiance) I understand the difficulties you face. I went to a psychologist to deal with this and ended up having to walk away from former best friend which was one of the major factors that lead to fiance breaking up with me (choice between healthy emotional relationship vs dysfunctional family, dysfunctional family won. Go figure). At the time it was devasting and painful. Lots and lots of therapy let me tell you. Years later, I can see it was the best thing that ever happened to me. Truly. I feel I made a lucky esape. I hope your sitatuion doesn’t *quite* have such a drastic outcome. Good luck.
SorchaRai, I apologize! I was lumping you in with 2 other commenters who shared your sentiments but also referred to my dad as a vet. You didn’t and I’m sorry. Also, I do appreciate your advice. #9 was meant to be humorous mostly, but your advice is something I should always keep in mind when I am with her. Thank you.
And Abby, I should point out that before you made that comment, perhaps 10 people had clicked from Tomato Nation to my blog, and now I’m up to 100. I don’t think many people cared before, but now they are curious.
Many strangers know about my dad’s health thanks to the concert I threw, and honestly my SIL has a reputation that precedes her. No shocking revelations in this thread, at least to the few readers who may recognize me here. But you do make a valid point, especially considering my signature.
I’m glad Mad clarified the “dad =/= vet” thing. I read that in a couple of comments (but yeah, not SorchaRei’s) and re-read the original letter and all the comments like five times trying to figure out where that was coming from.
I agree 100% with what Grainger wrote, although it is, alas, not terribly helpful for those of us with “Carrie”s in our lives.
I was in a situation much like Mad’s several years ago, and the way I was finally able to get through it and come out whole on the other side was to go through a short course (~10 visits) with a therapist. She was a proponent of Rational Emotive Behavior Therapy (I didn’t know it at the time, but when I later talked about it with psychologist friends, they were able to pinpoint it instantly), and it honestly changed my life. I felt like I was the mayor of Crazy Town, because I thought I was acting rationally, and this Carrie in my life never seemed to be. The therapy equipped me to make healthy choices and establish boundaries for myself. The other thing that it really drew attention to, which I see echos of in Mad’s letter, was the idealized story I was telling myself about my family and childhood; the Carrie in my life was a prospective family member, and it ruined my internal narrative to have someone distasteful in that circle. Basically, the therapy helped me see what Grainger was saying above, in a way that I would not have been able to see on my own. It was also awfully nice to have someone else (someone with professional credentials, even!) tell me I wasn’t crazy.
Mad, are you sure you’re not in my brain? I have a fairly caustic sister in law who also happened to marry one of my good friends. The problems that generally arise with her are not with family outings and such (I’m married to her brother, so family outings I’m referring to are with HER family) but when she hangs out with her husband and his good friends (including me, and my husband) it always turns sour… or rather it used to. Here’s what we did…
We started being nice to her, like very nice, we ignored the caustic remarks she made, complimented her on whatever food dish she brought, asked her questions about her life and generally made a large group effort to include her in our conversations while being kind to her… she immediately stopped acting like a spoiled mean asshat…
I think part of the problem (in our situation at least) was that she was thrown into a group of people who had all known each other for upwards of 15 years, we are in a sense a second family to each other and she was scared and nervous we wouldn’t accept her and her way of dealing with that was to be an asshole to all of us first as a defense mechanism. We always treated her well, but you know how it is when you’re with your old friends, it turns to stories of “Remember that time?!” and everyone laughs and there’s just one person left in the cold… I’m not saying this will work for sure, but the phrase “Kill em with Kindness” wasn’t coined for no reason… If you think about it from her perspective, it’s scary being the only non family member in those sorts of situations… sometimes people make an unconscious decision to just be a dick ahead of time to make sure that nothing they say can be accidentally construed as being a dick… (I hope that made some sort of sense)
I know some will see this as rewarding bad behavior, but I see it as (agreeing with sars and earlier comments) rewarding good behavior, we ignore her when she’s a bitch, but while she’s just sitting quietly we engage her in polite conversation geared towards making her feel comfortable. Once she got used to us we have had to do this less and less, now she’s just one of the gang.