The Vine: December 29, 2010
Two weeks ago, my fiancé, J, went to sleep and didn’t wake up the next day. He was 31 years old, generally healthy, and we still don’t know exactly what happened. We are waiting for some more test results as the autopsy was inconclusive. I could write a book on how I’m feeling — distraught, sad, lonely, but that’s not the issue at hand, the issue is our dog.
We had been together for seven and half years. We got a dog four years ago, a Labrador I’ll call Lab. He lived at J’s house but I was his doggie “Mom” as J called me. I carried him in my lap when we picked him up at the breeder, took him to the vet for his shots, trained him to sit and stay, helped J leash train him, etc. We loved that dog like a son. Cesar Milan would not be happy with the way we treated him, he was the center of our lives. Every single person who knew J knew about Lab and how much he loved him. He carried pictures in his wallet. He would call home to “talk” to him when we were on vacation. Lab was everything to J.
We only lived together, officially, in the last year. This was due to his father. J was close to his dad and so when he lost his job four years ago, J took care of him. I, in my stubborn stupidity, refused to live with them because I thought it was wrong that his dad leeched off him like that (I still think that, but that’s another letter). Despite refusing to officially live together, however, I spent three or four nights a week at J’s house for the last five years. I pretty much lived there.
Last year after we got engaged, we moved in together — J, his dad, Lab and me. Financially, it was much better for us and J was sure his Dad was finally pulling himself together and would only be there temporarily (he’s still there). So we lived in relative happiness until this happened.
Two days after J died, I came home from visiting some friends and J’s dad told me that J’s mom and sister were taking Lab, that J wanted the dog to “stay in the family” — that this is what J wanted to happen, if anything ever happened to him. J’s sister was there saying things like, “J never really loved you anyway” and “he wouldn’t trust you with that dog” (she likes to hurt people when she’s in pain, she gets it from her dad). The combination of the two of them crumbled me. I was in shock and was having difficulty thinking in coherent sentences. I started bawling and saying things like “no,” “please don’t take him,” “I need him with me” and such. Essentially, I panicked. J’s family just looked at me like I was nuts. My friends hustled me out of there, worried because I was crying so hard. I stayed at my grandparents’ that night and when I came home, Lab was gone, moved to J’s mother’s house.
If I had been thinking straight, I wouldn’t have let them take him, I’d have gotten the cops involved if necessary, but I was still so overcome with grief I didn’t know what to do. Looking back I’m kicking myself for letting it happen.
I’m angry and heartbroken twice over. I’ve been able to visit Lab for short periods and I can see he’s miserable — J’s Mom has drugged him to keep him calm and started keeping him in his kennel most of the day. He’s so confused. I’m losing my mind. Legally, I don’t have any options, J and I weren’t married and Lab’s papers are in J’s name only. I have no way of refuting what they are saying J said while alive (there’s no will). I know he wouldn’t have wanted Lab ripped away from me like this.
To make matters worse, J’s dad still lives at my house (his parents are divorced). I have to see him every day. I’ve thought about kicking him out (the lease is in my name), making him suffer for what he’s done, but I feel like I’m dishonoring J’s memory if I do. But I also feel like I’m letting J and Lab down if I don’t fight harder to get him back. I’ve tried talking calmly to J’s mom but she just gets defensive, telling me it’s for my own good and she’s only doing what J would have wanted.
The anger is consuming me. I can’t work, sleep or concentrate on anything — just worrying about Lab and how I could get him back. I don’t know what to do at this point. I’m talking to a therapist, but it slow going and I’m just so angry — I want my damn dog. Aside from dog-napping I don’t know what to do. How do I move past this?
PSA to the Nation: make a will, whether you think you need one or not
Dear Will,
I’m so sorry for your loss.
Your first job is to forgive yourself, for everything. Forgive yourself for every bitter, irrational, uncharitable emotion you’ve felt since J’s death — including anger at J for abandoning you and putting you in these situations, which is completely normal and doesn’t mean you didn’t, and don’t, love him. Forgive yourself also for every situation you didn’t handle calmly and thoughtfully, before J’s death as well as after it, because you’re human. “I should have this with J’s dad, I should have that when they tried to take Lab” — well, maybe, but your emotions don’t follow a subroutine (and not for nothing, but neither do J’s family’s). You’re doing the best you can in a situation nobody saw coming.
The second thing is to understand that, however you feel about Lab qua Lab, none of this is about the dog. This is the almost inevitable competition to establish whom the deceased loved one honored and trusted more. This is the substitution of the things (or pets) the loved one loved for the loved one himself. This is, in the absence of the loved one, what comfort and purpose might seem to remain, horrible and inadequate and necessary.
It sucks, but it almost has to happen, in other words, and you have to acknowledge it for what it is and try to remember that it isn’t a comment on your fitness as a person or a fiancée, and it doesn’t go on forever.
In the meantime? Get a lawyer. I don’t recommend this for scorch-the-earth reasons, but rather because a probate attorney has seen hundreds of situations like this (and far worse), and is in a coolly objective position to advise you on your rights in the situation — and to communicate them to J’s family — that you are not. Yes, it could seem hostile to J’s family, but 1) you’ve tried other means, in vain, and 2) you need to try not to worry about that and focus on protecting yourself, and reducing your exposure to situations that will double down on your grief. Hire an attorney, one who’s recommended if you can (perhaps the readers can help there, if you’re comfortable sharing your location), and explain the situation to her — because part of what’s hindering your ability to move on is that you don’t know where to move on to, or whether you should, or what. I mean, I would advise punting J’s dad from the house pronto unless he can furnish a written agreement stating that he gets to stay, but I don’t know if you can, or if you can, how.
And keep going to therapy, and keep reminding yourself that this is hard and unfair and nobody can reasonably expect you to know exactly how to behave every minute.
Greetings:
Two of my good friends (call them Alice and Bob) are getting married to each other, and this is absolutely a good thing. They are getting married at a little mountain resort a few hours from where we live. In conversation with Alice recently, my wife (call her Carol) discovered two things: First, that they were thinking of asking me to officiate at the wedding, and second, that they wanted no children to attend.
The former is great by me; I officiated at the wedding of two of our mutual friends (call them Dana and Ed, with the former a very likely bridesmaid here) a few years ago, so I know the drill, and it would be honor to officiate at Alice and Bob’s wedding. The latter, however, is a big problem.
Carol and I have a baby (call him Frank) who will be a year old and change at the time of the wedding. We have no family in the area, and while we have a couple of babysitting options that would be acceptable for a few hours, there is no one (local or otherwise) with whom we’d be willing to leave Frank for a weekend. Frank is a mostly happy and outgoing little guy, but he’s also quite dependent on Carol and me. Perhaps that will change in a few months, but we certainly can’t count on it. So, leaving him behind while we go to the wedding is entirely off the table. (I can already hear a chorus of people in the comments ready to chime in with how their baby could be left with a babysitter for the weekend, because they are better parents than we are; I am quite sure they are absolutely correct, and I would ask that they enjoy their smug superiority in silence, because I could not care less.)
That leaves us with five options that I see: 1) I go to the resort alone. 2) Carol and Frank come with me, but they stay behind at the hotel while I go to the wedding and reception. 3) We bring a suitable babysitter to the resort, and leave Frank with him/her while Carol and I attend the wedding. 4) We convince Alice to change her “No Damn Kids!” policy so that Frank can attend. 5) I decline to officiate, and Carol and I both decline to attend.
Option 1 sucks, because I’ll resent having to leave Carol and Frank behind, and Carol will be none too thrilled to be left behind. Option 2 is even worse, since it forces Carol to drag Frank out to the resort so that they can both sit around the hotel for half a day or more. Option 3 is expensive and impractical, since I don’t know that any likely babysitter is going to want to kill their weekend to not attend a wedding any more than Carol does.
That leaves options 4 and 5. We would love to persuade Alice to reverse her policy, but it’s not at all clear how to do so. I’m not certain what made her decide to exclude children, but I’m sure she has (at least in part) internalized the pervasive clamor of advice telling her to be selfish and hold firm on it. Given that there doesn’t seem to be any sort of law prohibiting the exclusion of children from social events, Alice certainly has the right to do so. However, what the “It’s her Special Day and she should get whatever she wants!!1!” crowd fails to acknowledge is that sometimes the exercise of a right has consequences. Unless we can persuade her to change her policy (or find a sixth option), one of those consequences will be our absence from the wedding. Given that Alice will likely be quite upset about this situation, and given that Dana and Ed are closer to Alice and Bob than we are, this will put a very severe, and possibly terminal, strain on our friendships with all four of them.
One possible avenue toward the fourth option comes through Dana. She is pregnant, and will have a three-month-old infant at the time of the wedding. Leaving a near-toddler behind for the weekend is one thing, but leaving a newborn behind is another. Dana apparently told Alice that they’d “work something out” regarding the baby. My temptation is to ask Dana, privately, how she plans to handle the matter, and express that it is a very big problem for us. This might point us toward a previously unconsidered course of action, and it would provide a sort of back channel to Alice that might make negotiations go a bit more smoothly.
Carol is quite offended and upset about the whole situation; she just wants to decline the invitation and let the chips fall where they may. I would prefer a more diplomatic approach, if one can be found. So, do you see any way we can address this situation other than declining the invitation outright?
Being A Good Parent Sometimes Means Being A Bad Friend
Dear Parent,
I think it also sometimes means seeing selfish, clueless snubs where none exist, viz. the following comments in your letter:
I’m sure she has (at least in part) internalized the pervasive clamor of advice telling her to be selfish and hold firm on it.
[W]hat the “It’s her Special Day and she should get whatever she wants!!1!” crowd fails to acknowledge is that sometimes the exercise of a right has consequences.
Your current tone won’t get much accomplished, I can tell you that much. Yes, Alice may have bowed to pressure to “selfishly” exclude children — or she may just not have the budget to include the short set. Or the resort may have placed the reception in a bar, in which the laws of the state do not allow underage children. Or maybe planning a wedding is complicated, and Alice went with a blanket policy on the kiddos that would close off a few avenues of anticipatory planning and make her life a little easier, heaven forfend.
I don’t like the Perfect Special Day nonsense any better than you do, but I don’t see that here, and if anyone needs a high-handed reminder on rights having consequences here, I…think it’s you. Having a little kid can mean you don’t get to do stuff, or that you have to choose between a social occasion and family togetherness, and that can be tough. But…tough. You know? Way of the world; not Alice’s doing.
And you’ve gotten away ahead of the problem in the first place. Can’t you wait for Alice to ask you to officiate, and explain at that time that, while you’d love to, you would have to bring Frank along, for the reasons you’ve just outlined to me — and you don’t think that dovetails with her no-children policy? Can’t you, as a member of the wedding, ask for an exemption? Ask, mind you — not lecture her on the imminent “possibly terminal” strain on the friendships, not refer to “negotiations” as though she has fired an actual missile into Frank’s bedroom. Ask. See if she can make an exception.
If she won’t bend on the no-kids thing, well, do what you need to do, but both you and Carol have gone straight to “offended,” and I really think it’s not necessary. See what Alice actually wants to do, and if Frank can’t go with you and you don’t see a solution to that problem, decline the invitation and let the shit go. Lots and lots of situations don’t work for/with diaper-age children. Taking it personally each time this is the case is a waste of your time with no basis in fact.
Tags: etiquette kids the fam
If it were just an invitation to the wedding, I’d have advised Parent either to make the necessary arrangements for childcare or to decline graciously. If Parent is asked to officiate, however, I think he’s within his rights to ask if (not “expect that”) an exception can be made, since he’s not just attending but also playing a key role in the ceremony.
What I don’t understand is why Carol is so torqued.
Parent, you’re probably not reading these comments since you stormed off in a snit, but one thing you don’t mention in your letter is how old Frank is now, or how far away the wedding is.
If he’ll be a year at the time of the wedding, and they’re just starting to plan now, I’m guessing he’s pretty close to a newborn. And one thing you don’t seem to have thought of is how quickly babies grown and change.
Frank at 2 or 4 or 6 months (or whatever he is now) will not the same baby as Frank at a year. While Frank may find it horrible to be away from you now (and, more likely, you find it awful to be away from him), chances are when he’s a year old you won’t mind so much the idea of a night off, and he’ll probably be fine as well.
Also, if you can bear to imagine yourself in the position of a horrible, thoughtless, heartless childless person – think back to before you had Frank. Would the pre-Frank you think that Alice AND BOB (because, Jesus is it annoying that you’re putting this all on her. Just because she’s the one that made the phone call, it doesn’t mean this is solely her idea. It takes two to get married, you know) were being horribly selfish awful people if you’d heard they were having a childless wedding?
Probably not. Now ask yourself why your reaction now is so different. Is it because it’s YOUR child? If you wouldn’t have (or don’t) care about other people’s children being excluded, but do about yours, that’s something you should think about. That is, in fact, the very definition of “selfish”. Maybe you need to give some consideration to the thought that perhaps Frank’s arrival did not change the whole world. Just yours. And the rest of the world does not need to make accommodations for his presence on this planet. Harsh, I know. But true.
Can we now officially add “you’re obviously not a parent” to the list of instant argument-forfeiters? Say, somewhere between Godwin’s Law and the slippery-slope fallacy? It is just sooo played!
I’d like to point out that most babies I’ve met say they hate weddings — the same way they hate restaurants and R-rated movies and live theatre and cocktail parties. Parents generally do their children no favor when they drag them to grownups-only events. My child-blessed friends assure me that “being a parent means you have to stop being selfish.” Declining invitations is sometimes a necessary sacrifice.
I think the two letters Sars ran today are a beautiful illustration of the difference between (A) real, legitimate, major problems, and (B) drama queens (and kings, in this case) throwing hissy fits over nothing.
@Will: My heart goes out to you. I can’t think of anything useful to say, but know that we’re all pulling for you.
Parent,
It is hugely ironic that you’re calling Alice selfish, while at the same time complaining that this couple hasn’t thought of YOU while making decisions about their wedding. These people think highly enough of you to consider asking you to officiate their wedding, so you may want to rethink acting like they’re somehow the bad guys. There ARE no bad guys in this situation.
This is their wedding day. Yes, they get to be “selfish” about it. They are laying out a crapton of money so that they can start their union together surrounded by their friends and family, in the manner they choose. They’re not making outrageous demands. They’ve made a very reasonable request for people to not bring their children. It is now YOUR job to figure out a way to respect that request.
By all means, talk to Alice. Maybe there’s an age range on the “No kids” thing, like “No kids between 3 and 14” or something like that. And if she says no, that she can’t make an exception for you because then she’d have to make an exception for everyone… you have to deal with it. Hopefully you can do so without the sense of resentment and self-entitlement present in what you wrote here.
Parent pile on! Poor guy. OK, yes, he pretty much asked for it but I can well remember that stage of baby-worship when perspective is very hard to come by. It happens, and then a a few years later you’re saying “a weekend away from the kid? SWEET!” I think at this point a weekend and and a plane ride away is a lot for this family. Either come up with some sort of compromise, or don’t officiate. It will be OK. Different stages of life sometimes don’t mesh. Group hug!
jen(n) says:
December 29, 2010 at 1:47 PM
Dear Parent,
Did you ever happen to steal cans of tomatoes from your local grocer?
Just wondering.
hahahahahaha…so much win.
@KAB- no! me too! I thought for sure that was what he was going for with the whole Bob and Carol and Alice thing.
I was in a kinda-sorta similar situation to Parent recently. My cousin is getting married on New Years Eve, in another state. No kids invited. Finding a babysitter on NYE is a pretty huge challenge, for even a few hours, but for the weekend? Yikes. Add to that the fact that my whole family will obviously be at the wedding, and my MIL already had plans to travel out of town. So…we had to decline. And I have to say that I totally don’t get Parent’s attitude, because all I could think was, “Shit. He’s never gonna forgive me for missing this.” I ended up having a pregnancy complication that precluded travel anyway, and he understood 100%, but seriously? It NEVER occurred to me to be mad at HIM for not inviting my 2yo. Toddlers are kind of annoying and really not very conducive to an adult-centered party atmosphere.
As a longtime nursing mother, I just wanted to mention a point that Parent didn’t bring up, but is a very real consideration for parents of babies Frank’s age — it may be physically impossible for them to leave Frank for the weekend if he & Carol are still breastfeeding. This does not preclude a babysitter at the event, or Carol staying home with Frank, but it does prevent them from leaving Frank altogether, even with doting caregivers in a familiar environment. It’s difficult & risky to build up enough pumped breastmilk for exclusive feeding for 24 hours, much less 48+. It’s equally stressful, and can impact Carol’s health, to pump while traveling. Carol’s breastmilk supply would take a significant hit by being away from Frank that long, and if Frank isn’t used to taking a bottle, his comfort, and perhaps his health, could suffer as well. I would not leave my own still-nursing baby for that length of time.
In addition, it’s almost certain that Dana will be in the same position regarding nursing her 3-month-old, who almost definitely won’t be able to be separated from Dana for more than 3 hours, if they are breastfeeding.
Count me as a parent who just wouldn’t get this bent out of shape about the issue. I’d be sad to miss a special wedding, but making sure my kid is happy, safe and well-cared for is more important. If I couldn’t be certain of that AND attend the wedding as well, then I’d pick my kid every time, and drop a heartfelt note and a generous gift in the mail. No hard feelings on either side.
Good contrast between the two letters…
They both make me appreciate what I have. The first makes you appreciate all the small things in life and remember to not take anything for granted. The second makes me happy none of my friends (whether they have kids or not) are so selfish and self-absorbed.
Will, I’m so sorry for your loss. I can’t offer anything that others haven’t said, but know we are all rooting for you.
Parent, do what HollyMartins said and read the first letter. Then sit down, holding your baby. And think about how lucky you are to be able to be so offended about something like this. YOU have a wife. YOU have a baby. YOU have friends who want you to preside over their wedding. The ONLY problem is that for whatever reason they don’t want kids at their wedding. Its one event. It’s one weekend. It has nothing to do with you and your baby personally. Either suck it up and don’t go or suck it up and go. That’s life. It’s why having kids isn’t easy. You have to suck it up and do things you don’t always want to do.
@Will, I was shaking with useless anger when I read your question. I am so sorry that happened to you and so sorry for your loss. I hope your get the dog back as soon as possible. I don’t have any advice, really, but I’m keeping good thoughts for you and trying not to have bad ones toward your fiance’s family.
Will, it may be useful to use Dad’s dependence on your continued good will for a home to get him to see your side of things with regard to Lab. I’d get him to get on your side, get Lab back, and then sell and/or terminate the lease and hightail it out of there. A change of scene probably isn’t a bad idea.
Parent, I’m in the process of planning my wedding, and while the young children of my acquaintance are very much invited, I’m hoping that the adult children decide to decline invitations.
Parent–
May I gently note, if the first letter hasn’t brought it home to you, that this is really not that big a deal? You have an important thing in your life; Alice and Bob have an important thing in their lives. The fact that the important things don’t neatly align isn’t a statement about your baby or their friendship or anybody’s morals. You can go or not go, ask about options or not, attend with your wife or without–none of which has to be a judgment on anybody. What do you gain by choosing to consider it one? Wouldn’t you rather just make a scheduling decision and then go back to enjoying both your baby and your friends?
Will: I am so, SO sorry for your loss. I can’t offer much other than echoing the helpful advice to get a lawyer – but if that doesn’t work and you need a dognapper, I’d be ready and willing. (Seriously. Maybe email me. I desperately want to help.)
(P.S., Parent: Google “statistics on babies who died or suffered lifelong psychological trauma during stay with a babysitter while parents were away at a wedding” and take note of how many hits you do not get. I assume my smug superiority is perfectly welcome here because I don’t have kids, just common sense.)
(P.P.S. I know you said you don’t even have a suitable babysitter you could leave him with anyway, which makes your defensiveness about it all the funnier.)
I’d like to agree with dawn…It’s nice of people to suggest compromises, but why should a wedding couple have to compromise to have you attend their wedding? It’s rude to call up the bride and ask to bring your child, too (nursing babes notwithstanding). Decline politely (without making a huge show about it), and you can discreetly mention why you’re declining, and if the bride wants to offer something to help, fine. If not…leave it! Go if you want to, given the limits of the invitation, or don’t.
I don’t understand why so many people seem to think it’s their right to attend a wedding on their own terms and that they should be able to blackmail the wedding couple into granting their wishes on threat of not attending. So frustrating, even with my wedding five years in the past! When it happened to me, I was a hardass and wanted to let the chips fall for those folks who demanded such craziness. My husband and parents, however, were far too soft for my liking.
I love when people write in here for advice which needs to be specifically, “You’re awesome and completely right! That other guy’s a total douchebag!” Ridick.
I love when people write in here for advice which needs to be specifically, “You’re awesome and completely right! That other guy’s a total douchebag!”
I love giving that kind of advice! Alas, this letter proved to be…not the best read of a room I’ve ever seen.
I disagree about the breastfeeding, actually. You can store it frozen for quite a while, so Carol could start pumping extra a month or so ahead of time and build up plenty for a one-year-old, who won’t be exclusively breastfeeding at that point. I don’t think Parent and Carol are looking for solutions, though.
@AnotherAlice makes a great point–Frank won’t be the same at a year as he is now, and neither will Parent and Carol. I wonder if there’s something else going on here–Parent really jumped to conclusions (and gratuitous ire) at poor Alice. I wonder if she’s transgressed in the past…no baby gift for Frank?
But yeah, Sars, he sure didn’t read the room well.
Wow. Just, wow.
I may not have kids, but my brother has three. When #1 was a baby he and his wife took him to my cousin’s wedding near Pittsburgh. After that, the only wedding their kids attended was my sister-in-law’s sister and that’s because they were in it (and they looked damn cute in their little tuxes let me tell you.) When another cousin got married in Brooklyn not long after #3 was born this summer, they gladly left the older two with my dad and the baby with sister-in-law’s mother so they could have a nice weekend away from the kids. A good time was had by all. But, I suppose that makes them bad parents to Parent.
It occurs to me that there’s a sixth option: Parent can go to the ceremony and Carol can go to the reception. I have friends that tag team parenting all the time, allowing the other to enjoy time away with the other grown-ups.
At the beginning of Parent’s letter, I started thinking of reasonable, sane solutions… right up until the you-don’t-understand-my-baby-so-shove-it part. I think this one will go down in the Vine’s Hall of Fame.
Maybe Alice simply doesn’t understand that your wife gave birth to Jesus Reincarnate. Could you arrange a series of sitdown chats to explain this, during their extremely stressful wedding planning period? As you implied in your letter, it sure is a damn shame that excluding children isn’t illegal. Just think of the lawsuit you could bring against them on their wedding day! They’ll never see that one coming!
But seriously, I feel like Alice and Bob deserve a few extra wedding gifts just for putting up with you as a “friend”.
@Parent: If Bob and Alice ask you to officiate at the wedding, and if they go ahead with the plan to have no kids at the wedding (I don’t have a clear sense from your letter of how far in the future this wedding is, but these plans can change — I considered a “no second cousins” cutoff for my own wedding, then changed my mind when I knew more about how much space we would actually have), and if you are still, at that time, unwilling to leave Frank with a sitter for the weekend, and if the only (or even just the primary) thing preventing you from going is that you don’t have a place to leave Frank… then by all means, ask if she might consider making an exception. But they may change their minds about having you officiate (or not have been that serious about the idea in the first place), or about whether they want to invite kids; you may discover a sitter you trust entirely, or find that Frank seems more comfortable with being left alone, or realize that even if you could take Frank they’ve scheduled their wedding on the one weekend that’s impossible for you because of work. At this point, unless I’m missing something, you haven’t even been invited to the wedding. You are way over-thinking this problem.
(I also think you are overestimating how surprised and upset Alice and/or Bob would be if, after they said “No kids,” you said “Gosh, I’d love to, but I can’t leave Frank for the weekend.” Most adults do, in fact, have an understanding that actions have consequences, and that includes the possibility that “Action: Do not invite kids to wedding” will lead to “Consequence: Some friends with kids may miss wedding because they couldn’t find a sitter.”)
“I’d like to agree with dawn…It’s nice of people to suggest compromises, but why should a wedding couple have to compromise to have you attend their wedding?”
I agree. (But hey, I’m single and childless so who cares what I think, right? /eyeroll) To me, this is akin to sending in a pitch letter after reading the answer to the TWoP FAQ “I want to be a recapper, how do I do that?” The answer was “We are not hiring, so you can’t, so don’t ask us if you can.” People need to read the directions and follow them – no kids means no kids, so were I a parent, it would not occur to me to ask the couple (COUPLE, add me to the list of people who are irked that Parent assumes the evil bridezilla is the one banning kids) if I could bring my kid(s), because I … already got the answer to that question. I don’t know parents who would handle it any other way, and for that I am glad. If I were getting married and one of my friends got all preachy about how I was wrong to not include kids, I’d tell them not to bother coming, because who needs all that attitude? It’s supposed to be a celebration and if you’re going to be pouting in the corner (or worse, loudly and rudely pontificating) because things (which, it bears repeating, are not about you), were not done to your specifications, stay home. And I’d stop inviting you places because I’d remember your self-righteous, snobby attitude, and life is too short.
Oh PSA. I am so sorry. I would come so unhinged if I’d lost my love and then our dog too. I am not a pray-er, but I really do pray that you get Lab back. Be well.
Will, let us know what the lawyer says, what happens, etc. I’m really pulling for you to get Lab back. If it comes down to dog-napping, I like the solution that another commenter suggested: see if you can get custody of Lab “for the weekend”, and then drop Lab off with a trusted friend in a secret location. Move out of your place, let some time pass, then get Lab from your friend.
Good luck, do let us know what happens.
What’s interesting to me about Parent’s letter is that he hasn’t even been asked yet. It’s all built on assumptions so far. I mean… the couple might call up and say, we’d love to have you and we understand you have a small child, so here’s what we propose. It’s true that many people who plan a non-child-appropriate wedding would gladly make special accommodations for the officiant. Why not wait to get in a huff until there are non-hypothetical reasons to do so? Or better yet, calm down and realize that the world will continue to turn no matter how this situation unfolds. Upset is optional. Honestly, though, if I were a member of that couple and I got wind of your ungracious attitude, I’d reconsider having you officiate at all– if only to spare you the emotional turmoil you put yourself through.
Will: like everyone else, I’m anguished on your behalf. I second your advice to make a will– my partner and I did a year into our relationship (specifying things like who should get custody of the dog, etc.). Also, it’s wise to make living will arrangements– what you want done in case of a devastating medical emergency, etc. It will feel good to have it taken care of.
FWIW, I would boot Dad out. I would possibly stoop to making Dad’s staying contingent on Lab’s return– but it sounds like Mom and Horrible Sister wouldn’t care– plus you don’t want Dad there anyway. I hope they calm down soon.
@crabbyappleseed: Right? I mean, all that set up and then … “Being A Good Parent Sometimes Means Being A Bad Friend.” I mean, honestly.
Will: As everyone else here has said, I am so very sorry for your loss. My heart goes out to you, and I think Sarah and others here have given some wonderful advice. The only thing I’d like to add of my own two cents is I don’t think I would second any dog napping suggestions. Not because you don’t have the visceral right to it! By all means, I think Lab is yours and should come back to you and I so hope that he does. Only because, as evil and piss poor a job as they are doing at dealing with it, Mom and Sis are also dealing with their grief and anger over losing J right now. I could see any attempt to steal Lab back as, not firing the first shot of course, but partaking in a long and horrible war that won’t end well for anyone.
My advice, such that it is never having been in any situation even remotely close, is to do as others have said. Gather all of your Lab care receipts from the past several years, talk to the vet, and talk to a lawyer. Then, just maaaybe, there’s a chance for a dialogue with mom where you could present this to her?
Again, I’m so sorry for your loss. I hope you are able to come back here and give us an update.
Parent, I want to thank you for writing to Sars. Her response and the responses in the comments are some really really good advice, and it has been enjoyable reading. What a smart and thoughtful (and funny) group.
My advice to you is to read and re-read the comments until something starts to sink in. It is not too late to stop being an entitled twat, and it is not too late for you to make sure Frank does not become one.
Will, my thoughts are with you. I’m so sorry for your loss and your difficult situation.
@Will-
Just out of curiosity (and maybe this got suggested already in the 327 preceeding comments) have you asked if you can show J’s mom how to work with Lab?
I have a couple of thoughts here. If you show Mom how to work with Lab, there’s a possibility that Lab’s life could impove significantly, which is presumably the minimum acceptable response. Not ideal, but better than the current situation for Lab, at least. The other possibility is that Mom will see how much you and Lab are bonded, and come to the realization that taking Lab was not the best choice.
Yes, lawyer, yes, therapy. I hope you’ll let us know what happens.
@Louisa:
“Maybe Alice simply doesn’t understand that your wife gave birth to Jesus Reincarnate.”
They didn’t. If they had there would be babysitters who travel and even bring their own oils. :)
So the “resort” is beautiful Mount Airy Lodge in Bethlehem, PA? Hee.
Sarah, don’t knock Mount Airy lodge. My parents had their honeymoon there back in 1972 :)
All they had to bring was their love of everything!
@Parent: I get where you’re coming from, I really do. My sister in law pulled the same thing with us, having a “no-children” wedding, despite the fact that meant her nephew would be at home AND that my husband (her brother) and I would have to leave the reception early (and neither of us were asked to participate in any way in her wedding, so I’m not sure of her rationale, because between the two of us, we could very easily wrangle a toddler and keep him quiet – pacifiers were lifesavers back then.) I get why she did that, because she wasn’t thinking about other people but only about herself. It wasn’t an insult to my kid; it was merely a reflection of her own selfishness because she didn’t want anything to spoil her “perfect day.” In the end, since the wedding was local, we hired a sitter, went to the wedding, ate the overcooked chicken at the banquet hall, and went home right after cake to relieve our sitter. Since you don’t have that option, once Alice actually asks you to officiate, you can politely decline, telling her that you know she’s having a child-free wedding, but you don’t have a sitter to care for Frank that long. Then it’s on her to decide whether or not to bend the policy for you. In a perfect world, she would, but if she doesn’t, send them a nice gift and your regrets. But definitely wait to see if she asks; you may be getting ahead of yourself here.
Agreed on the bad room-read. I got the feeling that Parent just googled “advice” and started posting.
When my older sister got married, there was all sorts of drama that basically amounted to other people making her wedding about them. It was very messy, and people tended to blame her and call her selfish while they were making demands – and this was over a decade before the show Bridezilla came along and convinced some that all brides are demanding harpies (which seems to be the angle Parent is taking).
My partner’s little sister is planning her wedding right now, and recently asked my partner to be her maid of honor. This annoyed me at first because a maid of honor is traditionally a maid, right? As in a maiden, as in young and unmarried. Which my partner is not – she’s partnered to me. This brought up bad feelings from unrelated issues, specifically that my partner’s family tends not to recognize our union.
I immediately got over it though, for a few reasons. For one thing, my partner’s sister isn’t that bright when it comes to these things. She asked a young single friend of hers to be the matron of honor, and it became clear to me that she really has no idea that these words have actual meanings other than just “the females who are part of your wedding party”. Additionally, if I were a man and we were married, her family might still treat me like I’m not part of their family. They are kind of like that (and by the way, her groom? Has my sympathy).
More importantly, it’s not my wedding. It was remembering my sister’s wedding and thinking how this wedding isn’t about me – and I don’t want to become one of those people who tries to make it all about me – that made me decide to keep my mouth shut and just get over it.
So I can see how the heightened emotional level of a wedding can cause someone to take something personally, but it seems like Parent is only interested in hearing “yes, you have every right to get really undone over this wedding which was obviously designed to inconvenience you.” Too bad he’s uninterested in actually receiving advice, because a lot of good suggestions are out there now, as well as a pretty good discussion of keeping appropriate wedding perspective.
It wasn’t an insult to my kid; it was merely a reflection of her own selfishness because she didn’t want anything to spoil her “perfect day.”
We’ve all seen Bridezilla behavior that correlates perfect-day fixation and selfishness, but I just really don’t see how wanting your wedding a certain way is “selfish.” It’s your wedding — how else are you supposed to want it, given that it’s not possible to make every single other person happy, which should not necessarily be the focus anyway? I’m not comfortable at all with the idea that knowing what you want and not backing down from it is by definition selfish, and I notice that it’s only the bride, again, who’s implicated as a blithely self-absorbed bitch for, God forbid, having an opinion on how the most significant grown-up party she will probably ever plan is going to go. Can’t have been the groom’s idea, oh no, and if it were, he’d just be expressing a a preference; it’s the bride who’s a heartless cow.
You have to remember also that, just as not every bride has excluded children in order to make your life more difficult or because she’s an uptight harpy, not every parent is as attentive to his/her child at weddings as you report you are. “I’ll just let the room babysit little Dylan while I drink martinis” is not a super-rare approach; a bride who has seen four-year-olds tear-assing around the venue with garters on their heads may, believe it or not, decide that that’s not shit she wants to deal with on her wedding day.
@Another Parent- it’s not automatically selfish to want a child free wedding! To many people’s thinking (including my own), it’s actually more considerate for the other party guests to mandate no children, because at a grownup function, kids, especially little kids, are a pain. Their safety has to be ensured, their quiet has to be ensured, their comfort as far as food, diapers, clothing, etc. has to be ensured, their sleep has to be ensured. Any or all of those things need vigilance and any of those needs not being appropriately met could potentially really disrupt the event for EVERYONE.
Look, kids don’t belong some places and some functions. And for a party, it is up to the host or hostess to decide whether kids are welcome. You might have had other issues going on there, but just because your sis-in-law didn’t want children at her wedding doesn’t make her- or Alice or Bob- automatically selfish.
Tying into the theme of kids don’t belong at some functions, it’s also not selfish for people to expect parents to get a babysitter, for goodness’ sakes! And if you can’t or won’t get a sitter for whatever reason, you end up having to leave early or go without your spouse or not go. That really is part of being a parent.
Jen(n)… I don’t get it and I wish I did! Google was no help… can someone explain the canned tomato line?
Also, to the (second to last?) poster… I am sure your two year old would have LOVED (sarcasm) being wrangled all night. If he needs to be wrangled with a pacifier he has too much energy to be at an adult-only wedding.
Also for anyone who sees this as a “selfish” decision against parents, what about all the guests who would LOVE an adult-only wedding? Those who relish the chance to leave their kids with a sitter for the night and have some drinks and dancing? Perhaps not every parent considers adult-only weddings selfish. Perhaps some consider them blessings!
I’m sure you’ll get this a few times, petalfrog, but the tomato-stealing freedom fighter is an old friend on this column.
https://tomatonation.com/vine/the-vine-september-19-2001/
Double word up to what you just said, Sars. Like you, I’m not comfortable with the idea that someone who consults personal preferences throwing a party for their own damn selves is being selfish. But even beyond that, I object to the suggestion that either bride (and groom for that matter) is not thinking about other people when excluding children from their weddings. I’ll bet thinking about other people is EXACTLY what they are doing when they make a choice like that. They are considering what is likely to contribute to the happiness and enjoyment of the largest number of guests.
What Other Parent and Original Parent are really saying is “Bride X isn’t considering MY needs when planning her wedding!” And that is the definition of selfish.
AP: your sister-in-law wasn’t being selfish. She was thinking of the other guests, and she was thinking of your kid. Black-tie affairs bore kids to tears. Heck, they bore lots of adults to tears! I reiterate: little kids = short attention span = two hours with grownups in fancy clothes is torture.
When we were planning our wedding, and at every wedding we’ve attended since, I have been amazed at the number of GUEST-zillas. Bringing uninvited extras is selfish. So is dragging your kids to a grownups-only shindig so they can be up past bedtime with no toys and no other kids to hang out with.
No, I’m not a parent, but I’m a proud former kid.
There’s nothing selfish about the people who are throwing the party deciding who should be at the party. That’s how it works. It would work the same way in reverse – if a couple is getting married and the invite says “Kids welcome” and one of the other invitees hates kids, s/he can come or not, but s/he doesn’t get to say “I hate kids, so no kids are allowed to be there.” If a couple’s dog is going to be prominently featured in the wedding and reception and a guest is allergic, well, s/he can get an allergy shot or stay home. If a couple is having a Catholic mass and you’re an atheist, either tune out the ceremony or don’t go, but you don’t get to ask them to have a secular ceremony for your sake.
And again, I’m not a parent, but I think if I were and I had gotten a sitter and put on grownup clothes and was looking forward to drinking and swearing and not having to cut anybody’s meat, the last thing I’d want to see would be somebody’s kids. I feel the same way about the babies in bars debate – some places are for grown folks.
And who can forget the update to Jack?
http://tinyurl.com/2ejadps
I’m with JS on the previous page. My husband and I are about to be new parents and Parent’s letter sparked a nice conversation with my husband on this topic about what not to do and how we would react if in a similar situation. Although my husband’s first comment was “who do we know that’s going to get married next year?”
For Will – I am so, so sorry for your loss. My thoughts are with you.
And thanks for the link explaining the tomato comment.
As a parent of a toddler, I would never be upset with someone for not inviting my child to an adult event. I would be bummed if I couldn’t find childcare and therefore had to decline the invitation (which has happened before), but that’s what happens sometimes when you have kids. Personally, I would never trust my child to a hotel-employed babysitter, only because I would never leave my child with someone I had known for less than a day (especially when he is too young to be able to tell me if anything went wrong). You do have to make sacrifices as a parent, and when it comes to a wedding, that may mean paying for a babysitter for the weekend, attending the wedding alone, alternating with your spouse so you can both participate in the festivities to some extent, or declining the invitation altogether. And good luck to you and your wife when your precious little one grows into a bratty, self-entitled teenager.
For Will: I am SO ANGRY on your behalf. And I am so, so sorry for your loss. I think we could round up a good amount of TN people to stage a dognapping, but that may not turn out so well for you in the end. I hope that all that is needed is the threat of a lawyer (and maybe a threatening letter from said lawyer) to get your beloved Lab back. Lawyers are expensive, so I hope you don’t end up needing too much legal help. And kick out Dad as soon as humanly possible. I am sure your fiance would never expect or want you to support his dad now that he is gone and would be horrified by how his family is treating you now. I hope everything resolves itself quickly and you and Lab can start to heal together.
I think everyone has said everything to Parent that needed to be said. I double he’s hearing anyhow.
@Will – I am an attorney in Massachusetts and a rampant dog lover. I don’t know what state you’re in, but if you want to drop me an email, I can see if I know anyone practicing there in a useful area. I have some experience in regular probates so I know probate litigators in MA definitely. Sars, if Will is interested, can you share my email?
Will, I am so sorry for your loss. I wish you the best.
jen(n): you made me scare the cats I laughed so loud! Well played.
Parent: how’s about building a bridge and getting over it? Co-signing times a million what others have said about the fact that you don’t even know for sure if you’re going to be asked, blah, blah, blah, mega-entitlementcakes. That said, welcome to the TN Hall of Infamy.
@Marie: No problem.
Will: In terms of advice, I got nothing. I’m so sorry for everything you’re going through, and I hope you get your dog back ASAP.
I’m not sure how it’s “selfish” not to invite kids to a wedding just because it means parents won’t be able to stay for the entire reception. It’s more selfish for them to want a wedding with only adults than it is for parents to want to stay for the entire thing?
I mean, honestly, it’s one thing to say it’s selfish if not inviting kids means your close family members can’t attend at all for some reason, but it’s sort of shocking to me that now it’s selfish not to invite children to your wedding just because you’re not ensuring their parents can stay as late as they want. (Come to think of it — wait a second, if you brought the kid, you’d be able to stay out LATER than you stayed when you had to get home to relieve the sitter? You would have kept the toddler at the wedding later than you were prepared to keep your sitter engaged?)
Moreover, I’m dismayed by the “overcooked chicken” reference. They didn’t invite your kid, so now you insult the food at the reception? Seriously, don’t go down this road. As I just heard Carrie Fisher say in her HBO special, resentment is like drinking poison and waiting for the other person to die.
I was hoping that a lawyer would be reading – yay Marie!