The Vine: December 29, 2010
Two weeks ago, my fiancé, J, went to sleep and didn’t wake up the next day. He was 31 years old, generally healthy, and we still don’t know exactly what happened. We are waiting for some more test results as the autopsy was inconclusive. I could write a book on how I’m feeling — distraught, sad, lonely, but that’s not the issue at hand, the issue is our dog.
We had been together for seven and half years. We got a dog four years ago, a Labrador I’ll call Lab. He lived at J’s house but I was his doggie “Mom” as J called me. I carried him in my lap when we picked him up at the breeder, took him to the vet for his shots, trained him to sit and stay, helped J leash train him, etc. We loved that dog like a son. Cesar Milan would not be happy with the way we treated him, he was the center of our lives. Every single person who knew J knew about Lab and how much he loved him. He carried pictures in his wallet. He would call home to “talk” to him when we were on vacation. Lab was everything to J.
We only lived together, officially, in the last year. This was due to his father. J was close to his dad and so when he lost his job four years ago, J took care of him. I, in my stubborn stupidity, refused to live with them because I thought it was wrong that his dad leeched off him like that (I still think that, but that’s another letter). Despite refusing to officially live together, however, I spent three or four nights a week at J’s house for the last five years. I pretty much lived there.
Last year after we got engaged, we moved in together — J, his dad, Lab and me. Financially, it was much better for us and J was sure his Dad was finally pulling himself together and would only be there temporarily (he’s still there). So we lived in relative happiness until this happened.
Two days after J died, I came home from visiting some friends and J’s dad told me that J’s mom and sister were taking Lab, that J wanted the dog to “stay in the family” — that this is what J wanted to happen, if anything ever happened to him. J’s sister was there saying things like, “J never really loved you anyway” and “he wouldn’t trust you with that dog” (she likes to hurt people when she’s in pain, she gets it from her dad). The combination of the two of them crumbled me. I was in shock and was having difficulty thinking in coherent sentences. I started bawling and saying things like “no,” “please don’t take him,” “I need him with me” and such. Essentially, I panicked. J’s family just looked at me like I was nuts. My friends hustled me out of there, worried because I was crying so hard. I stayed at my grandparents’ that night and when I came home, Lab was gone, moved to J’s mother’s house.
If I had been thinking straight, I wouldn’t have let them take him, I’d have gotten the cops involved if necessary, but I was still so overcome with grief I didn’t know what to do. Looking back I’m kicking myself for letting it happen.
I’m angry and heartbroken twice over. I’ve been able to visit Lab for short periods and I can see he’s miserable — J’s Mom has drugged him to keep him calm and started keeping him in his kennel most of the day. He’s so confused. I’m losing my mind. Legally, I don’t have any options, J and I weren’t married and Lab’s papers are in J’s name only. I have no way of refuting what they are saying J said while alive (there’s no will). I know he wouldn’t have wanted Lab ripped away from me like this.
To make matters worse, J’s dad still lives at my house (his parents are divorced). I have to see him every day. I’ve thought about kicking him out (the lease is in my name), making him suffer for what he’s done, but I feel like I’m dishonoring J’s memory if I do. But I also feel like I’m letting J and Lab down if I don’t fight harder to get him back. I’ve tried talking calmly to J’s mom but she just gets defensive, telling me it’s for my own good and she’s only doing what J would have wanted.
The anger is consuming me. I can’t work, sleep or concentrate on anything — just worrying about Lab and how I could get him back. I don’t know what to do at this point. I’m talking to a therapist, but it slow going and I’m just so angry — I want my damn dog. Aside from dog-napping I don’t know what to do. How do I move past this?
PSA to the Nation: make a will, whether you think you need one or not
Dear Will,
I’m so sorry for your loss.
Your first job is to forgive yourself, for everything. Forgive yourself for every bitter, irrational, uncharitable emotion you’ve felt since J’s death — including anger at J for abandoning you and putting you in these situations, which is completely normal and doesn’t mean you didn’t, and don’t, love him. Forgive yourself also for every situation you didn’t handle calmly and thoughtfully, before J’s death as well as after it, because you’re human. “I should have this with J’s dad, I should have that when they tried to take Lab” — well, maybe, but your emotions don’t follow a subroutine (and not for nothing, but neither do J’s family’s). You’re doing the best you can in a situation nobody saw coming.
The second thing is to understand that, however you feel about Lab qua Lab, none of this is about the dog. This is the almost inevitable competition to establish whom the deceased loved one honored and trusted more. This is the substitution of the things (or pets) the loved one loved for the loved one himself. This is, in the absence of the loved one, what comfort and purpose might seem to remain, horrible and inadequate and necessary.
It sucks, but it almost has to happen, in other words, and you have to acknowledge it for what it is and try to remember that it isn’t a comment on your fitness as a person or a fiancée, and it doesn’t go on forever.
In the meantime? Get a lawyer. I don’t recommend this for scorch-the-earth reasons, but rather because a probate attorney has seen hundreds of situations like this (and far worse), and is in a coolly objective position to advise you on your rights in the situation — and to communicate them to J’s family — that you are not. Yes, it could seem hostile to J’s family, but 1) you’ve tried other means, in vain, and 2) you need to try not to worry about that and focus on protecting yourself, and reducing your exposure to situations that will double down on your grief. Hire an attorney, one who’s recommended if you can (perhaps the readers can help there, if you’re comfortable sharing your location), and explain the situation to her — because part of what’s hindering your ability to move on is that you don’t know where to move on to, or whether you should, or what. I mean, I would advise punting J’s dad from the house pronto unless he can furnish a written agreement stating that he gets to stay, but I don’t know if you can, or if you can, how.
And keep going to therapy, and keep reminding yourself that this is hard and unfair and nobody can reasonably expect you to know exactly how to behave every minute.
Greetings:
Two of my good friends (call them Alice and Bob) are getting married to each other, and this is absolutely a good thing. They are getting married at a little mountain resort a few hours from where we live. In conversation with Alice recently, my wife (call her Carol) discovered two things: First, that they were thinking of asking me to officiate at the wedding, and second, that they wanted no children to attend.
The former is great by me; I officiated at the wedding of two of our mutual friends (call them Dana and Ed, with the former a very likely bridesmaid here) a few years ago, so I know the drill, and it would be honor to officiate at Alice and Bob’s wedding. The latter, however, is a big problem.
Carol and I have a baby (call him Frank) who will be a year old and change at the time of the wedding. We have no family in the area, and while we have a couple of babysitting options that would be acceptable for a few hours, there is no one (local or otherwise) with whom we’d be willing to leave Frank for a weekend. Frank is a mostly happy and outgoing little guy, but he’s also quite dependent on Carol and me. Perhaps that will change in a few months, but we certainly can’t count on it. So, leaving him behind while we go to the wedding is entirely off the table. (I can already hear a chorus of people in the comments ready to chime in with how their baby could be left with a babysitter for the weekend, because they are better parents than we are; I am quite sure they are absolutely correct, and I would ask that they enjoy their smug superiority in silence, because I could not care less.)
That leaves us with five options that I see: 1) I go to the resort alone. 2) Carol and Frank come with me, but they stay behind at the hotel while I go to the wedding and reception. 3) We bring a suitable babysitter to the resort, and leave Frank with him/her while Carol and I attend the wedding. 4) We convince Alice to change her “No Damn Kids!” policy so that Frank can attend. 5) I decline to officiate, and Carol and I both decline to attend.
Option 1 sucks, because I’ll resent having to leave Carol and Frank behind, and Carol will be none too thrilled to be left behind. Option 2 is even worse, since it forces Carol to drag Frank out to the resort so that they can both sit around the hotel for half a day or more. Option 3 is expensive and impractical, since I don’t know that any likely babysitter is going to want to kill their weekend to not attend a wedding any more than Carol does.
That leaves options 4 and 5. We would love to persuade Alice to reverse her policy, but it’s not at all clear how to do so. I’m not certain what made her decide to exclude children, but I’m sure she has (at least in part) internalized the pervasive clamor of advice telling her to be selfish and hold firm on it. Given that there doesn’t seem to be any sort of law prohibiting the exclusion of children from social events, Alice certainly has the right to do so. However, what the “It’s her Special Day and she should get whatever she wants!!1!” crowd fails to acknowledge is that sometimes the exercise of a right has consequences. Unless we can persuade her to change her policy (or find a sixth option), one of those consequences will be our absence from the wedding. Given that Alice will likely be quite upset about this situation, and given that Dana and Ed are closer to Alice and Bob than we are, this will put a very severe, and possibly terminal, strain on our friendships with all four of them.
One possible avenue toward the fourth option comes through Dana. She is pregnant, and will have a three-month-old infant at the time of the wedding. Leaving a near-toddler behind for the weekend is one thing, but leaving a newborn behind is another. Dana apparently told Alice that they’d “work something out” regarding the baby. My temptation is to ask Dana, privately, how she plans to handle the matter, and express that it is a very big problem for us. This might point us toward a previously unconsidered course of action, and it would provide a sort of back channel to Alice that might make negotiations go a bit more smoothly.
Carol is quite offended and upset about the whole situation; she just wants to decline the invitation and let the chips fall where they may. I would prefer a more diplomatic approach, if one can be found. So, do you see any way we can address this situation other than declining the invitation outright?
Being A Good Parent Sometimes Means Being A Bad Friend
Dear Parent,
I think it also sometimes means seeing selfish, clueless snubs where none exist, viz. the following comments in your letter:
I’m sure she has (at least in part) internalized the pervasive clamor of advice telling her to be selfish and hold firm on it.
[W]hat the “It’s her Special Day and she should get whatever she wants!!1!” crowd fails to acknowledge is that sometimes the exercise of a right has consequences.
Your current tone won’t get much accomplished, I can tell you that much. Yes, Alice may have bowed to pressure to “selfishly” exclude children — or she may just not have the budget to include the short set. Or the resort may have placed the reception in a bar, in which the laws of the state do not allow underage children. Or maybe planning a wedding is complicated, and Alice went with a blanket policy on the kiddos that would close off a few avenues of anticipatory planning and make her life a little easier, heaven forfend.
I don’t like the Perfect Special Day nonsense any better than you do, but I don’t see that here, and if anyone needs a high-handed reminder on rights having consequences here, I…think it’s you. Having a little kid can mean you don’t get to do stuff, or that you have to choose between a social occasion and family togetherness, and that can be tough. But…tough. You know? Way of the world; not Alice’s doing.
And you’ve gotten away ahead of the problem in the first place. Can’t you wait for Alice to ask you to officiate, and explain at that time that, while you’d love to, you would have to bring Frank along, for the reasons you’ve just outlined to me — and you don’t think that dovetails with her no-children policy? Can’t you, as a member of the wedding, ask for an exemption? Ask, mind you — not lecture her on the imminent “possibly terminal” strain on the friendships, not refer to “negotiations” as though she has fired an actual missile into Frank’s bedroom. Ask. See if she can make an exception.
If she won’t bend on the no-kids thing, well, do what you need to do, but both you and Carol have gone straight to “offended,” and I really think it’s not necessary. See what Alice actually wants to do, and if Frank can’t go with you and you don’t see a solution to that problem, decline the invitation and let the shit go. Lots and lots of situations don’t work for/with diaper-age children. Taking it personally each time this is the case is a waste of your time with no basis in fact.
Tags: etiquette kids the fam
Will: Were you noted as his beneficiary on anything yet, like his work’s life insurance or have joint banks accounts? If so, I imagine that strengthens your legal case that Lab would be yours as fiance’s intentions were clearly about you getting his property in the event of his death.
Also, as another PSA and partner to someone whose family HATES me with the fire of a thousand suns: I want to third, fourth, fifth to infinty the advice of couples to get wills or Healthcare Powers of Attorneys made – as soon as you think your relationship is solid/long-term enough (and if you are in the unfortunate position of not having your marriage legally recognized because of bigoted laws).
Also, keep in mind that you can put any name on certain files – our vet and kennel all have my partner’s and my last names hyphenated on our animals’ files – even though we aren’t legally wed. And if you split up, you can change that easily without needing court papers, you know?
And ESPECIALLY if there are family tensions (my partner’s mother went through a dramatic “writing him out of her will” scene because he supposedly “picked” me over her) Healthcare Powers of Attorney are a MUST. Sure you might be waiting for a wedding to make it official, but I think ours cost about $50 each on Legal Zoom, a few minutes at a notary’s office (not even needed in some states, like ours, but I wanted them notarized as extra precaution) to make it legal – so even if you’re just engaged, it’s not that expensive to have yourselves covered even before the wedding, if that’s what you need.
As for parent, well, won’t HE feel awful (ha, probably not!) when the poor bride and groom ask him to officiate and tell him they’ve already made an exception for his snowflake, because you know, they aren’t stupid and probably realize that the no kids policy would interfere with having Parent as an officiant, so they’ve likely got a plan in place. Also, if Parent is that obsessed with his kid, I’m sure it hasn’t escaped the couple’s notice…
@TashiAnn–fistbump.
And Another Parent, I can’t really agree that having a “no kids” wedding is selfish, unless it’s also selfish to throw a Mad Men cocktail party for New Year’s Eve and call it “no kids” or to throw a black tie evening party and call it “no kids,” etc. When people are throwing an event, they have the right to decide what kind atmosphere they are shooting for, and frankly, inviting kids dictates a certain type of atmosphere. It’s not “selfish” to say that’s not the type of party you’d like to pay a boatload of money to throw (any more than it’s “selfish” not to serve alcohol at a wedding, or to have a very small number of guests at a wedding). And that’s BEFORE you get into kid-specific issues like safety, liability, alcohol, bad previous experiences with kids at a wedding, etc.
I, myself, have also known couples who have had a “no kids” wedding because the GROOM didn’t want kids running around. I know–crazy world!
Will – Sars is dead-on with the therapy and the legal rights, especially with regards to the Dad living with you. I hope you can find a good lawyer.
Parent – I’ve got two kids, so perhaps my perspective counts twice? We were invited to a milestone birthday for a family member – a huge shindig – several states over recently. We have a toddler and a then 5 month old, and had no one in the area to babysit. As it was a late-night party at a fancy restaurant, it was no-kids. It was a pain for us, sure, but we did something simple: I went for the first part, then my husband for the second. At no point did it occur to me to be mad my kids weren’t invited. I know the family loves them, I know they were doted on the rest of the time, but I also know that a 2 year old at a fancy restaurant with a bunch of adults with drinks gets old fast. So we said “Shucks, that’s a pain,” split child-care duty, and went on with our lives. And I’ll tell you a secret: it was great. As the mom of a young baby, I was delighted to both be able to get out with adults and to have an excuse to leave and go to sleep early, and my husband was over the moon about staying out drinking with my brothers.
That said, we haven’t been able to find a sitter around here to go see the latest Harry Potter, and I’m damn pissed about that. I blame Warner Brothers for not planning the release to coincide with my mother-in-law visiting.
I’m the parent of a toddler – and a damned fine one, at that – and I don’t see the problem here. There are places that are not appropriate for my child, and functions to which my child is not invited. That’s called life. My baby boy may be the centre of my universe, but he’s not the centre of THE universe, and I’m perfectly cool with that.
Please, don’t expect people to adapt to your life choices, and don’t make those who don’t consider your child in their every planning decision out to be bad people.
Some parents have perspective. Sheesh!
Personally, I’m kind of excited about Parent’s attitude. All this hubbub means that they’re really unselfish with their own parties, right? I don’t know them, but now I know that I can come to their next party sans invite. And I can bring along my goat.
What baffles me most about Parent’s letter is the assumption that saying “I would love to officiate, but we can’t do a weekend away from Frank and I don’t feel right leaving Carol alone while I have fun at a resort, so I will have to decline” would sever the friendships with not only Bob and Alice but also Dana and Ed. Why would he think that four formerly close friends would cut the family dead because they couldn’t leave their child for an entire weekend and he didn’t want his wife to feel left out?
Oh, right. Parent thinks that because that’s the kind of friend he seems to be, the kind of friend who expects the whole world to revolve around HIM and HIS needs and who automatically writes others off as selfish if they don’t change everything to make HIS life easier. Guess you reap what you sow.
And let me add my voice to the chorus of people saying “not everything wedding-related is the bride’s fault.” My husband and I did not invite children to our wedding (except for two nursing babies). We didn’t make that choice because I thought it was My Super-Special Perfect Princess Day and it would be ruuuuuuuuuined if anyone paid any attention to cute kids. Hell, it wasn’t even my idea. It was, in fact, my in-laws’ idea (and boy did they push for it). They love kids but in their social circle it is Not Appropriate to invite kids to a late-night party with an open bar. And yes, we did understand that this meant that a family with kids might not be able to come or might have to bail at the last minute if their sitter canceled, and no, we would not have shunned them forever if that happened. Just because we don’t have kids doesn’t mean we’re stupid enough to think they can be left by themselves in a crate. Yeesh.
Parent’s letter had me flashing back to my wedding. I’m pretty sure my sister in law was saying how selfish my husband and I were for not getting married in my hometown which was a mere 750 miles from where we actually lived.
I admit I let the wedding location do a lot of the guest list trimming for me. My mom and dad both come from big families and the distance allowed me to send polite invitations to all the aunts and uncles without having to worry about having a huge wedding.
@PetiteChablis – wait, back up. Babies can’t be left alone in a crate? Shit. I am seriously going to have to rethink several aspects of the nursery I’m putting together before my son is born in a few months.
Serously though, I was also utterly confused as to why declining to officiate/attend would have any bearing (terminal or otherwise) in the friendship with Dana and Ed, to say nothing of Alice and Bob. I had a rabbi officiate my wedding, but I’d really like to think that had I asked a friend who had to decline for any reason other than “sorry, I think you’re a crazy bitchface,” I’d be bummed but gracious. If I were close enough to someone to ask them to officiate, I can’t imagine my response to their decline would be S/HE IS DEAD TO ME!
We didn’t want teeny kids at our wedding, as it was an evening thing at a venue that wouldn’t have been very conducive to the small set. I had planned to contact the folks with babies/toddlers on the invite list and see what I could do to arrange childcare for them…and they all beat me to it. The local folks all either scored their own babysitters or traded shifts with their spouses, and the folks who were traveling all left their kiddos at home. If anyone’s nose was out of joint, I never heard about it.
@Will: Our society does not acknowledge well the grieving that occurs at the loss of a fiance’. Warm thoughts to you. Please make sure your therapist is a grief therapist, not a regular counselor. You are grieving, not depressed, and there is a difference. As far as Lab… I am so sorry. Not only is J gone, but you have the loss of Lab to deal with, as well as the continuing presence of J’s dad, and he certainly is not offering you emotional solace. You are in a horrible position not of your making.
Lab legally is considered personal property, much like a laptop computer or a kitchen table. Very few states recognize animal rights. If you are going the legal route to claiming Lab, channel your energy into what evidence you may provide to claim property rights in Lab. The more homework you do, the less you will have to pay the attorney to do. And know that you will be paying the attorney big bucks for this, probably on an hourly basis.
Will you be able to get affidavits from the breeder, veterinarian, dog trainer, pet food store clerk, kennel, groomer, neighbors, friends, co-workers, discussing their actual knowledge of your relationship to Lab? Can you pull together receipts showing you paid for dog food, vet bills, leash, collar, dog blanket, whatever? Do you have timecards showing time you took off of work to take Lab to vet or dog school? Videos and photos of you and J and Lab frolicking? Does the lease that is in your name mention that pets are allowed, and if yes, is Lab mentioned by name, perhaps? Yes, a probate lawyer has heard/seen/lived through all of this. Some probate lawyers also work with animal rights. That would be a great combination for you.
@Parent: I hope you are spending as much time and energy on planning to pay for Frank’s college education as you are in responding to a prospective invitation to officiate at a wedding.
@PetiteChablis, what if it’s a really NICE crate? Like, if I’ve lined it with a soft towel and some pine shavings?
I’m baffled by Parent. My husband was invited to be a groomsman at a “no kids” wedding we were invited to when my daughter was a toddler. I didn’t have a sitter. I stayed home with our daughter while my husband went to the wedding and stood up for his friend. It was not a big deal; it was a drop in the bucket of social opportunities that have constricted since I became a parent; we are all still friends, and now that couple have a baby too so we actually see them more. What’s the big deal?
Will: I’m sorry for your loss and sorry for the way you have been treated. I hope you get Lab back with you and J’s family out of your life.
Parent: I actually love children at a wedding as I think they add a lot of fun but bloody hell your attitude sucks! It actually IS Alice’s wedding day and she can make whatever choices she wants. You maybe need to take a deep breath and rethink this.
Hi all, I’m Will. Just wanted to give you guys an update and thank the entire Nation for all their kind words. I’ve been a long-time reader and it just gives me all kinds of warm fuzzies knowing how many people are behind me :)
That said, I got his Dad out of the house and eventually moved out myself. I’ve got a new place, thanks to a great friend who’s giving me a good deal. Money became a serious issue and I realized I’d been relying on J’s income far too much. It hasn’t been a pleasant few months, I won’t lie, but I feel like I’m making some progress. I still have my crazy moments and want to tear my hair out ( I totally get why people did that back in ancient times now) but with my friends, therapist and a few meds, I’m making it through.
As for Lab, well I had to make a hard choice. I spoke to a few lawyers and the bulk of the responses were I didn’t have much of case. I didn’t have much for paperwork, just a few vet bills that combined both Lab and my cat (she passed away last February-it’s been a bad year) at their check ups. The main problem was that all the paperwork we did have clearly showed J as the owner. Basically, the result was I could spend a bunch of money (which I didn’t have) in a court battle that I’d probably lose.
I did try, multiple times to convince J’s family to let me take him, but I was blown off each time. I visited him for a while but it was so, so hard. In the end I decided it would be best for Lab and me to take a break. I haven’t seen him in a month and I hate it. They did stop drugging him and they do walk him and feed him- so at least I know he’s taken care of.
I have two new cats at my new place, I’m working two jobs and working towards finishing my Master’s degree. I may not be happy, but I’m busy and trying to be positive. Thanks again for all the wonderful support!
Will,
Thanks for updating. I’m glad that you’re separating yourself from the family situation and in your own place. I’m very sorry that things with Lab didn’t work out, but glad that they seem to be actively caring for him now. I don’t blame you for not being happy. You’ve had a hell of a time, but it sounds like you’re coping remarkably well, given the circumstances, and sometimes coping and staying busy (which: 2 jobs, Master’s degree and 2 new cats? Good lord!) is the recipe to getting out of the dark place, little by little.
It also sounds like you have friends as good as mine, so that will help immensely.
Good luck.
heatherkay beat me to it, but yes, Jack was the tomato-liberating freedom fighter. Basically, when I read Parent’s original letter and then his doucheladen comment, I tried to think of a time when the Vine had seen such a self-absorbed, self-righteous character. And Jack immediately sprang to mind.
Not having kids at a wedding isn’t selfish, just as politely asking for an exception for your baby isn’t selfish. Assuming the bride is a bridezilla and taking her to task for something that hasn’t even happened yet, as well as assuming you have the right to have an event that is not about you under your own terms IS selfish.
Will – my condolences on your loss. You may consider checking with local animal rescues to see if they can give you any advice on getting Lab back. They would probably have some good legal recs as well, since they probably deal with the law side of things often. Good luck to you and the pup.
Make a Will: As someone who works for a mediator-y attorney, I have to back up what the above posters said and add that if it were the attorney I work for, he’d see your situation and various issues (dog, asshat family) and attempt to use his finesse to get you an agreement about everything all at once, perhaps using the living situation as a carrot to get the dog back. He’d do it in the most respectful and non-obvious way possible. If you can find that kind of attorney, who will see the whole situation and try to use some finesse and empathy, I bet your life will get a lot better in this regard. Of course, you’re going through one of the worst things ever, and adding this aggro on top just makes allowing yourself to truly grieve harder. I’m so, so sorry. You’ll make it, hang in there.
I just got married a few months ago and had a firm no kids policy. Not all venues are child appropriate. Mine sure wasn’t. Not all states allow underage kids, as Sars pointed out. Lots of commentors made really good points about the justification for having a child-free wedding.
But you know what? Kids are unpredictable. They scream, babble, make a ruckus at inappropriate times. They’re like your unpredictable drunk uncle in a frilly pinafore. They’re adorable to most, but not to all. Not everyone likes your kids, or kids in general no matter how cute they are. I once sat through a wedding littered with children; you couldn’t hear the vows because so many children were screaming.
And as they are throwing the party, it is 100% their right to say no children are invited. As it is 100% your right to politely decline their invitation.
@Will: Thanks for the update. As you say, part of the problem with your situation is that the law (as I understand it) consistently treats animals as property, and therefore doesn’t consider what’s good for them. It looks for an owner, not a caretaker, and I’m not surprised you were told you’d have an uphill battle.
I’m so sorry this has been so painful. You deserve better, and so did Lab, but this is an example of a weakness in the law (in my opinion), so you may be doing the least painful of many painful things. Be well, and hug your kitties.
Children were not banned from my wedding, in fact, they were IN the wedding. One flower girl and two ring bearers. In addition to them, there were at least 3 other small children in attendance. One of our friends offered to “babysit” if any of the kids seemed to get too fussy our loud during the ceremony or reception but things went smoothly. And even if one of them had caused a fuss or whatnot, I wouldn’t have cared because it’s family/friends. If I wanted to celebrate my special day with these people, shouldn’t their children be special to me as well? Alice may have her reasons (liquor laws, mouts to feed, doesn’t want the hassle) and she has every right to do that. It is her wedding. I would first wait to see IF you were invited and IF there is a no children clause. Then you could let her know that you would definitely like to attend but as no children are allowed, your wife will be home with Frank. Don’t take this as a personal assault – I’m sure Alice didn’t plan on no kids simply to keep Frank at home. Her decision on that (if in fact she says no kids) was for all of their guests, not just you, so don’t take it personally.
PSA – I’m sorry for both the loss of J and for Lab. Hopefully with the help of a lawyer, you can get Lab back in your life. His family is clearly being selfish for whatever reasons (I have a feeling it’s what Sars described about the whole concept of “He loved us more”). Just keep in mind that they are grieving too and maybe having Lab with them makes them feel comforted. However, they need to realize that Lab belongs with you.
And just so you know, I have a will that clearly states if something happens to me my cat goes to my sister and if something happens to her, the cat goes to my other sister. I don’t want anything like this to happen to her.
Happy thoughts for you and Lab.
@Allie, I”m totally with you on the dog-napping, and I’d go so far as to change the locks & hold J’s dad’s stuff hostage until I got the dog back.
PSA, I’m so sorry, and I hope you get your dog back. I’m really heartbroken & angry on your behalf.
Please send Sars an update, because your letter will haunt me.
@Ann, there’s an update several comments above yours.
@Amy: “If I wanted to celebrate my special day with these people, shouldn’t their children be special to me as well?”
Well…no, not necessarily. I mean, abstractly, yes, but not always in the “I want them as wedding guests” sense. I have several close friends who are very, very special to me, who have had babies over the past couple of years. I’m SO happy for them, and the fact that they’ve had babies is wonderful, but I’m not nearly as enchanted (or accustomed to) all the drooling and the crying and the shrieking and the running around knocking things over and the constant attention they require.** And my new-parent friends feel the same way–I know this because they go out on date nights and get babysitters if they can, because for some activities, they would prefer to be without kids for a bit.
So I don’t think that, just because I am supportive of my friends and their new kids, or just because I think the world of their kids, I need to want them at every single event.
**MY kid, however, will be TOTALLY DIFFERENT and awesome and interesting all the time, and never cry or drool or become at all tiresome and will also have the ability to spin straw into gold. RIGHT?
@JC – HA! I am totally coming with you, and bringing my kids, my pit bulls, and anyone else I find along the way.
Uh, yeah, put me in the Pro-Patricia/Anti-Parent camp.
People like Parent annoy the shit out of me, and I say this as a parent. Also? I don’t find kids at weddings (even mine) to be cute and charming. One of the best weddings I ever attended specified “No kids. Well behaved dogs welcome.”
Two of my kids have never been with a babysitter because…well, it’s complicated, but unlike Parent, I don’t think it’s significant to everybody else in the world.
If I were invited to a no-kids wedding, I would probably draw straws with my husband to see who would attend and who would stay home with the kids. If it was a destination wedding, I’d just attend the wedding in shifts, trading kid duty with my spouse, and then spend the rest of the weekend having some fun family time at the resort. If neither of those options seemed feasible, I would just graciously decline.
It’s not exactly Sophie’s choice, here. Jeez.
It is amazing to me that Parent has spun this up into such a big deal.
Parent:
Some events are not meant for kids. Usually, these events are late, noisy, and involve alcohol. THAT is the way of the world. Alice didn’t make it that way. A no-kids policy is both a courtesy to the other guests and to the children themselves.
You seem like a devoted parent, so I’m surprised you want to bring your infant child to a loud and late celebration where it could be tricky to give him your undivided attention.
The best situation here is to invest in childcare services. This way, both you and Carol get to enjoy a night together at the wedding, and your baby can sleep quietly with a babysitter upstairs.
Why is the notion of hiring a babysitter to attend an event clearly intended for adults so revolting to you? Taking it as a personal attack makes you seem, at best, self-absorbed. It’s just illogical. Her decision wasn’t about you, and it’s actually very common for wedding receptions.
I’m not a parent myself (I know that’s selfish and unforgivable, but I’m infertile and it’s a bitch, but that’s a whole other Oprah), but some of my best friends are, and it’s my best friend’s experience that I’m talking about (not that Parent is listening at all at this point).
She wanted children at her wedding, because she has lots of nieces and nephews who were little then and they’re part of her family.
She regretted it. At the wedding, I heard the organ playing, and children screaming, and that’s all. That’s all you can hear on the videotape of the wedding, also.
I was really surprised about the many negative comments to Parent’s letter.
It’s probably a cultural thing; I’m European and I have never even heard about a wedding where the bridal couple excluded children. This would seem not so much inconsiderate as just plain weird IMO.
Of course there are social occasions that you cannot take your children to (like a bachelor party, or communal viewing of the latest horror flick.) But a wedding is an event not totally unrelated to family, community, the propagation of the species, etc. Excluding the shorter members of invited families from it – WTF ?
For my part, if I am hosting an event that I want friends with children to attend, I accomodate that in the planning (which is also possible at weddings)
Doing so says to the invited friends “I accept you and your situation in life” rather than “you can come if you just leave your noisy brat(s) at home”.
I have attended my share of weddings, and at none of them did the presence of children detract from the experience, rather the opposite.
My husband’s sister had a small child at the time we got married, and even though it was not necessarily a “no kids” wedding, I did say in the invitations that childcare would not be provided. Sister-in-law actually watched the ceremony from the foyer of the church where she could keep her son quiet and not disturb anyone near her. (I loved her so much for that.)