The Vine: February 10, 2010
Hey Sars.
So, of course, there’s this Boy. My question is about whether or not it would be nuts to pursue him.
We know each other because a friend of his has been dating a friend of mine for a few years (we’re all around twenty). He’s very much my type, funny, sweet, and generally awesome.
So awesome that at a party a while ago, we had drunken sex. That I initiated, and he was very open to, and we both enjoyed.
So, great, right? The problem is with the next time I saw him. He does stand-up comedy, and he specifically invited me to his next show.
He told a joke about sleeping with me.
Granted, he didn’t mention my name, or say anything that would make the average person connect the joke to a girl in the audience, but I and a few of my close friends recognized that it was about me.
So why am I not furious? There are mitigating circumstances. He has some pretty serious mental-health issues (of which I was already aware). In fact, he ended up being hospitalized just a few days after this incident. Turns out, he was manic at the time. He also sent me an e-mail apologizing at length.
That, and I like him quite a bit. He just got out of the hospital a couple of weeks ago, and I sort of want to contact him. Is this completely insane?
The Wording Of That Question Was Probably Inappropriate
Dear Inappropriate,
This is a bad call. You know it’s a bad call, but you’re rationalizing it to yourself because you don’t want to feel like bad timing, or other people’s shit that has nothing to do with you, controls you or your life. I empathize completely, because I have forged ahead with questionable romantic alliances for much the same reason. However, and alas: no.
It’s not because he has a mental-health issue per se; it’s that he’s not managing it well at the moment, and it’s also that you’ve already started to make excuses on that basis for behavior that you find alienating and hurtful. And you’ve had sex once. You shouldn’t have this many negative variables this early on.
Is it always going to be a bad call? No. Do you have to cut him off or do anything else dramatic? No. But you do have to recognize and accept that sometimes bad timing is exactly that, bad, and cannot be brought to heel by anything except waiting for better timing. You want to keep hanging out with the guy, keep it friendly, see how it develops for him, sure, go for it. But someone has to be responsible for your feelings here, and it isn’t going to be him right now.
It’s not insane that you’re not furious (an incident like this is a known risk when you get involved with writers and comedians, right or wrong); it’s not insane to want to contact him and see how he’s doing. Any involvement beyond that right now is…well, I wouldn’t use the word “insane,” but “ill-advised” would cover it. Set a wide boundary, and observe it scrupulously.
Hey Sars,
I have a bit of a friend/family dilemma and I’m not sure who’s right here. Trying to keep this as concise as possible, I have three friends from high school (we were all really close) and while we all currently live away from each other, we’ve met up for a girls’ weekend every year for the past three years. We’re kind of split as a group between two major metropolitan areas, so we rotate every year as to who goes where and split the travel costs between all of us.
This year it’s in my area, which will still involve an hour drive to get to where we’re all supposed to stay. I have a daughter who is about a year and a half old and my husband doesn’t understand why I need to be gone for an entire weekend to see my friends. He’s fine with me going to see my friends, but thinks I should come home at night so as not to traumatize our child. Currently I am home with her a majority of the time and am always the one who does bedtime and such because my husband works shift work and often isn’t home.
So while he’s fine taking care of our little girl for a weekend (with backup babysitters in place since he will likely have to work that weekend), he doesn’t think I should be gone for two nights. He says she won’t be able to understand why I’m gone and even if I don’t get home at night to put her to bed, that she’ll at least be comforted when she sees me in the morning.
He also thinks that any trips away from home should be family trips now that we have a family. I can kind of understand his point there — I went across the country last year to see my friends when our daughter was under a year old (he wasn’t thrilled about that, either) and we have yet to take an actual trip as a family. And thinking back to my childhood, I don’t remember either of my parents ever going anywhere overnight alone unless it was for work.
The driving back and forth would be a hassle, but my main worry is feeling left out of the “girls’ weekend” because I’m not there with them at night. And I’m a little worried about the backlash I might get from them. So, first question is, am I being unreasonable to continue this tradition with my friends or should I compromise with my husband and come home at night?
The second question stems from something my husband asked. I’m the only one out of my group to have a child, so my husband asked why my friends couldn’t be a little accommodating and come spend part of a day here where we live (again, just an hour away from where everyone is going to be)? Since one of my friends has yet to meet our daughter, he thought she would want to meet her anyway.
Here’s the complicated part. One of my friends, Meg, has been trying to get pregnant for about a year now and has not had any luck. She’s suffered a couple of miscarriages and is understandably pretty devastated by the whole thing. So one of my other friends in the group pretty much told me that there wouldn’t be any trips to my house because Meg isn’t going to want to be around any kids.
I was so taken aback I just kind of agreed, but once I hung up the phone and processed it, I was kind of shocked. I mean, my daughter was born before Meg even started trying to get pregnant and at one time she called herself an “aunt,” and now seeing my daughter will cause her to be too upset? Plus, I’m assuming my friend who has never met my daughter would like to see her. It’s the first time she’s going to be in the area in two years and she’ll only be an hour away, but because of Meg she won’t.
I’m not saying that our girls’ weekend should be spent hanging around my house with my kid, but I’m wondering if maybe my husband is right when he says they’re kind of treating me like crap. I feel like I’d have to pretend I don’t have a child for a weekend. I mean, if Meg doesn’t want to see her, she’s probably not going to want me to talk about her either. And she’s pretty much the biggest part of my life, so that kind of limits what I can talk about. I really try not to be one of those moms who can’t talk about anything but the kids, but this seems a little over the top.
Oh, and did I mention that I haven’t talked to Meg in six months? The whole time she’s been going through all this, I’ve been calling and emailing with no response. She’s talked to our other friends, but I’ve been limited to the occasional group email and I can only assume it has something to do with my daughter. I’ve been pretty hurt by that, but I’ve been trying to be understanding since she’s obviously going through a hard time.
So, the second question is, are my friends being kind of ridiculous with the whole “no kids” thing when it comes to my daughter or am I just being overly sensitive?
Trying to be a good mom, wife, and friend
Dear Good,
First question: no, I don’t think it’s unreasonable, and I think you already have compromised with your husband. The two of you need to talk about what’s really bothering him here, whatever it is: he’s worried about the baby, he’s worried he can’t handle her by himself, he’s a creature of routine who doesn’t like changes to how things usually go.
None of this is “wrong,” but if he’s parsing this as an issue of your daughter’s emotional comfort…I don’t know. Isn’t it better for her to spend an occasional night without you, and get used to it? Isn’t it better to accustom her to occasional changes in her routine so they don’t overwhelm her every time? Every kid is different, but if Daddy has to do the bedtime ritual for a couple of nights, it’s probably not going to kill her, and if she cries for you, well, that’s not going to kill her either. Daddy kind of needs to learn to cope with that eventuality, methinks.
But you and your husband need to have a longer discussion about these expectations generally. I myself think it’s eminently healthy for partners to have parts of their lives that are theirs alone — girls’ weekends, solo mini-cations, whatever — and would feel suffocated by the assumption that every moment outside of work must be spent as a family. Other people need that togetherness and feel lost without it. The trick is to come together with your husband on who needs what and how that will work.
Second question: I kind of can’t answer this, because Meg herself seems pretty determined to avoid the discussion. I would suggest that you just call her up and try to clear the air, but it sounds like you’ve tried that and she’s avoiding you. That said, I would try once more with an email, written as gently as you can manage, saying that you don’t want to bring up a touchy subject, but you’re hearing things secondhand from this other friend, you’ve been instructed that the baby is unwelcome socially and conversationally, and you want to respect her feelings, but you…don’t actually know her feelings.
It’s fine to try to accommodate her need to avoid painful reminders, but Meg is your friend, so is this other friend, and this is your child; I see where everyone’s coming from with trying to protect Meg, but maybe it’s time to point out that it’s not without cost to you — especially since Meg herself hasn’t told you anything, about anything, in half a year. And it’s definitely time to point out that, if Meg has an issue with you, or with you having a kid when she does not, then it’s really Meg who needs to address that with you.
I mean, yes, your friends are being a little melodramatic with this, I think, and the assumption that you will spend the entire 48 hours banging on about rice cereal and Dr. Spock is dumb and pretty insulting. Some parents do do this; most parents have cable, and opinions about things besides toileting strategies.
You might consider not attending this girls’ weekend, actually — not because it makes it easier for everyone else, although I guess it does, but because it makes it easier for you. You don’t have to deal with your husband’s disapproval, or drive back and forth, or walk on eggshells around Meg, et cetera and so on. But if you decide not to go, you should spend the time addressing the issues it raises. Tell your friend you don’t want her speaking for the group anymore; if Meg has something to say, she can say it, and so can the others, but you read and watch movies and you can speak to other topics besides the baby, thanks ever so. Tell your husband that he should take a bigger role in your daughter’s bedtime when he’s around; tell him that, sometimes, you need girl time with your other friends, and it’s not a rejection of the family — it’s you doing something to recharge so that you can bring more to the family.
And tell yourself, while you’re up, that you’re doing the best you can and you’re not going to please everyone. Compassion and kindness don’t mean you have to let other people decide who you are.
Dear Sars,
I’ve been in a relationship with F. for almost 9 months. We were friends first, then became fuck-buddies — though it only took a week before we became an actual couple. But I fucked up: three weeks after we got together, one of our common friend kissed me while we were both drunk, and F. came in the room and saw us. It was a stupid, one-time mistake, and all I can say in my defense is that I was drunk and that it lasted maybe two seconds.
F. just acted as if he hadn’t seen anything, then listened to us when we apologized. I offered to break things off between us (and go back to being friends if he wanted to) if he couldn’t forgive me or get past it, but he insisted that we stay together. Over the next week, I asked several times if he was certain about his decision, and every time he told me he didn’t want us to break up. So I stopped talking about it, thanked God I had found such a wonderful guy who would forgive me, and went on to have the best relationship I’ve ever had.
But four months later, during an idiotic fight, he suddenly told me that he was thinking about it all the time and that it was killing him, that I had “cheated” on him and that he wished he would have punched each of us and left back then.
I was probably extremely naive, but I honestly never saw it coming. And since then, not a week has gone by without him throwing it in my face, either randomly whenever I mention anything that might remind him of that day — for instance, just the name of the alcohol we were drinking — or whenever we have a fight, even if it’s about something completely different.
I love F. and would do anything to be with him, and I’m honestly sorry and hate myself for hurting him — but recently I’ve started thinking: was it really so bad that it warranted such a reaction? Sars, we had been “serious” for only 10 days, and it was a drunken-2-seconds kiss, and since then I’ve done everything I could to make him happy.
But he keeps talking about it, again and again, going on fights that last for hours (where it’s basically just him talking about it). He says it’s destroying him, but it’s starting to destroy me too, and I don’t know what to do. When we’re not talking about it we’re so good together, and I don’t want to lose him, but I feel like I’m being constantly punished and I don’t know how long I can take it. I’ve asked several times if he wanted to break up (while making it clear I wouldn’t, if it was up to me), since he says he’s hurting so much and I don’t want that, but he never has.
I accept that I did a wrong thing and that he might not forgive me — but I’m a firm believer that, if you forgive someone, you shouldn’t keep bringing up their past mistakes. I’ve tried talking to him about it, but he’s made it clear he’s the victim and I have no right to be hurt or say anything about it, so now I just shut up and avoid all of the subjects of conversation that might bring it up, then keep quiet and apologize when he’s talking about it.
What can I do, Sars? I’m afraid talking will only lead to a break-up, but is there any chance waiting and hoping will do the trick?
Guilty But Hurting
Dear GBH,
It should lead to a break-up — initiated by you. He’s blackmailing you emotionally, and you’re permitting it.
It is past time for you to make it clear to him that either he forgives you and finds a way to get past it, or you will leave. You are sorry that it happened, you are sorry you hurt him, and he doesn’t have to forgive you if he doesn’t want to, or can’t — but if he doesn’t decide to move on from it, you are done.
Do it the next time he brings it up. Stay calm, but don’t let him talk over you; say your piece, and give him to understand that you will not have this discussion anymore. Leave the room if he starts in on it again; leave the room every time. Hang up the phone, get your shoes on, whatever it takes — he keeps harping on this because he can, so get it through his head that he can’t. And if he gets all “WELL FINE THEN JUST GO YOU OBVIOUSLY DON’T CARE ABOUT ME YOU CHEATY HAG,” he’s doing it because he knows you don’t want him to think of you that way, and you’ll cave. Don’t. You’re better than being spoken to like that.
No: you are. You made a mistake, you’ve done your time, you’re better than that. I get that nobody wants to see that, and I get that the image is hard to scrub from your brain, but: “destroying him”? Come on. He’s playing on your guilt, and I think you have to forgive yourself, and let him stop holding your toes to the flame for a drunken smooch. If it were worth ending the relationship over, he’d have done that; he’s had opportunities. He doesn’t, because this way is better for him. This way, he can manipulate you.
That’ll quite do. He lets this go, or you will go your own self. You will not hear about it anymore; if he persists, you will break things off. However “good you are together” aside from this, it isn’t genuine, because you know this argument is always lurking, and you know he’s set it up so you can’t win. No good. Either he loves you enough to make himself get over it or he doesn’t, and I know you dread finding out which it is, but like I said: better than that.Put your foot down and get it over with.
Tags: boys (and girls) friendships
Adoption is an incredibly long and expensive process – waiting lists of, like, 8 years and costs of approx. $20,000.
Fertility treatments ain’t exactly cheap, fast, or easy.
I realize my original comment may be considered insensitive, but the comment that “There are freaking crack whores out there having 3 or 4 babies in their drug-addled lifetimes,” pushed my creepy eugenics button, and I felt compelled to say something in the midst of all the sympathy because to me (and perhaps only me) the pain of the adoption process has to be a whole lot more manageable than the pain of losing multiple babies. But I also have crappy-ass genes that I wouldn’t want to inflict on the next generation, so what do I know?
For Good: Your husband’s arguments are, to me, extremely silly, to me. The baby doesn’t know whether it’s “for work.” If you can go away for work without traumatizing the baby (which I firmly, entirely believe you can), you can go away with your friends. Husband has other issues, and Sars is right — it’s not about the trip.
To me, the other stuff breaks down into three different problems. First of all, Meg not responding to e-mails and calls. Not answering your calls and e-mails is, I agree, hurtful, and you have every right to be hurt. If she needs distance from baby talk, she should tell you that rather than freezing you out.
Two is whether not wanting to come to your house constitutes “treating you like crap.” Which, to me, it doesn’t at all. I think it’s very odd that you’d suddenly feel “treated like crap” because they don’t change the entire way the weekend works — as a getaway for everyone, not conducted at anyone’s home — simply because you had a baby. Your daughter changes everything for you, but it changes very little for your friends in terms of the fact that they’d probably still prefer a getaway and not a home visit, and I’m a little puzzled that you’re so puzzled, if I can put it that way.
I think you’d admit that if a trip to your house from base camp takes an hour and the weekend is only two nights long, a diversion to your house would eat up a significant amount of the weekend; it’s not like they’re refusing to walk out to the hotel lobby and say hi. Frankly, your husband sounds like a pill, as Sars mentioned, and I’d guess at least part of the problem is that your friends don’t want to spend a big part of their weekend with him.
The final problem is Interfering Friend, whose entire statement at this point seems to have been, “No, we’re not going to spend a significant chunk of the weekend as a big ‘meet-the-baby’ visit, because Meg would not enjoy having her treasured weekend away with friends turn into another opportunity to look at a baby and cry.” This seems, quite frankly, eminently reasonable to me. From this, you seem to have concluded that you will not be allowed to mention your daughter, which nobody said. There’s a huge difference between not talking about your daughter at all and not diverting a big part of the weekend into a “come admire the baby” visit. I think on this part, you’ve got to cut her some slack.
I don’t think other people are thinking about your daughter as much as you think. I think they’re assuming the trip is the same trip you’ve been taking for years, and when you suggested changing the routine to include a special come-admire-the-baby outing, Interfering Friend was like, “Probably not on that, because Meg’s not really into baby-admiring-trips, what with her ongoing fertility issues and all.” You need to talk to Meg directly about Meg’s lack of communication with you, but I think that’s about the only thing you’ve got a legitimate beef about.
Inapp, you wrote “He told a joke about sleeping with me.” – It’d be over it & done, right there, illness or no. Why would you want to be with someone who will humiliate you for a cheap laugh? Screw that- oh wait, you already did. It’s good that you can be so forgiving, but stay friends, Inapp. For now anything more would be a bucket of pain & drama.
Good, I’d bet the girls are just rallying around Meg and doing anything they can to protect her from further heartbreak. Those are good buddies. I’m sure the ban on your adorable offspring is part of that. They’ve gone overboard for a good cause. I agree with Sars, if there’s any way to ask Meg directly, that would be best. And I agree with all Sars said, except I think you should go. It’ll charge your batteries, give you a break from mom-hood (esp. if you are a SAHM) & I can nearly guarantee you’ll come home grateful for your own lovely life. And your daughter will be just fine – she NEEDS little changes in her life to cope with the bazillions of changes she’ll encounter later on in real life- creating a static every-day-the-same world isn’t doing her any favors. Go, have fun. Drink wine, laugh your ass off. Your hubby’s issues with your independance will still be there when you get back.
GBH – He will NEVER forgive you, he doesn’t WANT to! He’s getting off on making you feel terrible & low, he loves it, it makes him HAPPY. What sort of asshat enjoys that shit? Do you? I put up with this some of this crap from my ex, and it doesn’t ever get any better. RUN, GBH, RUN!!!!
I think it’s very odd that you’d suddenly feel “treated like crap”
From the original letter: “I’m wondering if maybe my husband is right when he says they’re kind of treating me like crap”
“a special come-admire-the-baby outing”
From the original letter: “my husband asked why my friends couldn’t be a little accommodating and come spend part of a day here where we live”
Sorry to pile on your comment in particular, there, Linda — but a number of comments here have been assigning insensitivities to Good that are actually suggestions FROM HER HUSBAND that would make HIS life easier for the weekend. Everyone’s welcome to their opinion of how Good should handle the situation, but it should proceed from what the letter actually says.
re: Good. I’ve been on all sides of her situation and had friends there too. Further, I’m cribbing off of advice given to me by my mom — who’s really smart and has been happily married to my dad for over 45 years.
First, with respect to the girls’ weekend in general. One weekend away once a year does not make you a bad mom/wife. More likely, it makes you a better mom/wife because you get to recharge away from the 24/7 job of being a wife and mom. I have 2 wonderful kids whom I love more than life itself, a full time very demanding job, and one of the most supportive, helpful, loving husbands in the world. Guess what? I still need to get away from them sometimes and just have fun with my girlfriends. I don’t think that Good’s husband is so much worried about the effect on their daughter, but more about how he’ll handle being alone with her (IMO it’s harder with a toddler than a baby who’ll be much less aware of what’s going on and it easier to take care of). Go, have fun, get silly with your girls, then come back to hubby and daughter.
As for some or all of the friends coming to see the baby? No, just no. This is not a see the family weekend. It’s Girls Weekend — made for you all to get together and reconnect without the pressures of husband, work, kids, home, etc. If the friend who hasn’t met daughter wants to come see her, she can do it before the official start or after the end of girls weekend. Or maybe husband can drive you to or pick you up from girls weekend with daughter in tow and it can be arranged for when Meg hasn’t arrived or had already left if need be. Husband wanting them to come visit is based, again, on his desire not to be alone with daughter the whole weekend.
I don’t want to be bashing husband — I don’t think he’s acting purposefully to hurt Good or ruin girls weekend. I also think that he brought up an excellent point. Good, you really need to book THREE types of trips: (1) family trip for all 3 of you; (2) girls weekend, so you can get away; and, perhaps most important, if you have parents or other reliable childcare; (3) a weekend away for just you and husband so you can reconnect without dealing with daughter, jobs, shifts, the house, etc. It’s really important to get away and remember that you like each other.
As for the Meg situation, I think Sars is right. You should call her and talk to her directly. I miscarried my first pregnancy and found out 2 months later that 3 of my closest friends were each pregnant with their 2nd. I honestly wanted to throw up in the middle of the street when my one friend told me. I was truly happy for all of them, but filled with horrible thoughts. I was lucky and got pregnant the following month and carried to term, but at the time, it was so hard to look at babies or pregnant women. Have a direct conversation with Meg about where she is and how you each feel, then let it go.
Good, go, have fun.
Throwing in on the fertility/adoption issue…
My sister has three kids, the first two of which were concieved with heavy and prolonged medical assistance. The pregnancies were unbelievablly hard on her (huge blood pressure issues) and they had to do two C sections and the babies had to be in incubators due to her medical issues. A hair raising deal all around.
After the first one and midway through the second pregnancy, I asked if she’d considered adoption, considering everything. She told me they had, but with fees and such, adoption cost just as much as what they were doing, with the huge difference that there was no insurance coverage for adoption. They just didn’t have the money for it. That made me sad.
For Good…it sounds to me less that he is unsure in his parenting skills, and more that he doesn’t think those things are his job to do. As I read, I just kept thinking this guy was rather controlling and manipulative.
Your kid will be fine. Go enjoy a weekend with your friends. Do not let your hubby make you think your friends are being mean, or don’t care about your feelings.
(And, FWIW, I am not getting the sense that the friends all don’t want to see baby, they just thought it was inappropriate for that particular weekend. And, as a single person in her 30s with MANY friends with kids, I can’t blame them, even without having other traumas. It’s ok to have a life away from the kids once in a while.)
I appreciate all the clarifications I’ve read from you, Sars, as to what my original letter said. And I appreciate everyone’s input. A couple of clarifications since I think I may have left out some details in an effort to keep things as concise as possible.
I get why Meg wouldn’t want to hang around my daughter right now and I don’t expect the weekend to change to include my daughter all the time. My main issue is that one of my closest friends has not ever met my daughter, she’s going to be in town for the first time in a long time and may not be back again soon, AND there is also an opportunity where Meg has a previous committment and this friend could easily make a trip to my house or I could bring my daughter to meet her for a brief time without Meg being involved or abandoned. If everyone had already met my daughter, I wouldn’t even consider involving her in a girls weekend. Plus, when the “no babies allowed” discussion occurred, I had not mentioned my daughter in relation to the weekend at all. It was so early in the planning stages that I hadn’t given it that much thought. Another reason was I was so taken aback and why I took from that that mentioning her at all would not be allowed either. There’s also a history with this group of them always being reluctant to come to where I live (we always stay at someone’s home for these weekends). I’ve offered in the past, before kids, marriage, etc., and have been turned down every time mainly because I live in the suburbs and that’s not “cool” (funnily enough, they all now live in suburbs).
Anyway, I think that’s part of where my husband’s comment came from as well, besides him not wanting me to be gone. I end up traveling every year, whether it’s within driving distance or flying, and all of them have had at least one year where the weekend was in their city. Of course, this year isn’t the best to bring that up, obviously, but that’s part of my husband’s motivation for the comment.
As for the husband, I had a feeling he was just being unreasonable, but since the whole mom thing is still relatively new for me, I thought maybe I was wrong. The reason we haven’t taken a vacation is largely due to money. The travel for these girls’ weekends is relatively reasonable due to splitting costs and lodging is free, but there are still the costs of doing things, eating out, etc., so it’s not super cheap either. So I can see the point a couple people made where that might be a reason for his upset. He does need to step up and do the bedtime routine at least every now and then because things do happen in life where mommy might not be home at bedtime every night. I’ve said this to him in the past, but then end up doing the bedtime thing myself out of habit. I need to make a point to make him do it while I’m home so he can see that everything will be fine and our daughter loves him, too.
As for the communication I’ve attempted with Meg, I did not mention my daughter. Ever. Most of the time I didn’t even mention the whole trying to conceive situation. I left voicemails saying I was just calling to say hi. I sent emails offering to go meet her for lunch with just the two of us. When that didn’t work, in an effort to keep her somewhat in my life, I sent her an email letting her know about changes at work for me and a serious illness my husband went through as well as asking simple questions about her life that didn’t involve pregnancy/kids/etc. No response. I wasn’t expecting huge emails or long phone conversations, just a sentence or two to let me know she was reading my emails and that she didn’t hate me or something. Believe me, I’ve gone through some bad times in my life and I get not wanting to talk to a bunch of people about it or many people at all. I just didn’t expect to not hear anything from her at all for so long while she continued to communicate with our other friends.
As an update, I have spoken to Meg since sending in the letter. Since some group emails have gone back and forth about the weekend next month, I thought I’d give calling another shot. Imagine my surprise when she answered. The funny thing was that she talked as if she had never cut off communcation with me. I responded with a huge, surprised “Hi! How are you?” when she answered (not trying to be insensitive, but seriously just shocked that she answered the phone after so much time) and asked questions about her life from six months ago (i.e., “so what ended up happening with …?”) that didn’t involve pregnancies and she didn’t acknowledge the gap in time between our last conversation at all. It was odd. I thought at some point she’d mention something about how long it had been since we’d actually spoken, even if just a “wow, that was a long time ago.” Something. Then I was going to say “yeah, I feel bad that it’s been so long, but I’m guessing you didn’t really feel like talking to anyone for awhile,” and then if she wanted to respond by saying “no, it was just too hard to talk to YOU,” fine, but if not, that would be fine, too. Just so that it was out in the open and we could move on from there.
She did talk a little about the miscarriages and things related to that and I listened and empathized, but didn’t feel like I could ask anything or bring up any touchy subjects because of the odd way the conversation was going. She did ask about my daughter in an off-handed kind of way because despite my best attempts to keep her quiet, Meg heard her in the background. The topic was quickly changed after that. So while she may not be as sensitive as Other Friend let on, I’d say she’s not too far off. And maybe I should have just sucked it up and brought up the touchy subjects of the communication freeze-out and how she feels about any mentions of my daughter, but the whole thing was just so odd I didn’t know what to do. Plus I was happy just to have her talking to me again and I feel like our friendship is kind of on shaky ground right now. I’m afraid that if I say the wrong thing or if, God forbid, something else goes wrong for her in her effort to conceive, I might not ever hear from her again.
All in all, I’m not sure what I’m going to do about next month. Some work issues have come up in the meantime that will make taking time off difficult as well, so the whole thing might just be one big ball of stress. But I’m glad to know that I’m not being unreasonable when it comes to the issue with my husband. Obviously the issue with Meg is … complicated. And I want everyone to know that while I can’t really know what Meg is going through, that I get that it’s devastating and awful and sad. I cried when I found out about each of her miscarriages. If this situation does lead to us not being as close anymore, as sad as that would make me, I pray to God she does end up having a healthy child.
I gather that Good and Husband haven’t travelled together anywhere since the birth. I also get that this is only the second trip Good has taken away from home. My question is whether Husband has taken any trips anywhere. If he has, he’s just being a manipulative jerk. If he hasn’t, that may be the real issue that needs to be addressed rather than this upcoming girls-weekend.
Couples both need time away. (I would say more than one weekend a year but YMMV.) But, everything goes wrong even faster if one person takes the occasional weekend away and the other doesn’t. If he hasn’t gone somewhere for a wekeend with the boys, he needs to be pushed into doing so. Otherwise, he’s going to continue to act like a pill and it’ll only get worse. A person with a martyr-complex gets REALLY hard to live with long term. (Unfortunately, I know this intimately from both sides of the equation.)
Good: so, your daughter may cry for mommy. First, she’s a year and half old — she won’t remember it. Second, what if she were older, and could remember? Is it so bad a thing to see her mother go and be a person of her own? The example you’re setting is twofold: that you trust your husband to be a good parent, and that you are a person in your own right, with your own friends and interests. In other words, you’re showing your daughter how to be a good mommy, a trustful marriage partner, and a happy, responsible person. How is that bad? Your husband needs to get over it — and frankly, should have been more involved in daughter’s care before now, such that she wouldn’t cry so hard for mommy. So, yeah, this is now his opportunity for Super Daddy Daughter Weekend. You can also make this a deal: you get a weekend off, so he gets a weekend off, someday, to go fishing with his buds or whatever.
It’s true that the suggestion originally came from her husband, but it does sound like she presented this option to her friends, and was then taken aback that the friends didn’t want to incorporate s half-day trip to meet the baby into the girl weekend.
From the original letter: “So one of my other friends in the group pretty much told me that there wouldn’t be any trips to my house because Meg isn’t going to want to be around any kids. I was so taken aback I just kind of agreed, but once I hung up the phone and processed it, I was kind of shocked”
I agree that Good should wait to hear this from Meg, but is it possible the other friends might be using Meg (at least partially) as an excuse? Meaning, they don’t want to spend part of their weekend hanging out at Good’s house. I’m not willing to say that I think Good is being insensitive to Meg, but sounds like Good did actually present this as an option and is now upset and/or confused by the fact that her friends aren’t into the idea. Whether the original idea came from her or her husband is a little irrelevant.
It sounds like Good is having a hard time reconciling Good as a person and Good as a wife/mother, and neither side is making things any easier on her. Hopefully, Husband and Friends will all see they need to cut her a little slack. Good luck, girl!
“Plus, I’m assuming my friend who has never met my daughter would like to see her. It’s the first time she’s going to be in the area in two years and she’ll only be an hour away, but because of Meg she won’t.”
Stop assuming that your friend wants to meet your baby. I’ve been in the “your baby is boring” camp for pretty much my entire adult life. I make an exception for nieces and nephews, but that’s about it.
I’ve also been trying (unsuccessfully) to get pregnant for the last 18 months. If I didn’t already NOT want to meet your baby, I really don’t now.
Well, looks like a lot of my previous comment was made moot by Good’s response. Feel free not to post!
Good, I think you’re putting undue focus/attention on Other Friend (aka Not Meg) not going out of her way to meet your child. I can absolutely see why you would feel hurt by this, and it is kind of annoying she hasn’t bucked up and just dropped by. But it’s likely just not high on her list of priorities. As someone who doesn’t have children, and isn’t particularly wowed by babies, the concept of dropping everything to go “meet” so-and-so’s baby is really a bit tedious. I mean, it’s a baby. There’s not much “meeting” happening. You’re not going to get much out of it that you couldn’t get from a Facebook photo album. For me it’s usually an exercise in dropping off the obligatory gift I inevitably never got around to sending for the baby shower, and cooing about how cute, and asking inane questions like “wow, is she tall for age? she seems tall for her age.” (as if I would have ANY clue how to actually measure this, nor do I care). There’s just not much to it. At least when you’re meeting someone’s significant other for the first time, there’s the fun of finding out what they like to do, telling embarrassing old stories, etc. I’d cut Other Friend some slack. It’s a girls’ weekend, and she doesn’t sound like she’s in a very ‘baby’ place right now. Showing up to roll around on the carpet with your child probably isn’t looking as appealing to her as museums, manicures and happy hour. Try not to measure the value of her friendship on this one thing.
@Good- sweet! I love it when the letter writers get a chance to expand since being concise means we don’t get the whole story.
The conversation with Meg does sound a bit weird. I have many friends with multiple kids and jobs and husbands and when we finally do catch up with each other, one of the first things I hear is ‘I’m so sorry we haven’t talked in a while!’ or ‘I’m sorry I didn’t respond to your e-mail-I was just so busy’, etc. It’s unnecessary because I’m a pretty low maintenance friend- if I really have something important to talk to them about or really *need* to talk to them, I tell them that in an e-mail or voicemail. Maybe Meg was feeling guilty about not communicating with you and wanted to brush over that/pretend it didn’t happen so that she wouldn’t have to explain? That’s about the only reason I can think of.
Have you ever come out and asked them why the weekends weren’t allowed to happen at your place prior to the kiddo being born? That does seem odd and I’d want to know why, personally. You can say it without sounding upset about it. Are the other ladies married and yet still have it at their houses? I’m just wondering. If they start having kids and still have it at their houses, I’d be asking what was up then for sure.
On you and your husband not having the time, funds, etc for a get away- what about a friend (you seem to have sitters/helpers around already) taking your daughter for an evening that your husband has off and you can do some cheesy island theme decorations around the house, put on some Hawaiian movies, buy some little umbrellas to put in your drinks, have some Hawaiian food, etc and have a mini-vacation at home? You guys getting to spend some time together is the important thing and showing him that you want special time with him as well as with your friends might make him feel better. Doing it with purpose might help make it so you don’t end up using the evening to catch up on the laundry or cleaning the house. Just a thought. Dinner and a movie can work, too, but that might be more spendy depending on where you live.
Whoops! I see that you already explained why they didn’t want to come to your house before:
‘I’ve offered in the past, before kids, marriage, etc., and have been turned down every time mainly because I live in the suburbs and that’s not “cool” (funnily enough, they all now live in suburbs).’
Also, on your husband giving you a hard time about the girls weekends- I will say that my brother is more ‘traditional’ and he wasn’t super excited for my sister-in-law taking a long weekend to go with her friend (for free) to Palm Springs. When I talked to him about it, he mentioned that our Mom never did anything like that. To which I said, ‘yeah, and she always seemed so super happy didn’t she?’ My sister-in-law had a great time and my brother and nephew did just fine. My brother then got to take a guy trip and all is well, but my point is, could another factor be that your husband isn’t used to Moms that take breaks? Maybe he just needs some examples and some horizon broadening. I’m betting all this is a conglomeration of reasons for him. Dealing with it now will be better than dealing with it when your daughter is 5, though. From my experience with my siblings kids, it seems like it’s better to be away from the kids when they are younger and get them used to it then than waiting until they are school age.
Good – I think you need to take a step back from the Meg communication thing and take a breath. Maybe I’m projecting here, but I think it’s pretty likely that it…has nothing to do with you. I did a similar disappearing act on most of my friends a few years ago. I’m not proud of it, and there wasn’t really a good excuse, but it happened. It had absolutely nothing to do with not wanting to talk to *them*. It was more that I was in a really bad, really stressful place (job stress, marriage stress, critically ill family member stress, depression, and various other crises in seriata) and I just needed to hide for a while. I know it hurt my friends a great deal, but I also really appreciated the fact that they let me come to them rather than dropping a big You Have Hurt Me convo on my lap. And I did come back to them, eventually.
I guess what I’m telling you is that you can do two things to help diffuse the Meg situation. First, STOP taking it so damned personally. Stop reading so much about you and your daughter into everything she does/says/doesn’t do/doesn’t say. Just drop that angle completely. These inferences are still entirely internal and I think it’s really getting in the way of your ability to honestly relate to her. Find a place of empathy and understanding for your friend who is going through a tough time, and don’t focus on the way that tough time tangentially relates to you. Second, move on with her and be happy to talk to her when you can. Let go of the idea that you’re going to clear the air about the past 6 months. You probably won’t. Accept that, and if it ends up happening, that’s great.
Again, I may be projecting from the position of having (sort of) been in Meg’s shoes, but the extent to which you see this problem as being All About You really comes through in both your original letter and your follow-up. Let that go. You’ll feel less injured, and you’ll be in a better position to listen to your friend. Good luck.
For Good –
I am a first time mommy of a now-16-month-old boy. I have to tell you that I have noticed VERY clear lines between friends that have children, and friends that don’t. Having a child changes your life. It changes your priorities, your outlook, your opinions, your time management, even your stress levels. Its not just that there’s another little person living in your house. I understand your confusion and your viewpoint on how your friends are acting. In their defense, they don’t have kids, and really can’t (really, can’t) understand what the big deal is. But, its a big deal to you, and that being the case, good friends would at least acknowledge that. You are right to be a little hurt by it all, but maybe if they don’t know what you’re thinking or feeling on the subject, they are just oblivious – not insensitive. Bit of a difference. Talk to them. Tell them that your daughter is a HUGE part of your life, and you’d like to share that part with them at least a little. I agree – you have other things to bring to the conversational table, but ignoring the fact that you have a child when you’re with them will make you miserable. Go. Have fun. And TALK to them. If it doesn’t go well, and they really don’t care, then you know not to bother next time around.
Inapp: As someone who has, on two occasions, gotten seriously romantically involved with boys with serious mental health issues (yeah, I’m a slow learner), I really feel the need to second Sars’s advice. She is *absolutely* right: no matter how lovely and awesome this boy is, getting involved with him right now as anything other than a friend would be a bad idea both for you and for him. In my experience (which, I’m told, is pretty typical), it’s too easy to fall into an intense and one-sided “caregiver” type role which, while not bad in itself, isn’t really ideal for a sexual/romantic relationship: not only can it be very draining for the person in Florence Nightingale-mode, but it can allow (or even inadvertently encourage) the person with issues to avoid doing what they need to do to take care of themselves and get as stable as possible. What’s more, even if/when the mental health issues get stabilized or resolved and the caregiver role is no longer appropriate to the situation, it’s really hard for both parties to escape this kind of relationship dynamic once it’s already in place, and that in itself can be enough to doom the relationship.
Obviously with bi-polar disorder there’s probably no chance that this guy’s problems are just going to vanish overnight, but it is possible to learn to manage this condition so that the highs and lows are less disruptive to everyone involved. That’s hard (but rewarding) work that the boy has to do largely on his own, with the help of his doctors and/or therapists, and having a new significant other in the picture would probably do him more harm than good. I’d say, be a good and supportive friend, but nothing more, until this boy has a *much* longer consistent track record of staying out of the hospital (as well as of managing his manic episodes). At that point you’ll have a shot at building a stable and healthy romantic relationship, if that’s what you both still want.
Inapp – as someone who is bipolar I can tell you that it could be a huge challenge to deal with, even if he’s medicated appropriately. The most difficult thing to understand about BP is that it affects our impulse control. And although that doesn’t excuse bad behavior, it does explain it. Anyone who loves someone who is BP can tell you that the significant other has to manage the disease almost as much as the BP. I am well medicated and highly functional but still will say horrible, evil things to my husband even though as the words are coming out of my mouth, I know they’re hurtful. Often, all I can do is damage control. He has learned to differentiate between when it’s me or the disease but I can see him struggle to understand a lot of the time. I think if he weren’t the most patient man I’ve ever met, it would be nothing but drama.
Getting deeply involved with a BP is a very big commitment and requires work by both partners. I would caution you about just jumping in without knowing what you’re getting into. If he’s been hospitalized more than once, he’s got a tough row to hoe. Do you really want to have to take a backseat to his illness? Bipolars, for the most part, HATE to be medicated (mania can be awesome) and we are the most likely group to go off our meds without warning. I highly recommend that you read Bipolar Disorder for Dummies before you go any further with the relationship on any level.
@Sarah: When she says “I’m wondering if my husband is right that they’re treating me like crap,” I believe “treating me like crap” are her words, not his words. My understanding of the sequence was that he said he didn’t see why they wouldn’t come to the house since it would keep her from having to be away so long; she seems to have come up with “treating me like crap” on her own. Or at least that’s what I thought happened; that’s what I was going on.
Similarly, she emphasized that one of the friends had never met the baby, and her primary argument seemed to be that she didn’t understand why they didn’t want to come see the baby, not why they didn’t want to come to the house. Frankly, if it’s not so they can see the baby, I can’t imagine what her argument would be for why they should spend two hours out of their short weekend driving to and from her house.
I should add, though, that Good’s clarification that they seem to be willing to stay at everybody’s house except hers is much more weird. When she vaguely referred to “where we’re staying,” I assumed she would have mentioned if it was someone’s house, and the “splitting the travel costs” led me down the wrong path of assuming they stayed in hotels.
I agree that if they won’t stay at your house, ever, then that’s weirder and you have a much better case. I think you’d be well within your rights to ask whether they intend to never allow you to host, in which case they are dolts.
You sound like you’re handling it just right, though, in all honesty, including the part where maybe it’s too much of a pain in the fanny to go this year.
Whoa. I had to go look up “DTMFA”. You crazy kids nowadays.
I have a 13 YO son, so I’m coming at Good’s dilemma with 13-odd (sometimes *very* odd, LOL!) years of perspective. Others have covered the “Meg” issue very well from a multitude of angles, but I wanted to suggest that there may be an underlying dynamic between Good and her spouse that may be contributing to his reluctance to step up as caregiver for the weekend she wants to go away.
When mom is the primary caregiver, it’s very easy for her to get into a mindset in which there is only one right way to do something, and – by G-d – it’s *mom’s* way. When dad does attempt to jump in on anything relating to childcare – diapering, bathing, when to pick up a crying baby, feeding, and even how to put on a onesie – his contributions may not exactly be welcomed with open arms. Instead, he may be met with everything from eyes rolling so far back in mom’s head that they threaten to come out her spinal cord; to mom actually RE-doing whatever it is that dad just did; to mom providing play-by-play instructions of the “right” way to do the task as he does it; to a post-mortem critical deconstruction by mom of everything he did wrong. Particularly if mom is a bit “Type A”, she can make dad feel like he just can’t win – he’s become an inept, unnecessary appendage. This may be because the mom-gig is how she is measuring her “success” and self-worth (in my experience, moms who had careers that have been put on hold may be prone to this), or because the baby has become not just the center of her world but her ENTIRE world and she, conversely, needs to feel as though she is the *child’s* entire world in that no one could possibly do things as well, or be as good a parent, as she is.
But whatever the reason for mom’s behavior, the result is often that dad decides it’s easier and less of an ego-zapper to just … punt. He can stay in the background and be the “color commentator” while mom does the play-by-play, coaches the team, scores the touchdowns, and even runs the concession stand. This becomes a self-perpetuating cycle, because dad is not getting the necessary “on the job training” to become competent at caring for his child, so he begins to doubt his instincts and ability, and more and more he relies upon mom to do the lion’s share of caring for the kiddo so he gets less and less hands-on experience (and confidence).
The danger in this, of course, is that there WILL almost certainly come a time when dad will need to step up because mom is unavailable (in my case, it was an emergency hospitalization to remove a horribly-infected gall bladder when my son was just 9 months old); in addition, very rigid (and somewhat negative) attitudes about male/female roles will also be perpetuated/communicated to the child.
Good, I’m not saying that you are doing any of these things, or that – if you are – you are doing them consciously or maliciously. I’ve just seen this type of behavior in SO many of my female friends and – yes – in myself as well, when our kids were little, that I couldn’t help but think it might be contribuing to your husband’s issues with your get-away. As women, career people, daughters, friends, lovers, sitcom junkies, weekend tennis warriors, and all the rest of the attributes and interests that make us who we were *before* we had kids, we need to remember that we are so many things other than moms. We also need to allow our partners to make decisions about childcare, and to accept that our way may not be the only way. Or even the BEST way. It will not kill our kids if their socks don’t match their shirt, or if they are rocked for 15 minutes before they go to sleep instead of 10, or if they watch “Blue’s Clues” instead of “Little Einstein” DVDs. Or even if they cry a little because they miss their mom. In the long-run, your husband will become a more confident parent, and your child will become more flexible and independent.
Some of the other posters have characterized your husband as selfish and immature. That may be true, but it’s also possible that some of your husband’s resistance to taking on the care of your child for the weekend may -just possibly – be related to criticism that you’ve unwittingly been meting out when he does try to jump in. He may feel as though he will mess up or that he is not “good enough”; he may not have been able to gather enough experience in the tasks he will have to complete solo in your absence to feel like he can do them capably.
(Oh, yeah, and vis a vis the “meeting of the child” issue … I think that Slices totally nails a point that most of us parents have to learn the hard way: “[For] someone who doesn’t have children, and isn’t particularly wowed by babies, the concept of dropping everything to go “meet” so-and-so’s baby is really a bit tedious. I mean, it’s a baby. There’s not much “meeting” happening. You’re not going to get much out of it that you couldn’t get from a Facebook photo album.”)
Anyhow, I just wanted to throw this perspective into the rest of the mix. I hope you can figure out a gameplan that works for all involved, and that you have a great time!
To paraphrase what Sophie said above, a relationship that was begun in sickness (physical or emotional) is liable to end when on achieves health. The dynamics, priorities, goals – it all changes profoundly. I’ve experienced it many times, in the role of the “sick” person and the “healthy” person.
If he’s a great guy, encourage him to get his conditions under control, and to KEEP them that way. If he’s able to demonstrably do that, and in ~6 months you still feel attracted, maybe then you can approach it again – but lay it out on the table that although you know some aspects of the relationship are going to end up on stage, the lines are *here* and *here,* and you except them not to EVER be crossed.
Not many entertainers are going to be able to keep their private lives entirely out of their product – a song, a character, a joke, a mannerism or accent… if you’re going to be involved, you have to be able to handle that, but if he’s as sweet, awesome, and apologetic as you say, and if he wants to pursue a relationship with you, he’ll find a way to work it out.
The other thing to think of is the old saying, “People say when they’re drunk what they think when they’re sober.” It may be true and honest that his joke was the bipolar speaking, but keep your eyes open to the fact that some part of his brain had to think it before the rest of his brain could polish it into a joke, specifically invite you to the show, and then say it. It might have been a very clumsy brush off, is what I’m trying to say. He might have had second thoughts about the hook-up, and rather than man up about it, might have chosen to take the “I’ll be such a dick she’ll never even think about doing that again” path. Maybe he doesn’t want you to think there was anything “wrong” with you (depending on the joke!), and maybe he still wants to be on casual/friendly/drama-free terms (hence the apology), so he’s created a situation where all blame is on him. He hurt your feelings but maybe (to his mind) not as much as if he’d said, “Hey, just not feeling it, let’s not do that anymore” and he’s wanting you to feel like you’re in charge of the outcome, instead of feeling rejected.
That last hypothesis seems less likely in view of the hospitalization – that’s a hell of a length to go to to “let someone down gently” especially when you’ve made an intimate joke at their expense in public – but who knows.
Steer clear, or at as much of a distance as you can manage while still being supportive and friendly, and see if he gets things under control.
@Good, another take on this is that you and your friends (and your husband) are all going through normal adjustments of people with adult lives that take different paths. This reminds me of Vine letters about family holiday traditions and all that (I think the one about how single folks are expected to travel the sibs with kid’s home for the holiday.) It might be ok to let go of some of the “traditions” of the girls weekend that worked when everyone was at a similar place in life, and figure out some new ways to make it work for the new dynamic. Maybe you just spend one night with the girls, and put out the offer for folks to stop by your house at the end of the weekend.
I don’t have a husband, so I’m not going to comment on his behavior and motivations, but I do have female friends. It’s always hard when people are going through those phases of getting married (or not), buying and remodeling a house (or not), having kids (or not), getting divorced (or not). Some of the weirdness with Meg and the other friend may just be everyone trying to adjust to that (or not.) Another thought: hopefully, in a year or two, Meg is going to have kid. She’ll probably be going through the same balancing act with her partner about going away for a long weekend, and she’ll probably want to be able to mention her kid when she’s with the group. And then you’ll be able to be the one who “gets it” and you can offer her all of the collective wisdom of The Vine commenters
When she says “I’m wondering if my husband is right that they’re treating me like crap,” I believe “treating me like crap” are her words, not his words.
Her words or his, my feeling is that the *idea* is one that he helped plant in her head because it goes to his argument that she shouldn’t leave him alone with the nipper all weekend. Whether she should be that easily influenced is another discussion, but I took that as his words.
*Her* primary argument, if you can call it that, seems to be about how to make everyone happy in a situation not designed to allow that. I’m sure she wants Other Friend to see the baby; I’m not sure she’d have brought it up had Husband not balked at her going away in the first place.
@Nichol:
~Anyone who loves someone who is BP can tell you that the significant other has to manage the disease almost as much as the BP. I am well medicated and highly functional but still will say horrible, evil things to my husband even though as the words are coming out of my mouth, I know they’re hurtful. Often, all I can do is damage control.~
Not relevant to the topics at hand, but I just wanted to say thanks for posting this. I and other family members have long suspected that my mother is bipolar, and it helps a little to think that some of the occasional nastiness might be part of that.
(And props to you for even *doing* damage control, instead of acting like your husband is in the wrong for feeling hurt.)
I can say that it might be worth Good’s finding out why she STILL never gets to host, given that everyone now seems to be in the uncool suburbs – but it’s possible she may not care for the answer. I do think it’s necessary for her husband to do some independent parenting now, so that Good doesn’t wind up being the primary parent, with Dad being the reluctant “filler” parent when Good isn’t available. Both parents should be parenting – and both parents should be having independent people time, too.
GBH: He’s hugging his hurt to him with much greater affection than anything he feels for YOU. Why would you stay with someone who is so determined to hang onto a stick he can beat you with? Run, run, run.
And that goes for Inappropriate, too. He may be the next greatest thing since sliced bread, but he took a very personal moment with you and turned it into a joke for public consumption – and made sure you came to hear it. That’s a level of pain you can actually avoid, and why opt for pain like that when you have advance warning?
Sars, like some of the other posters, I would LOVE to know how your renovations go!
I have little to add to anything here, but wanted to say that I thought that Sars’s advice to Good was awesome. And Good, you sound like a lovely woman. I’m sure things will all be sorted out.
Anonymous for this one: (by the way, your website is linked there; not sure if that’s a breach for your anonymity) she’s not making it All About Her. The middle friend has TOLD her it’s all about her. And the reasons for Good’s perceptions have been pretty clearly laid out.
@Jaybird: Hee.
Sars, another homeowner here, hoping you *will* devote at least a bit of verbiage to the experience!
@GBH: (Don’t even get me started on the freudian implications of that tagline. )
I think its all been said above, but it really bears repeating. Its been what – 5 months now? Waiting and hoping will NOT do the trick. He will never stop thinking about it, and he will never get over it. Please believe me. I was married to this man for 8 years of my life that I will never get back. Please do not waste 8 years of your life treading on eggshells desperately trying to avoid any mention of: that house; that suburb; that country; that person; that drink; anyone with that name; this is emotional control, and its goal is to make him feel good about himself by making you feel bad.
You made a two second (drunken) mistake for which you felt remorse, apologised, and promised would not happen again. He spends hours berating you and making you feel like crap. He says he’s the victim? He is not the victim, you are. He has actually got you feeling like a complete villain over a silly drunken mistake any one of us could and probably has made.
From his point of view, as long as he is the victim, you have to spend your life running around trying to make him happy, and he has to do nothing. How is this a mutually beneficial relationship?
Also, he does not care for you. He does not respect your feelings, or try to make your life better.
Please break up with him as soon as possible. I wish someone had given me this advice 20 years ago.
GBH: sounds like the classic scenario where the guy wants to break up but doesn’t want to be “the bad guy” so he just becomes a raging asshole and picks fights over stupid shit until you finally, finally break up with him. With some people everything must be entirely your fault at all times. Some guys just can’t resist the easy way out!
By the way, I’m the aforementioned Inappropriate, and the crazy boy and I are now engaged.
And no, I’m not telling you the joke.
Congrats, Inapppropriate!
Here’s to a long and happy life together.