The Vine: June 5, 2008
Hi Sars,
I think this may be a “heavy” topic, to say the least, but I would love your advice on this matter. I have a friend that I’ve known for over 15 years, that was recently arrested for possessing and accessing child porn. I, along with many other people were so shocked by this news, we had NO CLUE.
He was a great guy and taught me a lot about working with kids and how to be a compassionate person. We worked for a residential camp and for an organization that worked with kids. He was arrested months ago, and no one has made any claims (and there is no evidence suggesting) that he ever touched any kids.
I don’t have to tell you that the crime is horrible and that innocent children suffered, that is not up for debate. The thing that is confusing to me is that I can’t stop thinking about him. I’m worried about him. I have never even considered feeling sorry for pedophiles, I’m not willing to open that door, but all of a sudden I am terribly confused. I can’t do much for him; I have children and have no desire to invite him into my home. My concern is that he has left the city were this happened, he is alone and apparently suicidal. I have a friend that met with him and he said that he is a broken man.
What can be done for this person, how can I offer support without seeing him or inviting him into my life? How do I get closure on this? It happened months ago and I can’t stop thinking about it. Any words of wisdom would be greatly appreciated.
Confused
Dear Confused,
You have to find a way to accept, although it’s difficult to do so, that while your compassion for your long-time friend is admirable, this problem — his illness, his actions, the consequences — is too big for you to fix, and is not your responsibility to fix, even in part. I’m sure he loathes himself for this and always has, and that’s pitiable, but it’s also deserved. If he let himself get to this point, he’ll have to get himself back.
But he knows all this, and so do you. Send a letter or an email; tell him what you told me, but tightly edited. Let him know he’s in your thoughts, and although, for obvious reasons, you aren’t comfortable with him contacting you in return, you hope he’s all right and working things out.
You may not feel that you can offer genuine support without seeing him or speaking to him; you may not feel that sending a note where you make it clear that you can’t engage is a helpful thing to do. I can understand how you might see it that way, but if that’s the case, do nothing. This is the bed he made (if you’ll pardon the expression). It’s sad for everyone involved, but not wanting to remind him that he did this to himself doesn’t make it any less true.
Dear Sars,
Over six weeks ago, my lovely, wonderful grandma passed away. She had been sick since the turn of the year with the beginnings of leukemia, and her overall health had been gradually declining over the past several years, but it was still felt very sudden and painful. Death is like that. Even now, my mom is still actively and painfully grieving for her.
The thing is, we never (as per my grandma’s wishes) had a funeral for her. Ever since, my mom has been really clingy towards me and my sister, wanting both of us to move back home (my sister is engaged, so you can see how preposterous that is). She’s also tried to get us to take everything that was in my grandma’s house. Now, I appreciated and was grateful to get some things that held sentimental value to me, like her cookbook and her extra sewing machine, but taking her bottles of lotion, or her alarm clock, wasn’t something I was willing to do.
I think we have funerals, or their equivalent, for a reason, and my mom hasn’t gotten the closure she needs. The rest of the family has seemed okay: sad, but accepting it and trying to move on as best as they’re able. My mom has done nothing of the sort.
Can you think of anything that would help in a situation like this? Have any of the readers had an experience with a non-traditional sort of funeral? I know it’s really up to my mom to let go, but I hate to see her suffer, and it’s not exactly making family dynamics any better, as a lot of frustration and resentment is being built up between me and my sister and our mother. My dad’s a workaholic who doesn’t really spend much time with her, she’s allergic to dogs and cats, and my sister and I can’t be there all the time to fill the gap — we have our own lives.
Do you think a funeral-type thing would help my mom? If so, what? I’m trying to be sympathetic, but I’m getting exasperated at the whole affair.
Ghosts Would Be Helpful, In This Case
Dear Not After Six Weeks,
I’m sorry about the loss of your grandmother.
…You need to try harder. I don’t doubt that your mom’s clinginess is irritating, but…it’s been six weeks. She lost a parent. None of this behavior sounds inappropriate or pathological to me; what it sounds like is loneliness. Her husband “doesn’t really spend much time with her,” and her children apparently resent the inconvenience of her grieving process, despite the fact that, again, she’s not out of bounds that I can see.
If you don’t want the lotion, or the alarm clock, just say “no thanks” and get on with your day, keeping in mind as you do that it has fallen to your mother to clean up/dispose of/settle all these trivial aspects of your grandma’s everyday life, which is a painful process and drudgery to boot. If you can’t move back home, decline regretfully and get on with your day, keeping in mind as you do that your mother may feel like she has nobody to talk to or pass the time with, nobody who also knew her mother.
I understand that her grief is inconveniencing you; think about what it’s doing to her. Think about how you’re going to feel when this day comes, which it will. Your mom is trying to move on. The way she’s doing it isn’t really workable but she’ll figure that out soon enough for herself. What would really “help” her at this point is for you, your sister, and your dad to be a little more flexible with her, because…six weeks. This isn’t a flesh wound. Give her a break.
Hey Sars.
I’ve got a good friend who I think is clinically depressed and I could use an outside opinion. While I realize I can’t help a person who doesn’t want to be helped, it seems wrong to sit by without trying to do something.
I’ll try to keep the background brief. My friend Darla is a good girl. She never plays hooky. She always volunteers for the crappy jobs, does what she’s told and never rocks the boat. Behind the cheerful smiles, her close friends know she has had regular periods of depression and self-loathing for years. “I’m fat. I’m unloved. I don’t deserve anything good. I’m single and childless and will die alone.” That kind of thing.
What makes me concerned right now stems from an incident last weekend. We were throwing a fortieth birthday party for another friend, Irene. And Darla was fine and cheerful until she went to get ready for the evening and found the dress she wanted to wear was too tight. This seemed to trigger a meltdown. She said she felt terrible because she’s been working so hard to lose weight and is failing. She felt old, fat and ugly. A few times, while crying, she said, “This isn’t about me. This is about Irene. I should just get ready and go.”
She did find something that fit her and we went out. She didn’t eat or drink anything, didn’t dance and didn’t smile. Mostly she sulked which sounds insensitive but I’m not sure how else to describe it. I’m not sure whether she was looking for attention or was genuinely unable to fake happiness for Irene’s sake.
Since then, I’ve checked up on her via email a few times. “Feeling better? Maybe you should take a mental health day.” Her response has been, “I’m not happy. I’m not sad. I’m not anything.”
This response is new. I don’t believe her of course. It’s pretty clear that she’s profoundly sad. She is completely unwilling to consider any suggestions or advice and I’ve therefore stopped offering them. I’ve told her that I think she may actually be clinically depressed. She insists that therapy will not work for her.
After all this preamble, here’s my question. Having reached a brick wall with Darla, should I try talking to her family about my concerns? Or is that crossing the line and I should just mind my own business?
Depression sucks
Dear Yes, It Does,
I think you should let her know, gently, once more that you’re worried about her, and while she’s said she doesn’t think therapy will work for her, you wouldn’t feel right about not suggesting it — she doesn’t seem happy, and you don’t want that for her.
If it doesn’t do any good, which it probably won’t, then you have to assess whether you think she’s a danger to herself or others — not that she’s homicidal, but if she has children you don’t think she’s in a place to take care of, something like that. You don’t specify what her family situation is, so I don’t know whom you’d contact, but it sounds like it’d be her parents, and…I wouldn’t, at this juncture, unless you’re sincerely afraid she’s going to harm herself or someone else.
I don’t disagree that Darla could probably benefit from therapy and a short course of antidepressants, but profoundly sad or not, she’s functioning, and if you’re contemplating going over her head to get someone else to intercede with her mental health? I think your concerns have to be more serious in the short term. It’s frustrating, but Darla’s mental wellness is Darla’s responsibility; she’s an adult, and you can offer help, but you can’t make her take it, I’m afraid.
Tags: friendships the fam
To Ghosts
I am 33 years old and lost my mother a little over a year ago. And I can tell you, I’m nowhere near done grieving. Mainly because, while I do have the fond memories everyone said would one day be a comfort, I also remember all those times *I* could have tried harder, been available, called more often, etc. etc. etc.
I live in PA and she lived in GA. She was a housewife and I have a career. I didn’t think we had anything in common to talk about, I honestly didn’t think I had the time to help her when our grandmother was sick, I didn’t take more of an interest when she complained about hip pain that turned out to be the tumor that eventually killed her. I simply couldn’t be bothered. I had my own life, after all. So along with all the great memories of everything she always did for me, I have the guilt of not repaying her in all the little ways that would have been so easy.
We didn’t have a funeral for my mom, either. She donated her body to science and we had a gathering for friends and family. I might as well have been asleep for what I remember of that day. What did help my sister and I, and what really helped my father who watched her waste away, was going through all of the stuff a person collects in her lifetime. I would suggest, strongly as someone who has been there, taking the time, making whatever sacrifice you need to, and going through your grandmother’s stuff with your mom. It might be difficult, but so is raising children.
Both my sister and I have a bottle of my mother’s lotion. Good old Keri. A smell I will always associate with her. We’ll never use it, and neither of us really has the room for it or the other day to day items we took. But it was important for my Dad to see his wife’s belognings weren’t so much trash, no matter how inconsequential. And it was important for my sister and I, as well. I’m with Sars, be patient, and please try to be there for her. I promise you, you’ll regret it one day if you don’t.
Ghosts,
My father was behaving in a similar manner after his mother died some years ago. He found it near impossible to deal with the belongings issue – he wouldn’t throw or give anything away, but couldn’t bear to have any of it in the house or he’d bawl when he saw it. We had a buyer for the house and needed to vacate in a hurry.
What my sister and I wound up doing was boxing and labeling the obvious non-trash stuff (like you would in a regular move) and relocating everything to a storage facility. After a few months, he was ready to help us go through everything and decide what had to go, and who was going to get what based on grandma’s wishes.
Like your grandma, mine also did not want a funeral. To help give my dad and his siblings some closure, we explained to the family that he was struggling and invited everyone to get-together at the house with lots of food. Everybody shared their stories and yes, there were tears, but it helped him tremendously.
Ghosts,
I’m so with Sars on this one, six weeks is nothing – that was her MOM. I grieved for my DOG for 9 months, my mother actively grieved for her parents for nearly a year – six weeks is barely time to be out of shock, let alone done with the grief process.
Just for the record, I don’t think a funeral would have your mom all chipper and planning for the future, either – I think you’re looking to “fix” something which isn’t actually broken, ie your mother’s very natural pain and shock at losing her own mother.
Look online for Elizabeth Kubler-Ross’s stuff on how the grief cycle works in humans – and please, cut her a break.
Confused,
You would be doing a huge favor to your friend to reach out to him with an email, or better yet a letter. When someone commits a crime, it’s very easy for the world to suddenly see that person as The Crime, forgetting all they knew about The Person. To know that somewhere in the world, someone is thinking of him not solely with revulsion but as “a great guy who taught them a lot about being a compassionate person” would be a ray of light in his self-imposed isolation. Yes, his crime was despicable, but as a human being he’s worthy of receiving the compassion you clearly feel for the pain he’s in, however he got there. I agree with Sars about not inviting him into your family’s life at the moment, but hearing from you and knowing that you’re worried for him would mean a lot. And I think you will feel really good when you do it — it would lift the burden you’re feeling now.
Depressed,
One way to be a good friend to Darla is to take her out. Don’t ask if she wants to go do something (because she doesn’t) — just tell her that you’re going for a walk in the park and would like for her to join you. Or that you’re taking her to the movies, or for a pedicure. You know, as long as it’s a specific activity that helps her get out and active should be helpful. For me, the hardest part of depression is the complete and utter apathy, and when I’m going through a tough period, having people help me get moving again really helps. Good luck, and good on you for being a good friend to her!
For Depression Sucks,
I’ve been Darla, and I’ve been the friend on the sideline watching someone in pain and powerless to stop it.
There is light at the end of the tunnel, I guarantee. When I reached rock bottom, I had maxed out on the dosage of my particular anti-depressant, weighed in at 242 lbs at 5 foot 2, and was dateless for 7 (SEVEN!) years. It took several years of medication, talk therapy and personal drive to get better. I’ve lost 114 lbs, been med free for 4 years, and am happily living with my gentleman friend.
When I was very sick, I had a very good friend on my side She would talk about what I thought about therapy, rather than suggesting I go. And she would share her own experiences with talk therapy and meds etc, increasing the acceptability in my eyes. I am continuously amazed at her compassion and understanding through all of this, as it couldn’t have been easy to be around me.
As an aside, when I got better, she was no longer interested in maintaining the friendship… And in fact, when I started dating, she started attacking my weight loss strategy, my therapist’s methods, my decision to get off meds, my dates, et cetera. A foul weather friend, I guess. End of aside.
I am still grateful for her support during the darkest period of my life. While I was unwell, she was very respectful of boundaries. If she had gone to my family with a “what do we do about Vicky Lee?” I would have shut her out, shut them out, felt betrayed and more alone than before. I agree that unless she’s a danger to herself, or others, compassion is all you can offer.
Stick to your strengths when it comes to support, though. Me? I don’t do handholding and hugging well. Awkward. What I offer is distraction, laughs, and a break from the feedback loop that depression locks one in. I listen and I never offer advice unless asked directly.
Sars is totally on the money… Darla is ultimately responsble for herself and when/if she’s ready to get better, she will start taking those steps.
I was in a similar situation as Miranda…Daddy couldn’t bear to see Mama’s things in the house, and was too brokenhearted to deal with it all. So one afternoon in that first week after she died, my sisters & I gathered together & shared some of Dad’s homemade wine & went to it. We cleared her room & changed all the bedding & curtains & rearranged the furniture, and it really seemed to help my dad. And, as it is (and I hope it always will be) with my beloved twisted sisters, we ended up laughing a lot & getting silly & it was a catharsis for us too. I thank the stars for my sisters, they’re the best!
I would really recommend some sort of memorial service, even if it’s just a bunch of folks on the patio, remembering your grandma’s life & swapping stories about her. I was stunned at some of the wonderful things folks said about Dad when he passed. (He was a big gruff bear of a guy, but so kind-hearted in his secret heart and I never even knew he did charity work & helped all the little oldies in my town with repairs & yardwork & stuff…sheesh, now I’ve got tears in my eyes…)
I never wanted a funeral for myself until I felt the letting-go process at Mama’s funeral, step by step by step. Memorial services aren’t really for the deceased, they’re for the loved ones left behind. Your mom didn’t get any of that. She needs to be with those who feel & understand her loss, who also feel that grief.
My sympathies for your loss.
Ghosts,
My dad died when I was 30, and it was literally MONTHS before I could even cry for him and for what I’d lost, let alone start to move on. It’s been 16 years, and I still miss him. I’m getting misty just typing this.
Please be kind to your mom, you’ll be glad you did, if for no other reason than Karma.
Confused,
I agree with Jenno and Sars; letting your friend know that you are concerned about him and have positive memories of him would be a good thing.
As time goes by, you might feel differently about letting him back into your life. Before letting him associate with your children, it would probably be a good idea to learn the dispassionate facts of the case. Was his “child porn” a striptease video that a 16-year-old made of herself and put up on the internet herself? In that case, I’d feel safe inviting him into my home. On the other hand, if it was a series of graphic pictures of an adult assaulting a 6-year-old, I might want to never be within a hundred yards of him ever again.
Ghosts,
If you had said that after six YEARS your mother was actively and painfully grieving, I’d be somewhat sympathetic. It’s been almost eight years since my Dad died, and it’s still painful, but I am able to go for weeks at a time without actively grieving.
But six WEEKS? She’s lost her mother, she’s lonely, she’s left to deal with the burden of cleaning out her mother’s house by herself, her family doesn’t seem to care, and you think YOU’RE exasperated? Sheesh.
I agree that a memorial service could be soothing, but it’s not going to make your Mom stop grieving. Read Joan Didion’s “The Year of Magical Thinking” to gain a better understanding of the grief process. Help your Mom pack up her own mother’s things. Show a little sympathy, maybe set up a regular lunch date with her.
It might be good for both of you to attend a few meetings of an “adult child” bereavement group, so you can both get a handle on what “normal” is like when you’ve lost a parent. With luck, your Mom will find it therapeutic as well.
Ghosts,
My mom died 10 years ago, and I am still grieving for her. The truth is there is no perfect way to go through something like this. There will always be those moments when you just NEED your mom and you feel so empty that she’s not there.
I do think it would be a good idea for your family to have some sort of ritual for your grandma, where you and your dad and sister and mom all did something together to say goodbye to her. Something as simple as having a meal together with grandma’s recipes or releasing balloons or planting a tree or something. While your grandma may have not wanted a funeral, these rituals are really more for those left behind, then for those that have gone.
But be patient, like Sars said, this is not a flesh wound. It’s not something she’s just going to get over because the funeral’s over, this is something that is going to redefine her definition of normal, and that takes time.
Ghost,
My father died after a long illness nine years ago on Fathers Day. He never wanted a funeral or a casket either. So we had Neptune Society cremate him and we had a party/memorial service in the backyard. We invited all of his lifelong friends (they all came) and my brother’s priest spoke a few words. Then my brother spoke and a few other friends. The whole service was about 15 minutes long but it was enough to feel that we had properly said good-bye to him. Grieving can go on for quite some time. Everybody’s sorta prepared for the first year after a death, all those first holidays after a loved one has died. What they don’t tell you is that the second year is worse in a lot of ways because you’re not prepared for it. Sars is right, your mom needs more time. And I have a sneaking suspicion that you do too.
“I’m trying to be sympathetic, but I’m getting exasperated at the whole affair.”
Wow, really? Only six weeks after losing a parent? Harsh!
My grandmother died seven years ago, my father three, and my grandfather six months ago, and I still think about them fairly frequently and am known to tear up unexpectedly when I come across something (a perfume, a song, etc.) that reminds me strongly of one of them. My mom’s the same way. Yes, she got a little clingy after grandpa died, but considering she’d lost both parents and her husband in a span of six years, I understood it and tried to be as patient as possible. It really helped her through the grieving process to have someone who loves her around.
None of them wanted a funeral, so instead we held memorial masses at a church my mother liked. I am NOT a religious person at all (pretty ANTI-organized religion, actually), but grandma was a person of faith, and for my mom and other family members the service was a comfort. If your mother is a religious person and you think she would draw comfort from something like a mass (or whatever the equivalent would be for her specific faith) then that might be something to consider, even if it’s not something that would be helpful to you.
Another suggestion is maybe trying to do things with your mom that would celebrate the happy memories you shared with your grandmother. A few days after grandpa passed, my whole family went out for a big pancake breakfast, because pancakes were his favorite thing in the world. And while it was sad thinking about how much we missed him and how much he would have enjoyed that breakfast, it was still helpful because we were together and enjoying each other’s company and it was a little way to honor him by enjoying the things he loved.
Just… cut her a little slack, is all. Focus less on what would make it easier for YOU to deal with mom and more on what would make it easier for MOM to deal with her grief, even if it’s a bit of an inconvenience for you and your sister.
Ghosts, I still see my family members in my dreams at night; I’m over 50, and it’s been years. My sympathy for your loss, but while she was your Grandma, this was her mother. I’m not saying everyone’s the same, but your Mom hasn’t really begun to grieve yet, she’s still stunned. Be patient, and let her talk about her Mom with you and your sister. And if at all possible, help her go through her Mom’s things! What, her husband “doesn’t really spend much time with her,” and … you and your sister are really busy? So she has to go through everything herself, by herself? That’s a really unhappy burden for someone to deal with, and alone is not a good way to do it.
Ghosts, my father died 12 years ago, on Father’s Day (something we are relatively sure he did on purpose) and I am still not over it. Six weeks? An eye blink.
My father said he didn’t want a funeral or memorial or wake because everyone was always so sad. But the closure these events bring is so important for learning to handle the grief. After two weeks of watching me struggle to get through each day, my friends did a wonderful thing. They held a wake for my Dad. Specifically to help me. And it helped more than I could have imagined it would. So much so, that afterwards I organized a memorial for the rest of the family. And everyone still talks to this day how important it was and how much they appreciated being able to be around people who were grieving like they were.
The morning of the Memorial I spoke out loud to my Dad, as I still do on occaision. “Sorry, Dad. But you’re gone now and this is more for us than for you anyway.” I think he understood.
Have a wake. Have a memorial. Have a gathering of some kind. It will help your mother more than you can possibly imagine. And it may help you too.
Ghosts,
Consider the possibility that your mother offering your grandmother’s stuff to you is not at all about your mother wanting you to have things. She might just have an inability to throw away something her mother owned, as if her mother’s life’s meaning is tied up in everything she ever owned. She might feel like putting her mother’s stuff in the trash is equivalent to putting her mother’s life in the trash.
Now for the cautionary tale: When my grandparents passed away, my father’s siblings divided things they wanted, and everything that nobody wanted ended up in my parents’ basement. Since he couldn’t bear to just throw away stuff that his parents had owned, that stuff has been in the basement, collecting dust and harboring rodents and insects for the last 25 years. Nobody wanted it then, they sure as heck aren’t going to want it now.
Why the cautionary tale? Just because you accept an item does not obligate you to retain custody of the item for the remainder of your natural life or until the item disappears into thin air. Because it is no skin off of your nose to put a bottle of lotion in your pocket, and then as you walk in your own house, putting it in the trash. Stopping by Goodwill for items that can be re-used is an option. If you’re worried about her asking about particular items, put them in a box, and keep them for 6 months. After that, the likelihood your mother will ask about it is slim. She’ll feel good about finding a “home” for the item, and you will never have to see it again, unlike me, who seems to be destined to sort through both her parents’ and grandparents’ stuff when her parents pass away, hopefully at some point in the very distant future. I’m hoping I go first, actually, because I’m dreading it that much.
Of course, anything that is of value, or anything that someone does/may want has a whole other set of circumstances. That said, those items are usually few and far between.
I’m glad I read through the comments today. My father in law recently passed away (it will be 7 weeks ago this Saturday) after several years of fighting cancer. Even though I am greatly saddened by his death, I cannot possibly know how painful it has been for my husband. He was very close to his father and I know he misses him dearly. At times I forget how hard it must be for him and I occasionally fall short in the support department. Reading what people have written here has reminded me to be more understanding. And that it’s important for me to be the soft place where it’s safe for him to fall and grieve.
I agree with what Amy says: Ghosts, your mom is trying to find homes for these random, useless things because throwing them away seems weird and wrong to her, and it would probably help her out a lot if you and your sister (and your dad, when he has the time) could take over some of the going-through-stuff process. Not only will it take some of the burden off your mom, but you can also probably throw out some of the really-truly-trash stuff, and donate the still-usable-but-unwanted stuff to some good cause, more easily when she’s not as directly involved — if she sees it, she’s going to worry about it, but if you guys take care of it independently, it may not even occur to her that there was a bottle of lotion (or a stack of old Reader’s Digests, or a clock radio, or whatever) to deal with at all.
And to Depression Sucks, I also want to second what someone else said: Jake’s idea of not inviting Darla out, but just taking her out. I go through episodes of depression, and the biggest thing I can do by myself to dig out is to get back into a normal routine — waking up at a reasonable hour; getting out of the house; doing things that I normally would find fun, even if I’m in a state where nothing seems like fun. It sounds too simple, but (at least with the relatively mild depression that I’ve experienced) it really does seem to work — it’s like a reminder to my brain that, oh yeah, actually, I can cope with leaving the house, and soon I’m going “Oh, right, ‘fun’, I remember ‘fun’.”
Ghosts,
Re: the lotions and such… My grandma passed away eight months ago and I helped my Mom with cleaning out the house for several weeks. The precious things my grandma left – jewelry, photos, silk scarves and such, that was easy to sort, to choose what to keep and what to give to charity.
It’s the lotions, the dishsoap, the eight half-used tubes of toothpaste that bring you to the brink. Because to throw it away feels wasteful, wrong, inconsiderate… etc – I mean, if my grandma saw us tossing perfectly good toothpaste in the trash she would have had a fit. But it’s also a half-used tube of toothpaste.
After days and days of filling garbage bags with perfectly-good-but-way-too-much stuff, you start to think ‘yes, I should save this half-bottle of javex and bring it home. Maybe my sister needs some javex.’
I think aside from her perfectly legitimate grief, this overwhelming sense of throwing away good stuff may be behind your Mom’s wish to give you lotions. My advice is take some of it, say thank you and then discretely throw it away.
And if you can, do take the time to help your mom clear out your grandma’s place – the company alone will make it go faster and be less upsetting.
Ghosts –
Does your family talk about your grandmother? I mean, not in hushed tones where one must always weep. I mean dealing with the fact that she’s on your minds, and you’re sad, and it might help to just SAY what you’re thinking.
If not… then to your mom, basically, it seems like she vanished from the earth. Not only is she dead, she never existed.
For healing — not for closure, because there isn’t really ever “closure” when you lose someone you love — I’d advise something like the pancake dinner suggested above. Basically, I would suggest a wake. It doesn’t have to be all about drinking (although that’s one way to loosen up and laugh and cry at the same time). Something your mom likes doing. If it is connected to your grandmother, fine, but your grandmother is not the one in pain here. Focus on what would make your mom happy. (Moving home, however, is too much.) Spa day? Weekend getaway to Vegas (or anywhere where she isn’t sitting at home staring at her mom’s thing)? Buy her a picture for her wall and say it is there to bring new joy into her life? Something like that, that communicates you love her.
Depression sucks:
If she doesn’t want to go into therapy, try to get her to at least see her regular doctor. Tell her to tell the doctor to check for a thyroid condition, because she is lethargic and has little energy. Not that I necessarily think she HAS a thyroid condition, but if her GP is any good, s/he will say, “Hmmmm…” and possibly suggest anti-depressants or bring a bigger gun to the hunting party of “see a therapist”.
…or maybe she has a thyroid condition. You never know.
Ghosts,
I am sorry for your loss. I agree with everyone who has said that six weeks is a drop in the bucket of the process of grieving for a parent, and that’s true funeral or no funeral.
But, re: non-traditional funerals. My grandfather died after a painful few months struggling with an aggressive cancer, and also requested that a funeral not be held for him. About nine months after he died, however, his family held a thank you dinner for all the people who had visited and cared for him during his final illness- probably just about everyone who would have come to a funeral was there. It was a joyful opportunity for people who knew and loved my grandfather to come together and remember and miss him, without being “funereal”- and by framing it as something other than a memorial, no one felt like it was something my grandfather wouldn’t have approved of.
That said, my mother’s mourning for her father had not ended when this event happened, and did not end with this event.
Ghosts – I read once someone describing the difference between losing a grandparent and a parent as the former is very, very sad, but later changes the foundations of your world – and you can’t understand that until you’ve had the foundations of your world shaken. I’m still blessed enough to have both my parents, but I can sympathize with both your position and your mother’s.
One idea to help memorialize her and to help with the what to do with this stuff issue would be to have volunteer day in her honor – maybe at a nursing home or senior center in her area. Gather your grandmother and mother’s friends, bring all kinds of food and games and kids and spend time with people her age who may be lonely or don’t get to celebrations. Take 15 minutes to offer a toast and share memories of her with the group – and invite others to do so as well. Make it a celebration of her life, not a “funeral.” Other ideas are planting flowers and trees in a park – the local park council would welcome it and might even put up a sign naming the garden after your grandmother – or going someplace that was special to her. At whatever event you have, bring the things your mother doesn’t want to throw away but nobody wants and offer it up to anyone who wants it, with your mother’s understanding that you will quietly dispose of what isn’t taken. And get your sister involved in this too.
Confused,
I think your instincts are right, and you should reach out to your friend. Even if he’s guilty of doing a heinous thing, that doesn’t change the fact that he is a human being, one who was a good friend to you, and he is surely feeling desperately alone and isolated right now. Any kind words you can offer him would be most welcome, I’m sure. We all need to remember to be more kind to one another, despite all of our failings and screw-ups. I’m not trying to minimize what he may have done, just saying that everyone deserves a little compassion.
Ghosts,
Ditto on all the above. When my neighbor’s son died, she just shut the door to his room and left it exactly as it was, because she could not bear to get rid of *any* his things. This went on for many, many years; that room was like a shrine. I am not sure if it ever got cleaned out before she fell into ill health and had to move to a nursing home.
All the little stuff becomes a huge deal because it is like throwing her mom in the trash. I’ve had that feeling just from friends moving away; can’t imagine saying goodbye to my parents! She is probably desperate to feel like others treasure Mom too, even though you personally don’t need a bottle of lotion to remember her fondly.
I totally second Kathryn’s notion to have an event that people would associate with your Grandma, without the framework of an official memorial. There has to be something that people connect with her: “Please come to a Family Fashion Show in honor of our favorite maven, Mrs. Jane Smith.”
You and/or your sister having some lunch every week at grandma’s favorite restaurant, and making the time just about your Mom and her mother, probably would help a lot too.
Another non-funeral: I used to regularly visit a nursing hone, and one man and I got very close in the year before he died, so much so that he even signed out and came to events at my church. I was not able to attend his funeral though, which upset me, but my pastor had a great solution: We held our own “funeral” with the people in my church that knew him. As the pastor explained, funerals are about saying a “good goodbye” and the time was exactly that. It really boiled down to gathering in the pastor’s office to share memories, a prayer and sort of wish our friend well along his way. That was enough, though. The time with others who missed him really helped.
Depression–
Darla should be tested for PCOS, if she hasn’t been already. Polycystic Ovarian Syndrome is a metabolic disorder that affects roughly 10 percent of American women, but is very frequently misdiagnosed. The most common symptom is the inability to lose weight. But because it is co-associated with a hormone imbalance, it usually comes with a side-helping of depression, hair loss, weird hair growth, funky periods, high blood pressure, etc. It’s very easily treated once it’s diagnosed, though. People have amazing, remarkable success with medication.
Depressed,
I agree with Jake that you should just take Darla out whether she wants to or not.
The other thing I have done in similar situations, though it requires you to be quite close, is almost a tough love approach. I’ve told them that i can see what is happening, and that I think they are depressed, and if they don’t make an appointment to see a doctor – even a GP – in the next two weeks, I will make one for them, pick them up from their house and drive them to it.
It has been pretty effective in at least letting people know that thier problems are not being ignored by you, and is a starting point for getting them in contact with the help (therapy, meds, whatever) they need.
Confused,
I agree with all of the above. Some food for thought–?
Once I spent some time discussing pedophilia with a clergyman who had done his homework on the subject. A thing he said struck me as true, based on my experience of a few years working with children and with other adults working with children. He said that in many cases, pedophiles are genuinely gifted and honestly excellent at interacting with kids–they can relate to them, empathize with their concerns, and communicate at their level, teach without condescending, play without self-consciousness, listen without impatience–all the things good teachers, good scout leaders, good mentors do, and often for the same reasons: they understand and care about kids. Their illness/ perversion/ disorder/ crime/ sin/ (whatever you prefer to label it) is not universally expressed in every aspect of their relationships with ALL children…in the case of your friend, for instance, there is no insinuation he ever touched a kid.
I am NOT saying child pornography is in any way excusable, and if I had children I couldn’t allow him near them either…but I am saying that I believe good and evil can exist in the same person (and/or illness and health if that’s your preference), and apparently, very close together in focus. The temptation is to suddenly consider him as a completely different, horrible person, whose liking for and skill with children must all be tainted, false, caused by this terrible secret…but if my clergyman’s readings are correct, our best instincts and our worst can be far more closely intertwined than we’re comfortable with.
I don’t think I’ve known any pedophiles for certain, but I used to work around a teacher who used to date some of his female students as soon as they were legally of age and no longer his students…just soon enough that it felt creepy to many of us. At one point a teen girl accused him of an inappropriate touch, but she withdrew the accusation and later, in her twenties, dated him for quite some time…(ew). BUT: he was, undeniably, absolutely great with kids. Little kids especially, boys and girls both, individually or en masse, a very involved, conscientious, hardworking teacher, and no rumors of anything other than the above. Also a father himself. I wouldn’t let a kid of mine within a city block of him, but I can’t deny his genuine rapport with or enthusiasm for children, and he did them great good.
I don’t know if it helps you any to consider your friend as having the same kind of duality, both good and evil in the same package, but you said he taught you about compassion, and clearly you have it for him despite your horror and shock. I don’t think you should feel bad about wanting to reach out to him, or about wanting to keep your contact limited. It’s hard to feel both ways, but that doesn’t mean they’re not both right.
Sorry this was so long. Hope it helps at all.
Wow. The comments for this post made me cry. I think Jenn is right. I’ve lost both my grandfathers and my father as well as a couple of very close friends. As difficult as any loss is, I don’t think there’s anything quite like that of losing an immediate family member. When my dad died, it was like grief I never knew I had in me spilled to the surface. It is a total and utter shaking of your foundations, of the core of who you are. Because all of a sudden, you no longer have that person whose job it was to love you unconditionally, to kiss you when you fell, to call you, “my baby.”
That was four years ago. I still miss him every damn day. Six weeks is really nothing.
P.S. I do think, just as a general point, that it is a mistake for people to choose whether to have funerals/not have/etc before they pass away. Because ultimately, funerals are for the living. My father was an atheist, but he had a religious Hindu funeral service. Why? Because it’s what my mom wanted. And ultimately, whatever had happened to my dad, whether he was dust, or in heaven, or reincarnated, was moot at that point. The main issue was what would give comfort to my mom.
Confused,
Everyone’s advice seems to be spot-on right now. And your response to the situation is very telling about the kind of person and friend you are.
The only other thing I would like to offer in addition to the stellar advice that’s already been posted is, before you contact him, is to maybe do a little research on porn addiction. This might be helpful in the way you respond. Porn addiction, especially child porn, is so insidious and harmful and it’s a powerful master. I imagine that your friend probably has had major self-loathing problems for a long time – living two lives, trapped in this sick addiction that he can’t bring himself to stop and probably hating himself every time he entertained his sickness.
I’m not at all saying his actions weren’t reprehensible – they were. But, he can heal with a lot of intensive help and work. Perhaps in your letter you can encourage him to do that (although, the Court may have already ordered counseling).
I don’t know, if you want to be supportive and thoughtful, I would add a tagline of “but don’t contact me please”. He will probably disregard all the positives and focus on that, and what he will read is “you’re still a scumbag though and stay away from my family ya perv”. I agree you need to have boundaries, just take that part with a gentle hand.
Finally, you mentioned having a family. I think you might have a talk with your partner before you reach out to this man; because the other decision maker and protector of your family (I’m assuming there is one; there might not be) may not be cool with you doing any of this at all.
I hope I’ve been helpful, and my heart goes out to you – you seem to have been blessed with a compassionate spirit. That rules.
Ghosts,
My mother died unexpectedly just 3 weeks ago (in a car accident). Obviously my siblings and I are all still adjusting to a world where she is no longer at the other end of the telephone every Sunday afternoon. Given that we are scattered all over the country, it hasn’t been easy sorting things out. We arranged things, though, to all spend a week together at her house, going through from top to bottom, to sort out heirlooms vs. pure trash vs. things to sell at an estate auction. We rented a storage pod for 6 months for anything we’re undecided about, on the premise that it will give us some time to come back to the decision later with objectivity. I would definitely recommend this option if your mom is having trouble bringing herself to get rid of things.
Another thing that I would recommend is for you and your sister to take a few days off to help your mother. No, you don’t have to move back in, but take some time out of your schedules and help her get things done. If she’s having trouble letting go of little things, one of you take her out for coffee while the other one blitzes through to clean out the used toiletries etc. Stuff like the alarm clock, the brand-new package of lightbulbs under the kitchen sink, the unopened bars of soap? Donate it to Goodwill in your grandmother’s name, or take it to the local homeless mission or nursing home. Take her books and magazines to the library for their book sale table. Unopened cans of food can go to the local food pantry. That way your mom can feel that it’s not just being wasted.
And take some time, even if it’s only a few hours, to talk about your grandmother. Sit around the living room and go through photo albums, hold a prayer service at her church, or arrange to meet some friends and relatives for dinner and tell them to come armed with their favorite story about her. Basically, remind your mom that she’s not alone and give her something to think about that isn’t depressing and lonely. I can tell you from very recent and painful experience that laughing until you cry until you laugh is quite cathartic.
Ghosts – I’m so sorry for your loss, please accept my condolences.
Everyone is right, six weeks really is a very short space of time after a beloved parent’s death. When my father died, a workman working at a neighbour’s offered his condolences, and said something I found consoling – I’ve passed it on to other people in similar circumstances, who also found it consoling, and perhaps it might help your mother. He said his father had died when he was nine, and what he’d found was that the pain might never go away, but that eventually you get to a point where you don’t have to think about it all the time. That may seem like no comfort at all, but it really was to me. Thinking about my father’s death still is sad and painful (the anniversary was only two weeks ago, and typing this now is making me cry), but it is no longer the *only* thought that consumes my mind, as it was for weeks and weeks after he died. Your mother may be unable to think of anything other than her mother’s death right now, but give her time and love, that’s what she needs.
Everyone else – thank you for sharing your thoughts and memories of your parents.
Ghosts,
My father is 70 years old, and his father died 54 years ago, as we were discussing the other day. I assure that, funeral or no funeral, there is no closure. My father has had a happy and wonderful life, but the loss of his dad (especially so early) is like a birthmark. It doesn’t pain him all the time, but it is part of him permanently. I think he has missed his dad chronically, for all those 54 years. Not like “sitting around moping” kind of missed, but…missed, you know?
What I’m trying to say is that in addition to the advice people are giving you along the lines of “give your mom a break; it’s been six weeks,” which I agree with, I think you have to prepare for the fact that this is always going to be with your mom. Your mom is never going to feel exactly the same way about everything that she did when her mother was alive. I don’t think you should look at it in terms of “when will the grieving process be over” (and six weeks, I agree, is not close anyway), but more like, “What will a happy life for my mom after the loss of her mom look like, and how can I help her get there?”
Help her go through the stuff. It’s a terrible job. You don’t take the alarm clock because you want it; you take the alarm clock because your mother is your mother, as her mother was her mother.
“We can’t fill the gap; we have our own lives.” You do, I agree. But part of your life is that your mother needs you, the same way I suspect you needed her for quite a few years. I wouldn’t suggest you move home, but I would suggest trying to see helping your mother as part of your life, not something that’s interrupting your life.
I do think, just as a general point, that it is a mistake for people to choose whether to have funerals/not have/etc before they pass away. Because ultimately, funerals are for the living. –arduous
This is exactly what I wanted to say. I think that the sentiment is usually intended to spare the grieving the pain and expense of a funeral, but such services can help to offer closure to those left behind. Wherever our loved ones are when they pass, I’m certain they understand if we don’t abide by their earthly wishes.
To “Ghosts…”: First, I am sorry to hear of the loss of your Grandmother. What is an inconvenience for you is a life-changing event for your Mom, please try to keep that in mind, and it takes a lot longer than six weeks to recover, if one ever recovers from the loss of a parent. Hell, it takes about six weeks for a broken *bone* to heal, and that’s under the best circumstances, so please give your Mom some understanding here.
I have a suggestion: my own Dad passed away last year and we didn’t have a funeral because he didn’t want one and also he wanted to be cremated and was not a fan of organized religion of any kind so did not want any kind of a religious service.
What we did was plant a tree on my sister’s property (my Dad loved nature) and put two benches by it and that’s where most of his ashes are (there is also a carved stone with his name & birth/death dates, which I guess is a gravestone but it is a small one and not stuck in the ground…). The rest of his ashes were taken to different parts of the world and scattered, at places he had visited and loved, as he enjoyed traveling too.
On his birthday this year (months after his death) friends and family got together and spent a few moments by the tree, a couple of people said a few words, my Mom thanked everyone for coming and then we had food and drink in celebration of his life. Also at the hall where we had the celebration we had a table with pictures and photo albums.
It was non-traditional, a bit sad but not terribly so, something my Dad himself would have approved of and helped with closure for those who needed that. Perhaps your family could come up with a way of saying goodbye or even celebrating your Grandmother’s life, that would be helpful for your Mom and that works for, and is appropriate for, all concerned.
Ghosts –I am so sorry for your loss. I lost my grandmother when I was 16 and I still miss her, twenty years later here.
I just lost my mom suddenly to leukemia last October. And I can’t say enough how helpful the comments have been here about grieving. I feel like a mess all the time and feel like people must feel about me the way Ghosts sometimes feels about her mom. And I can understand that when it’s not your loss, it’s sometimes hard to remember that the grieving person is really going through something difficult. Losing my mom –I don’t even want to be here anymore in a world where my mom doesn’t exist. It’s so hard, every day.
Losing my mom (followed by a series of really terrible and unexpected events) launched me into clinical depression.
Which is why this column was a huge double-hitter for me.
My best friends watched me withdraw and close off until I was pretty damn suicidal. My best friend finally got me to admit it and said that unless I got some professional help, he would have to contact my family. So while I don’t think contacting Darla’s family without her knowledge is a good idea, I think it’s worth watching her for any suicidal tendencies and if you’re close enough as friends, letting her know that you’re so concerned, you don’t know if you should contact her family.
I share a lot of her problems (overweight, unmarried, childless–and miserable about all three).
I was adamant about not wanting therapy and was fairly forced into it by my best friend, for which I owe him a huge debt.
My mom’s death and the other losses I had last year and this year, triggered more Stuff than I could process with the tools and resources I normally have to get through life as a pretty functional and cheerful person.
You’re a good friend to Darla–and while I won’t assume we have the same needs, I can’t say enough how much I would guess she needs the support of her good friends like you right now. (Like someone else suggested, just asking her to do things with you. Going over to her house with a movie and maybe making her dinner or bringing dinner with you.) Even if–especially if–she’s withdrawing and not wanting to do things. I really had to be pushed into seeing people and those days were the light that led me out of the darkest part of the tunnel.
Good luck to you. And good luck to all the people who’ve written her about their own grieving process.
@Linda,
“My father has had a happy and wonderful life, but the loss of his dad (especially so early) is like a birthmark. It doesn’t pain him all the time, but it is part of him permanently.”
This? Was beautifully written, and sums up my experience exactly.
Thank you.
Depression sucks:
Having been through depression myself, I can say that the comment that I agree with most is the one about getting Darla to go out and do things with you. Of course she doesn’t want to, but as the previous poster said, it’s much easier if you tell her you’re going to get a pedicure, or to a movie, or out for coffee, and bring her along. There’s an end in sight for her so it’s easier for her to motivate, and she may find that being out in the world makes her feel a tiny bit better.
Dear Ghosts,
My mother passed away 12.5 years ago. She was very specific that she d
didn’t want a funeral.
BACKGROUND:
Mom’s express wishes were that we invite all her friends & coworkers from her years teaching and in a chorus to … well, it’s actually an ok restaurant, but kind of dive-y… have pitchers of beer and carafes of cheap wine, play Judy Garland and the Andrews Sisters, and remember her well, within a week after she died. Which we did. And which was great in its way –an Irish Wake without the body. But it was celebratory, and not a way for us to have closure.
She donated her body for medical research and we got the “cremains” several months later. Several years later her box was put in a cubby in a newly opened military cemetary wall (so that my dad can be there when it is his time). After she passed but before her interment (or whatever the word is for a cubby hole in a cremains wall), her mother passed away.
MESSAGE:
That is all a really long background for this: my sister & I grieved for mom at my grandmother’s memorial. And have grieved for mom at every funerial occasion since. It’s always about mom, no matter who has died. This is what happens when there is no closure for the loved ones. While I under-stood and -stand my mom’s request, it does not make it easy for the survivors to grieve.
That having been said, I’m sure that my circle of support has found me difficult to deal with over the years, because dealing with getting rid of the “stuff” of mom’s life was hard blah blah blah. So take a weekend, come and be with your mom, and help her deal with the physical objects associated with her mom. Take her out to dinner, just you guys (and your sis, or whatever), toast to her mom, ask her to tell some stories, or ask if there are questions about your grandma that you always wanted to ask, but never got to. Having your mom talk about her growing up with her mom, her own teenage years, maybe when her own grandmother passed even, will help.
Just my $.02.
jbp, I don’t think every funeral becomes about your mom because there was no funeral – I think a lot of people feel that way, even if there was a funeral for their parent who died. There was a funeral for my mother, and every funeral makes me relive that day. Heck, even when I see a funeral on tv, it makes me sad because I think about my mom. It hasn’t been that long for me (only a year), and I don’t think that it will ever “get better” in the sense of not thinking about my mom at every funeral or death. I think the getting better part is me learning to be ok with my sad feelings when I think about her death.
Ghosts,
My grandmother passed away after several difficult years – she was in poor health and had developed a “crusty” personality. Her death brought sadness and relief. Both my brother and I were away at school and as my grandmother didn’t want any sort of funeral or service, we didn’t go home. This left us all feeling disjointed and awkward in our grieving. My parents sent me flowers, but we never all got together to grieve my grandmother. It’s been over a year and while we’ve been together as a family, it’s never been a time to formally grieve. This was also the case with her husband – my grandfather. It was such a relief to no longer watch them suffer, we never dealt as a family with the loss.
I agree with what many other people have said. Find something to do to commemorate your grandmother – share stories, jokes, memories, questions. Go through photo albums and odds and ends. In the meantime, let your mom talk about what’s going on with her. You can have limits on how much time you can give each day, but we all grieve differently.
I spent years 8-28 in various stages of depression. But when I was 28 I was going through particularly difficult times. My gyno had talked to me about therapy a couple of times, but I poo pooed (I really had no normal life to compare with depression so had no idea what I was going through/missing). But at one point my best friend sat me down and said, “I love you. And I will always be here to listen to you. But I’m scared for you and I’d never forgive myself if I didn’t say anything and something were to happen to you. Please, you need to see a therapist.” It woke me up. I asked my gyno for that theraphist’s name. And I can never thank my friend enough. It truly transformed my life. If you can do something similar for Darla, you’ll be a hero.
Re: Confused. I noticed that you say your friend was arrested, but you do not mention whether he was convicted (or admitted that he had possessed the images). Having some professional experience with these offenses, I can tell you that even if you are not convicted or even innocent, you frequently lose everything: your job, your friends, your family. Even if he was convicted, without knowing the details of the offense, it would be hard to say that your initial impression of him was wrong. Without getting too sidetracked, the line between legal and illegal images can be blurry, the materials may have been sent without his request, there are some really unfortunately aggressive prosecutors who pursue cases without good evidence, etc. In short, while I can understand that you do not want your children in the same room with him, I think a letter of support to a friend would be the right thing to do. Writing to say in part that you’re cutting him off based on an arrest seems unkind in light of what you know of his mental state. That may be the only part he picks up on.