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Home » The Vine

The Vine: March 28, 2003

Submitted by on March 28, 2003 – 9:33 PMNo Comment

Hi Sars,

I’m sending this to you because I’m caught in a frustrating situation. This
is going to be a long email and I apologize, but I’m hoping you can tell me
something besides, “That sucks, dude.”

My boyfriend, Allen, and I planned to get married next week. He’s joining
the military in a couple of months, and the only way for us to stay together is for us
to be married. This isn’t a problem, as we’ve been planning to get married
since before he decided to join the military. The only thing is that we have
to get married a good two years sooner than I would have liked.

Allen’s been telling me all along to do whatever I need to do for the
wedding. When I ask how we’re going to pay for it, he tells me not to worry
about it and that we can afford it. I’ve repeatedly asked him for a budget
and/or a look at the checkbook so I can see what we’ve got and what we have
to use for bills and food. He always agrees, and then “forgets” to leave me a
budget or the checkbook. Since I didn’t know how much money there was, I’ve
been unable to make plans for the wedding, other than setting a tentative
date and calling the JP. I wasn’t planning anything huge — a minister, some
beer, a cake, and refreshments — but it was still going to cost around two
thousand dollars, and Allen knew it.

So last night he tells me he’s pulling out of the military and has to pay
the back all the money they’ve paid him (for delayed enlistment) over the
past two years — about $2000. And he has to pay it back all at once. And
there’s no money in the bank other than the money I’ve been saving myself
for the past couple of months ($1200). And he’s been out of town pretty
consistently for the past couple of months and so has only worked about two
weeks this semester, and has been spending oodles of money. And somehow, his
financial aid ($5000) has disappeared. (Did I mention we’re both college
students? I’m going back to school for my master’s next semester and he’s
still an undergrad.)

We were talking about the wedding after that, and he asked me whether I’d
gotten a copy of my birth certificate yet. I told him no, and that it didn’t
matter now anyway — we can’t get married next week, or probably anytime
soon. He, unbelievably dense, asks why. Because we don’t have any money, sez
me, because we have to live off of my $1200 for the next three or four
months while your money goes to pay the Army. He says, well, we have the $36
it would take to get married. I say, is it worth it to drag my parents from
100 miles away and your parents from 110 miles away just to watch us sign a
paper? And, you know, I would like to be able to have a little fun after the
wedding — at least go out to eat or have a little party or something. And,
oh yeah, why haven’t you already thought of this when YOU’RE the one who
wanted to get married so soon, anyway? And why in God’s name did you tell me
we had enough money for the two thousand dollar wedding I was planning if
all we have is “the $36 we’ll need”?

So…yeah. I suppose there’s a chance we might just go to the JP come next weekend,
but I’m really set against that. It’s likely that, now that we’re broke and
he’s not going into the Army, we’ll wait a few more months. I’m going to
have to work two jobs next semester to be able to pay for school and most of
our living expenses, because all of his money is going back to the Army. I’m
opening my own bank account Monday, because I’m tired of him being vague
about money, and from now on if I know there are bills or things we need to
save for, I’ll pay them — all he does is tell me not to worry my pretty
head, and then spend the earmarked money on sodas and eating out. Until we
can work out a system he’ll stick to, I’m going to have to take care of
finances.

I’m just glad I hadn’t already reserved a building or called a minister or
had friends go pick up a keg. I’m glad my best friend hadn’t bought the
flower-girl dresses for her daughters yet. I’m glad the guys hadn’t rented
tuxes. Et cetera. I’m pissed off and hurt — but mostly pissed off. He knew
this was important; hell, all along it’s been more important to him than to
me. He’s the one who’s pushed me to get married for the past two years. Then
he leaves me with all the work while he jaunts off across the country and
drops “we have no money” on me a week before the wedding? Um, no. No, no,
no.

I don’t know what to do here. Should we go ahead and get married and wait to
have a ceremony until we have more money? Should we wait another year or two
like I’ve always wanted to? How do I make sure something like this doesn’t
happen again? We arranged our whole lives around his going into the Army,
and then he pulled out at the last minute — I’d like to be able to make
myself a bit more secure in future.

I’m aware that he’s acted like an asshat here. It’s extremely out of
character for him, but until he decides to tell me what’s going on — with
money, with the Army, with his life — there’s not much I can do. I know my
question is sort of unspecific, but help me out here, Sarah. I have faith in
you. This is me joining the horde of people who have asked the eternal
question — “Sars, what do I do?”

Antsy

Dear Ant,

First of all, actually, it isn’t out of character for Allen to act the way he has. You’ve described a pattern of flakiness here — changing his mind about the military, unable to take care of tasks he’s promised to do, bad with planning, can’t hold on to money. None of these things is a red flag on its own, of course, or makes him a bad person, but taken together, they do suggest a certain immaturity, and you’d do well to acknowledge that.

As far as what you should do goes, you should print out the letter and show it to him. Tell him how deeply his behavior has irritated you, in so many words. And do not marry him in a week, or in a month, or in six months. I can’t imagine why you agreed to marry him years earlier than you wanted to in the first place, but now that the universe has granted you a reprieve, use it to grow a backbone and separate your finances from his. Wait to get married when you want to. Stop letting him make the decisions for the both of you when he’s clearly unwilling to do any of the work involved. Figure out what you want and whether you can live with him flaking and take it from there.

Dear Sars,

Like so many other of your adoring fans, I could use
some advice. I’m not happy with the balance of power
in my relationship, and I think the heart of the
problem is that I have trouble handling conflict,
especially with someone I love.

From daily trivia like food or seeing friends to Big
Issues like long-term plans or the if/when/how of our
sex life, what she wants usually ends up taking
precedence. With the trivia, well, hey, it’s trivia.
I’m an accommodating guy, and enjoying each other’s
company is more important than getting my way in every
picky way. Unfortunately, that makes it harder to
press for what I want on the big stuff.

A few recent Vines have covered power dynamics — Stee’s
contribution to Dear List,

I think you may have missed Stee’s point. It’s not so much “like it or leave” as it is “you can’t change people,” and the fact that you’ve chosen to interpret it as “like it or leave” says a lot about your conflict-avoidant tendencies.

And conflict-avoidant tendencies are normal. Few of us really enjoy conflict, at least not consciously. But there’s not wanting to get into a huge fight, and then there’s anticipating a huge fight unnecessarily over every little thing — in other words, speaking up now and then with a “let’s try it this way” or an “I’d rather not, if that’s okay” or a “didn’t we just do Indian food two days ago” is probably not going to incite a relationship-ending blowout.

My suggestion is to start speaking up about the trivia; that way, you’ll feel less pressure, and you can get the hang of asking for what you need in a non-confrontational way before you try to disagree on the bigger points. Yes, you want to pick your battles, so if she wants to order in and you’d prefer not to but don’t care that much, you can let it go — but before you let it go, at least make it known that you’d prefer not to. If that makes any sense.

But the real trick is to stop dreading a fight that may never happen, and to trust yourself to handle it if it does happen.

Hi Sars,

You’re probably going to want to kick my ass for being so dumb after you read what a lousy predicament I’m in, but a bit of advice would be appreciated nonetheless. I feel like I’ve overthought this situation so much that I can’t even get a straight answer out of my head, so a fresh perspective would be nice.

Around December of last year, I met a great guy through a mutual friend. I’d just broken up with my casual boyfriend and wasn’t looking for a relationship of any kind. Same goes for this fella — not only was he in town temporarily, waiting to hear on a job in the East (about ten hours away from where I live), but was also dealing with a dissolving two-year relationship (and even now he’s only just starting to admit that it’s been over for a while…Old Girlfriend has a new love interest and hasn’t shown interest in him for some time, fer chrissakes).

So the guy, who I’ll call “Steve,” and I weren’t what you’d call “on the make” when we met. Alas, rather stupidly, I began to find myself attracted to him in a pretty serious way; I could go into all the details, but suffice to say that we match very well, and when I began to realize how seriously I felt for him (over a metter of a couple of weeks of hanging out), I really began to felt as though I’d run smack into a soulmate. I was, and still am, pretty crazy about this guy. We’re just…I don’t know how to explain it all without going on and on, but suffice it to say I’ve dated plenty of guys in my time, and I’ve never felt this way about any of them. AND I tend to consider myself a realist, so it’s not like I was looking for someone to do the proverbial “sweep me off my feet” thing. Stuff happens, I guess.

So…at the time I decided not to fill him in on how I REALLY felt about him, because of the girl thing and the potential move. But one night after hanging out on-one-one, he confessed that he felt the same way and, essentially, he wanted to pursue things with me seriously if he didn’t get the job and could stay in town for a little while. Much longing, sexual tension and joined-at-the-hip activity ensues. He talks about the future, tells me he doesn’t think he’s going to get the job and that he’s crazy about me.

So, naturally, he got the job. And because Old Girlfriend was now going to be only about three hours away from his new location, he didn’t want to cut things off with her quite yet. I’m upset but remain supportive, tell him I understand that he needs to take the job (he couldn’t work here doing the stuff he wants to do — he career is too specialized) and that I want to spend time with him while we still have the opportunity. I attempt to keep things platonic and fail miserably; we don’t have sex, but we do fool around regularly. Usually this means he’ll tell me he doesn’t want to be physical, because he doesn’t want to make the separation harder, but then will turn around and say he can’t resist me. We pretty much pretend like this move isn’t really happening, and when he finally does leave the state, it’s open-ended. I ask him what he wants me to do, and he tells me that he doesn’t want to give up on the potential between us.

So, fast-forward several weeks later, and I decide to go visit him while on break from school. I fly up and tell my friends that I’m going to visit him platonically. Truth is, I think I was just in pretty big denial about it; if I’d left at the end of the week without him touching me, I think I would’ve been pretty disappointed. So, yes, sex happens. Very gratifying, but things seem awkward afterward. I address it with him the next day and try to tell him that it’s okay, but he seems torn between being very attracted to me and wanting to make a go of it with me (which I would be okay with; I’m almost out of school and have the potential to move for the right reasons…if I had reason to believe it would work out, I’d give it a shot) and still having this unresolved bullshit with Old Girlfriend. Basically, he’s not receiving the the strong “it’s over” signals she keeps throwing his way, and I’m sick of seeing him act like such a jackass over her. Even just as his friend, I’m starting to find it exasperating to witness.

For the rest of the week, we continue to have sex and discuss what’s going on, without him once telling me straight-up what he wants from his relationship with me (and stupid me, I was too timid at the time to demand it). When he drove me to the airport, he was by turns affectionate and distant; “mixed signals” doesn’t even begin to apply. I tried to keep it casual so he wouldn’t feel further stressed about it, and told him, “I guess I’ll give you a call on your birthday, then” (which is in a few days). His response: “You guess?” He seemed really concerned that I might not call him.

So, to wrap things up (I KNOW!), I really do care very much for this guy. I can’t explain it well in such a relatively short space, but we really do have a great time when we’re not putting each other through buckets of angst. We talk for hours, love the same music, same taste, blah dee blah…all the good stuff. Part of me even still feels like if he could get his shit together and realize that we’re worth taking a chance on, I would want to go for it. But, simply put, I can’t do that without him placing the smallest amount of faith in me/us, and part of me is wondering if he clings to Old Girlfriend at least partially because it keeps him from having to make a final decision about me. But beyond that, I know I need to make a decision soon to get past this; it’s eating me up, and I can’t get any peace until I know for sure what’s going on. I don’t even know if he even still feels the same way about me anymore since my visit (we haven’t talked; I feel like I ought to wait until the birthday call, like I promised).

So, the two-part question is: Should I ask him, point-blank, what’s up, or let things ride a while and see what happens when we don’t force it? And whether I do this, should I continue to keep being Steve’s friend, even when I know there’s a good chance nothing romantic will work out between us? Part of me just wants to get rejected and get it over with, but part of me is scared of losing a good person and a friend whom I care very much about. Help — his birthday’s in a few days, so that phone call is coming quick!

Kicked in the pants

Dear Pants,

Okay, before I say anything, it’s not that I can’t empathize, because I so, so can. You get into a situation like this, you know it’s pretty stupid, but you feel like it’s worth taking the risk, and if you don’t, you’ll never know…I know. Been there, burned through the Kleenex on that.

But the thing is, you do know. You’ve taken the risk already, and it hasn’t paid off…and it isn’t going to pay off. It’s time to cut your losses. I’m sure he’s a great guy, and I’m sure that, with less melodramatic timing, the two of you could have made a go of it, but between the distance and the bullheadedness about the ex, it’s pretty clear that it’s not going to happen.

Call him on his birthday, as promised. Tell him you can’t go on like this; you understand if he can’t do it, but either he commits to you or you take an unspecified amount of time off from him until you can handle him platonically, but you can’t wait around anymore and you hope he’ll understand. Don’t tell him this because you expect him to respond, because that’s probably not going to happen; tell him this because it’s the truth, and because you want to get on with your life.

It’s painful and disappointing, I know, but sometimes the timing is just bad and no amount of waiting around is really going to change that. Get out now.

Hello Sars,

I have
this problem with my husband’s friend who is staying with us (I’ll call him
“M”). M and my husband (I’ll call him “A”) met six years ago in a hostel in
London and have been good, although not necessarily close, friends. They are
both in IT and have done contracting, so they have quite a few things in
common.

M came to stay with us after 18 months in Bangkok. The job market
was bad there, so he returned to London in the hopes of landing the big
contract and being able to bring his Thai girlfriend here. M will be moving
out after he finds a job, but the market is not good here so it’s just a
matter of time until he finds one. That’s not the problem.

The problem is, M is the most socially retarded individual I have ever met.
He repeats nearly every single sentence that he utters, and not just once.
He’ll say it two or three times. He doesn’t pay any attention to what anyone is
doing, such as me saying, “I’m going to change now” and walking into my
bedroom to change clothes. No, he just follows me and keeps on talking
while I’m changing (I spent a few months in a hostel so that didn’t freak me
out as much as the fact that he just didn’t get it! To me, “I’m going to
change now” means “you stay there, I’ll change and be right back,” not “follow
me and keep blabbing”).

I’m sitting on the couch reading a book, but M
doesn’t care. He talks and talks and talks. Nonstop. All day, all night.
We’ll be watching a TV program for the same amount of time, but does he
watch the show? No. He asks me what’s happening instead! One night I just
lost it and told him that if he would just shut the fuck up and maybe
actually watch the show instead of talking to me about it, he might know
what’s happening. but I can’t both watch the show and tell him what’s
happening. At first I thought it might be because he’s just spent 18 months
in Thailand and ended up teaching kids to speak English. and that he was just
missing conversational English. But now all it takes is two minutes in his
company and I want to choke the living shit out of him.

A also is suffering with this need to choke. He mentioned that he didn’t
realise that M hadn’t changed, and I immediately asked him why he’d offered
to let M stay with us if he knew that M was the way he is; A’s reply was
that he thought 18 months in Thailand would have changed M, but apparently
not. M also knows how every single company in the world works — they are
all dodgy, of course, and if you have an interview then it’s best to make
them come out to meet you for coffee to be on equal footing rather than go
into their office where you would be at a disavantage. In fact, he knows so
much about how everything works that I’m amazed I’ve made it this far in
life without that essential knowledge (insert sarcasm where necessary). A
had told M one day to shut up, as it was non-stop verbal diarrhea while A
was trying to look for work from home, and M became very offended and
replied he didn’t feel it was fair that he was told to shut up.

My question is this — is there a way to make M understand just why we are so
irritated all the time with him? How do I explain that it is not necessary
to repeat every word one utters? How can I get across to someone like
this that I do not feel my request for peace and quiet is unfair, and that
when I am watching that all-important, everything-coming-together moment in
a TV show, I do not want him to ask me what is going on? If it carries
on for much longer, I’m going to have to make a game out of it, to stop
myself from going mad.

I’m sorry this seems so muddled. I usually love having people stay with us,
but this time we’re both ready to kill the houseguest.

Sign me,
Shut The Fuck Up Or I’ll Kill You

Dear STFU,

Tell him to leave. Seriously. I mean, ordinarily I would suggest that you start telling M to stop whatever annoying shit he’s doing, in a nice tone but point-blank. “Please stop talking to me; I’m trying to read.” “I’d like to change in private; please wait for me in the living room.” But apparently that’s not going to work, so…M is an adult. Welcoming him for an open-ended stay is a nice gesture, but enough already.

Give it to him sugar-free. “M, it’s not that we mind you staying here…but you need to start putting a sock in it now and then. Like it or not, that’s how it’s done here. You can continue to enjoy our hospitality by punctuating your stay with long periods of silence, or you can pack up your bindle and beat it. No, seriously. No. SERIOUSLY.”

Sars,

Excuse me if this is too petty, or too New York, but yesterday my
wife and I were having brunch at City Bakery, up in the balcony, and it
was sort of a splurge because it’s going to be $30 and we basically
stumbled in because it was raining, it was cold, et cetera. Anyway, we’re
sitting at our tiny table and the empty table next to us is then occupied
by two women, one of whom begins chatting away really insistently, and at
length (about dysfunctional friends, mainly this guy Robert, and how he
brings out the worst in everyone she knows, he even brings out the worst
in her, and when he’s with Stacy they don’t pay attention to anyone
else, and they never invite her over either, not even to with them on
Fridays to the Met, you get the idea…).

This woman’s conversation
wasn’t excruciating, but it was insistently in our ears the entire time,
and it felt like we could barely but a sentence together. Now, I
understand that we could have tried to nicely say, “Excuse me, I know your
conversation is very important to you, but it’s a little loud and if
perhaps you could just speak a but more quietly we’d really appreciate
it.” But can you ever really say that, or something like that, without
leaving a residue of resentment and irritation that stays in the air
through the rest of the meal (which is even more invasive than the loud
conversation)? And as we’ve both just been served, we’re going to be
sitting next to each other for another half an hour (and moving to another
table isn’t an option, the place is packed).

Further, part of the reason
her voice is loud is that merely we’re so close (because it’s New York),
and it’s a loud bustling place. So it’s that middle ground where, on one
hand, she’s speaking too loud for the proximity of others, and it’s really
cramping our enjoyment, but at the same time we’re convinced, partially
just from her self-aggrieved tone, that if we say anything to her it will
come across like we just said, “Hey, shut up!” which isn’t really what we
want to say, because who hasn’t needed to bitch about dysfunctional
friends, or dysfunctional selves. But still, $30, spent learning far too
much about Robert. So can I ask what you do in this kind of situation?

G

Dear G,

Fucking Robert, man. I hate that fucking guy.

As a recent survivor of a similar aural assault, replacing City Bakery with Mezzogiorno and the Robertiana with a Romulan death cackle that had blood trickling down my neck, I feel your pain, but generally speaking, there isn’t much you can do. Glares, pointed eye-rolls, and dramatic pained clutching of foreheads just out of the sight-line don’t work, generally, and it’s true that a gentle, well-meaning “would you mind keeping it down” isn’t usually received well.

I have had a little luck with inserting myself into the conversation, if that’s something you feel you have the brio to try. Wait for an opening, and when it comes, make a trenchant, witty observation about Robert yourself. You’ll get either a startled giggle or a “butt out, stranger” look, but either way, you’ll also probably get a lowering of voices. If that’s what you want and you can endure an incoming eye-roll, give it a try.



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