The Vine: May 12, 2010
Sorry for the late post today, friends. I’m at Aunt Camp, where internet is spotty, and spent a productive morning scything grass; mulching heather; avoiding a giant, needy bumblebee that seems to believe it’s not just A puppy but MY puppy; and deciding whether to call my new pupplebee “the Hindenbee” or “CC Sabeethia” (mofo is BIG, people).
Anyway: Vine!
*****
Sars,
I, and several of my friends have tried to figure out what is wrong with me. We have been unable to precisely pinpoint the root of the issue, nor identify any workable solutions. I hope that you will be up to one, or both, of these challenges. My problems are — shockingly — boy-related.
I’m in my late 30s, recently divorced (married 12 years, divorced about 5 months now), and have two grade-school-age kids. This past year has been quite a bunch of ups and downs. I had caught my ex cheating on me a few years ago, and made the mistake of believing he’d quit that relationship while he “worked on” ours; he started allowing that relationship to be out in the open over the holidays, and announced his engagement a couple of weeks ago. The kids are doing well, considering. They have a therapist and she agrees that they’re doing well.
I had a therapist for the first few months I was separated, and he believed I was doing well. In addition to the whole cheating thing, my ex was verbally and emotionally abusive, and I spent a good deal of time crying, and checking that the doors were locked, and crying. Still, my therapist thought it might be a good idea for me to start dating. I didn’t necessarily disagree, but I didn’t begin dating until right around the date the divorce was finalized (I accepted, and unfortunately broke several dates before becoming brave enough to actually go on one).
I have been very lucky, in that I’ve been very busy (I’ve got my kids most of the time, but as far as when I don’t have them, I’ve had stuff to do). Some truly wonderful guys have asked me out, and I’ve had some really great times. I can’t — and shouldn’t — complain. However …
I’ve become completely and totally neurotic, to the point where I feel like I shouldn’t be dating at all, possibly ever. Over the past several weeks, I’ve begun seeing someone I really like. I almost called him and told him I couldn’t do this anymore a few days ago, but my buddy talked me out of it — he said the only way to get over this and have a successful relationship is not to run screaming out of every potential relationship. What happened that made me want to stop seeing him? It was approximately three hours of no contact. That’s it.
We have a fantastic time together, and I think he’s wonderful, we see each other fairly often (more than a few times a week there for awhile, but that was because he’d had an injury and was hospitalized near my place), and IM online a bunch. We’d IMed that morning, and then when I realized a few hours later that I hadn’t heard from him by any means (not that there was anything to say, really), I immediately figured he’d turned into an ass and this was his way of saying he was breaking up with me. Three hours; I was sobbing.
So I got in touch with my rational friend, and he advised me to chill the hell out, that nothing had happened, relax, etc. I was able to calm down, and heard from the guy later that night. Sure enough, everything was fine.
I saw him last night, and it was pretty much the best night ever. We spent part of the afternoon together, went to dinner, shopping for wine, to a party at my friend’s house, then back to his place for a good while. We laughed and talked and he met a handful of my friends (I’ve met a bunch of his), everyone got along great. It was very late when I left to come home, and he asked that I text him when I was in safe, which I did (he texted back). It was basically a 12-hour date, and it couldn’t have gone better.
When I got up this morning, I was greeted with a sweet IM, thanking me for such a great night. I thanked him for same (it seems we spend a good deal of our time complimenting and thanking one another, we’re kind of almost sickening). After a short while, he said he needed to speak with a friend of his, and he’d talk to me in a bit; I said I’d be around.
That was 9 hours ago, and in my mind, the whole night last night has become a terrible lie, not to mention the last month, I’m pretty sure I’ll never hear from him again, and I’m bracing myself for the embarrassment when my friends ask where he went. As I said, he was recently injured/had surgery, so it’s entirely possible that he’s resting (especially since we were up all night), and he definitely has mobility issues at this point — I guess I mean to say, I accept that there may be a perfectly logical (as opposed to seething-hate-based) explanation.
I was thisclose to asking him (me getting in touch with him to do so, instead of waiting for him to get in touch with me) if he liked me less today, but then I got scared. He’s come right out and told me that he likes me, and he compliments me to no end (well, not really to no end, because I wouldn’t think it was sweet if it was that much). Because of his hospitalization, we started this entire thing spending long hours talking about all sorts of very intense things. We’re really comfortable with each other.
I have no reason to not let this work, if it can — why on Earth do I feel like everything can — and most likely will — turn on a dime? Why can I, when we’re together, commit egregious PDA and run around giggling like a teenager, only to freak out, like…wait a minute, a teenager?! I’m too old for all these ups and downs and I don’t know what to do.
For what it’s worth, I was even worse than this with the first guy I dated after my divorce. I think I hid it reasonably well, but I was definitely worse. If it’s maybe just a matter of time, I think I can deal with that. I would also, probably (okay, maybe), be comfortable letting him know that I’m struggling. I trust him, I think. Some guesses as to my major malfunction are insecurity, generalized anxiety…I can’t remember any of the others, but they’re along those same lines, I think.
I don’t think I’m insecure, though, really. There’s not much I would change about myself if given the chance; I might be a little healthier (like, in the whole foods organic and exercising sense — I don’t think I’m mentally unhealthy, overall). And I might’ve not waited so long to get out of a bad marriage. But otherwise, I think I pretty much rock.
I have had some panic attacks in my life, when I was still married, and for a short while after we separated; I know I’m doing all right with that, because I have an as-needed prescription, and I last had it filled in October, and I’ve used fewer than 10 tablets (I can take up to 2 a day).
I’m starting to wonder whether this anxiety — which I very much did not have in my previous dating life — has anything to do with all the current methods by which communication can occur. Last time I dated, there was in person, phone, and occasionally email or cell phone (but why would anyone do email or cell, back then, when we had regular phones?).
Now, between IM, texting, everyone with a cell phone on their person at all times, landlines, email, FB, etc., I wonder if there isn’t a higher standard of communication frequency? With that first guy I dated post-divorce (when I was worse), I used to try and make algorithms to translate current modes of communication to something I understood, like: 500 word email = 30 minute phone call; 3 texts from work (not during lunch) = 15 minute phone call.
Needless to say, there are no easy correlations to be made. It’s very individual. I’ve dated guys who text throughout the day, and others who only do so under extreme duress. Some who would rather email to ask if you want to talk on the phone, and others who would rather have a chat window open all day, whether they use it or not. (Okay, really, I’m only talking about, like, three people here, but still. There’s a range.)
Oh, and dating and stuff isn’t even the focus of my life, either. Of course I’ve got my kids to take care of, I’m a fulltime student and active participant in two artists’ groups, and I have bunches of wonderful, fantastic friends that I get to see a good deal of.
Like I said — can’t complain! But: complaining!
So, so, confused
P.S. I drafted this letter, did some studying, wrote him a quick email, and got ready for bed…it’s been 12 hours since “we’ll talk in a bit,” one hour since I emailed him, and about 7 hours since I’ve gone totally bananas. I need to sleep but I’m so afraid that he’ll write back and I’ll miss it, I sit here with the computer open next to me…and wait. Like an idiot.
…And, terribly, it paid off. He got in touch with me — there was an actual computer problem preventing him from doing so earlier (yes, verified). And I told him I was neurotic, and my day was a little crazy because I thought he was avoiding me, and he apologized, and said I was wonderful, and thanked me for being me and sharing me with him, and oh my god, this just means, mainly, that I’ll be okay until it all happens again tomorrow.
Dear Confused,
Where to begin. Let’s start with “(yes, verified)” — what? “Verified” by whom? And to what end? Do you actually feel better or more secure about your status with this guy? No. He would have to remain in touch with you more or less every minute he’s awake, and I suspect that even under those circumstances you would find a way to tell yourself that he’s insincere, or “obviously bored,” or…pick your self-hating narrative.
You don’t trust the guy; you don’t trust yourself or your instincts. Your ex, a man you tried to build a life with, the father of your children, cheated on you and treated you like crap in other ways, and you clearly have not dealt with that. He humiliated you, and you expect the current guy to do it too. “I’m bracing myself for the embarrassment when my friends ask where he went”? That is not about this guy or this relationship. That is about feeling like you failed in your marriage somehow and like everyone is judging you.
You say that you think you “pretty much rock,” and no doubt you do, but I don’t buy that you really think that, not for one second. A woman who genuinely believes she rocks does not feel a compulsion to do algorithms for interpersonal communication.
So what’s “wrong with” you? Well, nothing, really. You got hurt, badly; that led to a major life upheaval; you probably repressed a lot of your rage and resentment for the sake of the kids. None of that is anything that’s wrong with you as a person, or wrong behavior. It happens.
But your therapist’s whole “get back on the horse right away” thing…I guess I see it, in theory, but in practice, it wasn’t your idea, and it wasn’t making you happy, and I get the feeling you only went along with it because it would prompt the therapist to assess you as “doing fine.” Which: evidently not, and besides, there’s a difference between “not suicidally depressed over the divorce” and “emotionally ready to enter into another serious relationship.” I’m sure the therapist and your friend mean well, but if you didn’t feel ready, you shouldn’t have gone ahead with it, and if your intuition now tells you that it’s too soon for you to date, you should listen to it this time.
The nicest man in the world is not going to let you feel secure in a relationship with him until you deal with your shit from your divorce. “Fuck someone new and take a Xanax if it gets weird” is actually not horrible advice in some cases, but in your case, you need a therapist (…not the same one) who will push you on some of your totally normal, but still illogical, feelings of worthlessness and self-loathing, and teach you to short-circuit that vicious cycle of “he’s never going to call me again, I smell funny and will die alone.” Why didn’t you just call him up and check in? That never occurred to you, did it? Why not?
You have no agency here — none. You feel out of control; it’s why you’re being so controlling. It’s completely understandable, but it’s not going to fix itself; you have to address the feelings the divorce created, and you have to address the feelings that led you to your ex, and to trying to work things out with someone who treated you poorly. Again, none of it is your fault, but if you don’t deal with it now…look at the length of your letter. You shouldn’t lug this shit around anymore, seriously. Life’s too short.
You can stay with the current guy or not. It’s probably better if you tell him, look, I really like you, which is why I need to call an audible — my divorce fucked with my head worse than I thought and I have to work some things out before this goes any further. And if he really digs you, he’ll wait, and if he doesn’t wait, that’s okay. The problem is that you don’t really believe anything is okay, least of all yourself, and telling yourself that “busy” means “happy” is only going to work for so long.
Digging into the past to get answers is scary and frequently unfun, but you can handle it. You can. And you have to, or you’ll keep winding up in tears, and there’s a better option.
Tags: boys (and girls) CC Sabathia the Hindenburg
“CC Sabeethia” is a lovely name for a pupplebee. :)
You know, I realized after posting…the bee is fat; it’s stripey; it’s clingy; it loves plants. I…already have this bumble-“mee?”. His name is Little Joe.
Sars is so dead on here. OMG, honey, fire that therapist. Your entire letter screams TRUST ISSUES loud enough to be heard in Japan. Your therapist could not have been more wrong to send you back into dating. You are not capable of giving anyone the trust necessary to embark on a healthy romantic relationship right now.
And this is not a judgement. Your ex fucked you over, bad, and it takes a while to recover when someone we trust screws us that badly. And I think you have additional anger and mistrust of yourself for staying with him only to eventually have him leave anyway. Its ok to take time before entering into a new relationship. I think you should.
Look at it this way. Maybe this guy is wonderful; it sounds like he is. But is the relationship making you happy? No. You feel that you “should” be happy-you “can’t complain, but complaining.” The relationship is doing two things right now: 1) giving you something to obsess over so you don’t have to be alone with yourself and 2) covering up from your therapist, your friends, and yourself how you really feel, which is…insecure, unhappy, and angry with your ex for his shit and yourself for tolerating it.
Again, I don’t mean this to come off judgemental or as tough as it probably does; I don’t always have Sars knack for delivering the message gracefully. I just think you need to work on your issues with a therapist that does not push you into things you aren’t ready for, against your own instincts. I wish you the best of luck and hope it works out for you.
It’s sort of shocking (not in an Aunt-Myrtle sort of way) that any therapist would advocate jumping into a relationship right out of the painful-divorce box. By no means am I slagging on Confused’s therapist; I don’t have any counseling credentials, nor do I write an advice column, so…
It’s been my experience, though, that counseling professionals will USUALLY advise giving it some time (as in, six months, a year, two years) before leaping in again.
That comment just made this picture even more hilarious.
Married for twelve years to an abusive, cheating spouse and the therapist advises you to start dating again after a few months? That’s not getting back on the horse, that’s more like throwing yourself under a bus. It’s the best way I know of to end up in exactly the same kind of relationship you just got out of because you haven’t had time to develop any kind of perspective on your relationship with your former husband, or to heal from the misery you lived in.
Five months is no time at all. I know this from experience. Right now you are just maintaining. You will definitely eventually start to feel better about yourself, because you appear to have a great deal of self-awareness and know when to ask for help. But Sars advice is right on. Go back into therapy – and definitely with a different therapist, who won’t cut you loose so fast.
That bee sounds nice. I have a giant, angry bee who keeps ramming into my front window at speed. I’m pretty sure he’s trying to break into my house and steal all my valuables. I keep thinking a bird has hit the window, but no. Just the angry bee.
I read somewhere that you should give yourself about half as long as the relationship lasted to get over it. Now this was probably in some angsty teen publication which was talking about relationships that last weeks instead of years but there is some grain of truth there. We live in a world were everyone is a bit ADD. We expect that we move on in real life as fast as they do in the soaps.
I say, give yourself a break. After a 12 year marriage even without the abuse and cheating moving on after 5 months is fast! Maybe if it had been an amicable break up then that’s ok but it wasn’t in your case.
I agree with Sars. Get another therapist and give yourself a break. It’s ok to not be ok yet. Be honest with your therapist and don’t just say things you think you should be saying. Tell them how you really feel.
Good luck
Also, I’m sorry to have to say this, but I don’t hear any indication in this letter that the writer knows *intellectually* that her outlook on this is insane. I’m hoping that intellectually at least, she knows that it’s absurd to think people should be in contact that much (ever, but especially after “a few weeks” of dating someone). Seriously, you should be able to let whole days (plural) go by without talking, and without reading into it. It is not normal or healthy to expect to talk to someone multiple times a day and to read into it if you don’t. Most healthy relationships where the people aren’t living together = talking once a day and not freaking out if you don’t.
I totally understand that you have Issues that are causing this, but if you don’t even intellectually see this as problematic, that worries me.
So much WORD, Sars!
Also, I think there’s way too much “back in the saddle”-ness going on. I mean, some things are hard and take time to deal with, and maybe you don’t want to be with anybody because you’re FULL OF CRAZY (I’m referring to my 22-year-old self in this sense) and THAT’S OKAY! Taking time to just be you and do the things you want to do and be with family/friends you want to be with, that’s totally cool, and can be really productive in terms of thinking about yourself.
Hee, hee, Pupplebee!
Confused, take some deep breaths, and I’m not saying that lightly. Your letter started to fling itself around my brain like a bat on meth, buzzing, fizzing, sparking with anxiety, starting new little anxiety fires wherever it brushed things with its frantic little wings. In through the nose, out through the mouth, until you can feel it slow up a bit.
I have an idea that your anxiety is a focusing lens through which you’re dealing with the crazy-making shit of your life, because having your brain focus all that stuff into “anxiety” and than beam it around like a kid with a magnifying glass is, paradoxically enough, calming. You can focus on the results of the beam (algorithms, crying) and keep your mind off the bulky masses of the things you’re trying to keep too busy to think about (asshole ex, feelings of failure, running a household on your own.)
As much as we as a society like to skip over the hard part of hard times and plunge right into the triumphant conclusion, skipping steps will only force your problems out the front door and up the storm drain in the basement. Trying to beieve that you’re “cured” because your shrink said so, tallying how much antipanic meds you’re taking to “prove” you don’t need them–Sars is right. It’s not that the shrink’s advice was bad, per se; it’s just not right for you, not here and now.
You live in the here and now. Chasing methbats around your living room is distracting but ultimately exhausting, and in the end, all you’ll have is bat in hand and a torched living space. Open up a window, let it fly out, deal with what’s inside, breathe.
I agree with the concept of waiting after a bad relationship for a while, before dating again. Can’t love someone else until you remember to love yourself.
Can’t love someone else until you remember to love yourself.
“Can I get a amen in here?” — RuPaul
Amen, Ru/Sars!
@Alison: It’s not impossible, but that’s not the vibe I get. When you’re in a world where you’re justifying things in scary and cleared abused ways (like “he didn’t mean to hit me, he was just on drugs”), your thinking gets all kinds of jacked up. Also, when you get cheated on, that paranoia stays with you in a very general relationship sense for a good long time until you truly relaaax and have processed the hurt to a reasonable degree, and stuff like that. So that stupid/crazy (I say that with all the affection in the world, this was me a not terribly long time ago, and I’m fortunate to be out of it) will go away as time and real dealing with shit goes on.
If you don’t deal with your emotional baggage, yeah, you can totally forget what reality looks like, because your reality has looked all fucked up for so long that that has become normal reality and you’re just looking to get through a single 24 hours without a complete meltdown.
@Confused, I sat straight up when Sars nailed it: “illogical feelings of worthlessness and self-loathing, and…that vicious cycle of “he’s never going to call me again, I smell funny and will die alone.” That shit is dead on.
Here’s what I did when I was in your situation: wrecked that relationship so fast it barely knew what hit it. Talked myself into believing he didn’t really care for me, found a fake justification to rationalize my irrational belief that we were doomed, and then doomed us by breaking up with him. I didn’t trust him, I couldn’t trust myself; I knew intellectually that my need for constant reassurance was kookoopants, but sans therapist or good friends near, I had only my own judgment to fall back on, and my own judgment? Sucked. I broke his heart, I think, though I didn’t know so at the time–I was so far gone all I could feel was a kind of relief that he hadn’t broken mine first. Finding out years later the extent of the pain I caused him? That broke my heart.
So…that is not an approach I recommend.
You need a therapist who will help you deal with your anxiety by any means necessary, including both behavioral therapy and medication as appropriate. Don’t stigmatize pharmaceutical help or look on it as some kind of last resort. Meds are like climbing shoes: they will help you get and maintain a foothold; therapy is your climbing partner and rope, to give you directions and keep you safe. You still have to do the work of climbing yourself, but you need some tools. Knowing your judgment is suspect is half the battle: find a therapist you can trust the way you trust your rational friend, and accept the help s/he can offer.
Having been through a divorce from an emotionally, verbally, and occasionally physically abusive man after 7 years (but no kids), meeting someone AMAZING 1.5 months into my separation (for timing’s sake it’s been 14 months), acting completely neurotic at various points, and having the whole thing sanctioned by a wonderful therapist, I have to repeat what I was told: all of this is textbook. Yes, you should find yourself a therapist with whom you are comfortable; yes, you should coax yourself into waiting on some communication urges; yes, you should continue to admit/apologize after acting oddly. However, all of it is COMPLETELY normal and makes you worth not a single bit less. The inner stability you are after will come gradually in time. Give yourself a HUGE break (!) – you’ve been through a special kind hell only some of us understand, and one that makes you doubt yourself and your value to others constantly, and in such a way that you can’t always control. The fact that you have such self-awareness indicates that you’ll do fine in time.
No offense intended, but someone needs to tell the guy she is dating to run the other direction. You are not ready for a relationship, no matter how much you ‘talk the talk’ you aren’t ready for this. Sounds like she really wants a ‘relationship’, I mean really, really wants one. Give it time honey.
also: if he’s worth it, he’ll understand. mine takes it in stride like it’s nothing. his usual words are “you have nothing to apologize for.” and then something like “so what are you doing later?” really. be easy with yourself. what you are doing for yourself and your kids right now is hard stuff.
I’m so sorry you had to go through all that – that sounds terrible. I have to say, though, that I agree with the other commenters that this current situation can’t be helping. Just because you barely touched your anti-anxiety pills doesn’t mean you aren’t anxious, just because your therapist said you were ready to date after a few months doesn’t make it so. I can empathize with you – a part of you thinks “I don’t want to be the one getting pitying looks from my friends anymore! I don’t want to be crying and depressed and angry with myself and wondering what the hell happened! I want my life back, I want to be normal! I’m fine!” But trust me, ignoring the fallout from a breakup only makes it harder in the long run. I’ve done both, and it took me WAY longer to recover emotionally when I told everyone I was fine, nothing to see here I’VE ALREADY MOVED ON. My last breakup sucked, but I let myself me sad, I was honest with myself and my friends how I was hurting, and I didn’t date anyone for a year (not that this is the magical duration of relationship grief or anything). Sometimes the only way to the other side is through the icky stuff. Good luck – you can do it!
Dude.
Five months post divorce is not a time to start dating, and I think your therapist is on the crack. You’ve got some justifiably major issues here, and the solution isn’t to throw a bit of dick at it.
I don’t think you can blame your neuroses on technology changing either. I think being cheated on, and dealing with the abusive behaviour for 12 years, has destroyed your self-esteem and made you terribly unsure of yourself. And this current relationship isn’t going to fix you because there’s no way to shrink a full-grown man and put him inside your brain, so he can reassure you 24/7 that he still thinks you’re awesome.
And if you think dating isn’t the focus of your life, when you can’t bear to go to sleep because you might miss an email? You are lying to yourself. Go to bed. The damn email will still be there in the morning.
New therapist time, post-haste.
As someone who is currently in therapy (and where it is working for the first time ever!) I cringed when I read, “my ex was verbally and emotionally abusive, and I spent a good deal of time crying, and checking that the doors were locked, and crying. Still, my therapist thought it might be a good idea for me to start dating.” Wait, WTF? No, no, no, NO!
Fire him! Practice firing him in front of the mirror if you have to. (If he’s already out of the picture, great!) Search your insurance carrier if you have one, and the web if you don’t. Seek out a well-recommended psychologist and a psychiatrist if you need meds. If you do not have insurance, ask about a sliding scale fee.
Use your network of trusted friends and associates, speak candidly to them and see if any of them have a therapist they can recommend. Make a consultation appointment or conduct telephone interviews with at least three and you should be on your way to finding The One! Good luck!
@Confused:
First, I’m very sorry about what happened in your marriage– your ex sounds like a grade A douchebag and I applaud the fact that you are able to rise above your anger for the sake of your children. That alone is proof that you’re a good person with reserves of inner strength.
I think you need to break up with this guy– you aren’t ready, and there’s nothing wrong with being alone. He’s not the last nice guy you’ll ever meet in your life, you can let this one go find another one when you’re actually ready.
Give yourself some time to grieve the relationship with your ex. Yes, HE’S a dick, but the relationship was still important and you’re allowed to feel sad about that, you don’t need to feel all “It was the best thing that ever happened! You go girl!” about it if it’s not genuine. Find a therapist who listens to your fears and pushes you but not too far, not to the point that you’re, essentially, lying in deed about your emotional state.
Yes, get a new therapist, and yes, the pills are there for a reason, it doesn’t make you weak if you take them or mean you “win” if you don’t take them.
Also, I cannot recommend enough the book “Rebuilding: When Your Relationship Ends” by Dr. Bruce Fisher. His website is http://www.rebuilding.org, which also has info on seminars and other things, but the book was the only thing I read after my (really, REALLY ugly) breakup that made sense and helped me feel more normal.
Good luck. Work on you first.
I had a bad break up once and quit dating for 5 years. It wasn’t as bad as the OPs (no marriage, no kids, not as long) but it felt bad to me and I could not get out of a neurotic headspace. I told myself I was too insane to be allowed to date and took myself off the market.
In retrospect 5 years may have been too long because I wasn’t working on the problems. But by the time I was ready to date again I was really ready and I’d changed things about myself, about what I looked for in a partner and about how I approached dating.
So, it takes as long as it takes. Sometimes it takes forever. The OP may never completely get over her trust issues but with help she’ll be able to manage them. It’s not just the panic that he hasn’t called that’s the problem it’s her inability to call him in case calling him is the straw that makes him break up with her. This could drive a perfectly nice trustworthy guy to throw in the towel because the OP is still hung up on her issues with her ex.
I agree with Sars that more therapy would be helpful and add that the goal shouldn’t be ‘get yourself sane enough to date’ (although that’s a tempting idea) but ‘get yourself sane – then date’.
Oh and finally trust your friends not to think of you as a failure if a relationship doesn’t work out. I’m sure the OP wouldn’t blame her friends in a similar situation. So trust them not to blame you.
Oh, Confused: I feel for you. I really do. Your letter could have been written by both my ex-boyfriend and me (minus the kids and emotional abuse). *I* was always thinking, “he’s going to break up with me and I’m going to die alone and ugly!” because I couldn’t believe that anyone would ever care about me and I have anxiety problems and so forth and so forth. *He* was still reeling from the fallout of his wife leaving him for another man, putting their house up for sale (2 years later, it’s still on the market) and moving back in with his parents to make ends meet, after being with her since they were 18 (we were all about 24-26ish when this stuff went down).
He broke up with me because he realized he shouldn’t be dating anyone right now. It hurt– a lot– and it still does, but I think he’s right. He needed time. You need time. (Sorry, didn’t mean to make this all about me). You’ve been through serious s***. You need time to deal. That’s normal. Please give yourself time to work through these things.
And with a different therapist because yeah: his/her advice sucked. I’m not a therapist and maybe I shouldn’t say that but: it was not good advice for you. You’ll be okay. It will take a while and it will suck but eventually, you will be okay. But like Sars had said on here: the only way out is through (I know I’m paraphrasing it so I apologize if I totally botched it).
Something sounds a little off to me on the therapist issue. It sounds as though Confused has been very invested in convincing anyone and everyone that she is Okay, Fine, and that there’s Nothing to Worry About. If this is also what she brought into the therapist’s office, it’s possible that the therapist either believed Confused was ready to date or suggested that she date since she believes she is doing fine.
If Confused expressed all the anxiety issues to her therapist that she did in her letter, it seems odd that the therapist wouldn’t immediately look to post-traumatic stress of a sort.
I’m not saying bad therapists don’t exist, and certainly Confused should search for one who is the ‘right’ fit for her. But therapy’s effectiveness (to a certain degree) does depend on a person’s investment in it. No therapist will be able to offer the appropriate advice if you don’t give them anything to work with.
In any case, Confused, give yourself a break and recognize you couldn’t have done anything to stop bad things from happening in your marriage. You do not have the power to make people cheat and abuse you. Like Sars said, you’re being hypervigilant because you think making sure that phone call happens will keep someone else from deceiving you and leaving. But it won’t. You actually can’t control other people’s actions. So stop blaming yourself for them.
To play devil’s advocate; please make sure you’re being honest with your therapist. I get the sense that you’re very good at justifying (abused victims often are), and I really wonder if the therapist believes you’re doing well because you’re saying all the right things, and faking it really well. People who live with an abuser for several years can be remarkable liars, simply for self-preservation (“If I say the right thing, he won’t hit or make fun of me.”). I’m not saying you shouldn’t look for another therapist, but please make sure you’re being completely honest with this one; it could very well be that if you confess to him/her all your feelings and concerns, that the therapist may step back and say “okay, I was wrong, you’re not ready, let’s figure this out together.”. If he/she doesn’t, then I would look for someone else.
‘Fused, what everyone said. Dating should be a leap of faith & hope, not a push and drag sort of thing. You never want to go through that horrible relationship & breakup again – so part of you is protecting you by breaking up before the relationship gets started, a pre-emptive strike. Seems like a normal reaction to me!
I hope you’ll take all this excellent advice. Obviously you’re smart & strong & self-aware & brave, so I bet you’ll work through this quickly. And I hope he waits, he sounds nice. (“it seems we spend a good deal of our time complimenting and thanking one another, we’re kind of almost sickening” Isn’t it lovely, though? My relationship is like this, 16 years and counting. That’s how a nice guy acts! I hope you’ll get used to it!)
In the meantime…got a photo of Mr Nice Guy? A photo of The Bastard Ex? Put them side-by-side & stare at them. Often. Find every little difference in them until your mind sees that these are two different guys. IknowIknowIknow, it sounds so damned stupid…but it helped me. Best of luck to you!
@Confused – if you do begin to seek out a new therapist (and I certainly echo the hopes that you do), I would like to toss out a sugesstion of some EMDR therapy. It’s a really intriguing technique that is often successful in separating your physiological anxiety reactions from their emotional triggers, so that your past are just stories – not still residing inside you actively.
Sounds wonky, but that’s the simplest way I can describe it. It’s worked extremely well with PTSD cases.
Best of luck to you! You deserve to feel good!
Oh, this is so familiar. I broke up a 5-year relationship (emotionally, verbally abusive, pretty sure he cheated on me, etc., etc.), lost my grandmother and got back on the horse almost immediately (granted, no marriage and the relationship had really ended a year earlier so I had done a lot of grieving already…)
So, I will say this – I agree that a lot of this is normal. You can totally see a range of my dating issues start where our writer is and end where I am now – happily engaged. But, to think that this one is going to work out is probably not true.
But, you need to take the reins yourself… if you are feeling this stressed out and upset, chill for a while… trust your instincts, you’ll know when you are ready…
and when you are, if you want to have that “constant communication” thing going on – try online dating… it worked great for me…
Confused, if I may add to the general chorus–I think you’re a great spackler. I think you’re, shall we say, excessively goal-oriented when it comes to being “okay,” whatever “okay” means, and that you really haven’t given enough time to consider that you’re not okay. Your post says “I’m totally okay, really–so why am I not okay?” Because you’re not okay. And that’s okay. Okay?
I’m going to be a little less tough-love than Sars and the other posters here, Confused, not that I don’t think all their advice is amazing and fantastic and you should heed it. But I really empathize with your situation…I have been there and sometimes I’m still there.
I’ve been divorced from a verbally abusive and controlling man for 4 years now (no kids), and I’ve been with an amazing man for the last 2 1/2 (after some random dating here and there). It wasn’t until I entered into this current relationship that I realized how fucked up I really was by my ex. Looking at things on paper, I probably should have told Current Man that it was too soon when we started getting serious. And I did express my fears about that to him, and he was understanding. And has continued to be understanding, when things still come up for me 4 years later. So while I’m all for time alone to work on your own issues, I can’t say that was what worked best for me. I certainly enjoyed and benefited from the time alone I had between relationships, but it was really when I started engaging in a loving, healthy relationship that the unloving, unhealthy practices from my previous relationship really started coming to light and made me realize how hurt I really had been. (I had become very good at “talking the talk” and had sort of blocked out a lot of the pain Ex had caused me.) And I feel fortunate to have found someone that is willing to be patient as I work through these things.
So I agree that you should tell New Guy that you are going through a difficult time and let him know that a new serious relationship is not a healthy option for you right now. But I don’t think you necessarily need to push a caring person away. Just keep it light and focus on you, and things may work themselves out with him or with someone else in time.
I agree with what’s been said, and I had another thought which may be way off base, but the letter pinged something in my head. Confused says her therapist and her best friend are both men. I know when I was in therapy, I found it a very different experience to talk to a woman versus a man, especially when you’re dealing with trust issues. It’s not a matter of “only a woman can know” or “men don’t understand” blah blah blah, but there really is a difference sometimes in how we react to men and women. Some of it’s just subconscious. And I’m not saying not to call your best guy friend — he seems to offer solid advice — but other perspectives might be called for.
Start with yourself. Get a new therapist. While interviewing new therapists, tell them that you took advice from your old therapist even though everything inside you was screaming not to do it. It was a ad fit between you and your old therapist, and you need to make sure that your new therapist understands this particular vulnerability.
Also, make sure that the guy you are dating knows you are working on some pretty serious trust issues. Let him know that you ARE working on them (see: get new therapist and make sure that this one is a better fit for your current necessities), but also let him know that you are still working out how to be yourself out from under the old relationship.
After that, breathe. Breathe a lot. When you panic, breathe. Then ask for what you need, and if you don’t know what you need, get with the therapist and figure it out. If the guy is game for working through this with you, then eventually, you will learn to let him know when you are panicky and the two of you can figure out a protocol to deal with it.
But start by finding a therapist who will help you learn to breathe when you’re panicked, so that you can learn to trust yourself again.
It’s important for you to feel that any decision you make about this guy is OK. If you want to lay it on the table and see what he says, that’s fine. If you’d prefer to tell him, “it’s not you, it’s me,” and leave it at that, it’s fine too. I agree with other posters that you’ve been busy contorting yourself into other people’s version of “OK” and need to let go and feel what’s right just for you at this moment. I imagine the stress of keeping up a brave, strong front for your kids takes a lot out of you, and a fledgling relationship with this guy is the only context in which you can manifest that enormous amount of anxiety and grief.
Maybe I’m projecting, but I sensed some reluctance on your part to end the relationship because the guy is sweet and attentive. Treating you better than your ex doesn’t mean you have to commit to this new guy now, or ever. I learned the hard way that if a relationship makes you sad or anxious a lot of the time, then it doesn’t matter that he’s a nice guy and you *should* like him and want to keep seeing him. Being with him is making you crazy (in your words), and though it has nothing directly to do with his personality, you can still opt out of the relationship without feeling like a jerk. At any rate, take care of yourself.
Another “been there, done that” here. First: don’t beat yourself up just because you have problems – it’s quite understandable. I do feel for you.
This new one sounds like a good guy. Talk to him. Explain. Maybe a good idea to do it on a walk – I at least feel that it gives an outlet for the stress hormones, and it’s also sometimes easier to talk if you are not facing each other. Explain as much as you can about your insecurity problems, stress that it’s not his fault (he sounds as he gives you a lot of reassurance, just not enough for you because you’re bottomless right now) and that you really like him, but really are having problems because of sucky ex. Then see what he says and take it from there.
It can be that you can’t date, because you are too messed up. It’s possible that you could try to keep it light for a while. It’s not entirely unlikely that you can work it out together either, as in Tarn’s example. But you have to trust the guy enough to explain all this to him, in that case. If you can’t do that, then you need to let him go:-(
And it might be that he can’t face it, it doesn’t make him a bad guy. It’s not easy to work on a relationship under these circumstances – your damned ex will get in the way and be a part of it all in a way you’d rather not and it’s not entirely fair on the new partner either – which is why you need to talk. All the time.
It’s doable, I did it, we’ve talked and talked and talked and fortunately my new love was (and is) stubborn and loving enough to give me time when I freaked. She’s got some serious (but different) issues too, but I’m stubborn as well, and we talk a lot, and try to listen to each other as well. And here we are, eight years later, working together and helping each other because it’s worth working on:-)
h my goodness, I echo what Sars and most of the commenters are saying. I could have written this letter six years ago. Only I was only married for seven months, and he may have been cheating, but I didn’t know about it. And we had kittens, but no kids. And STILL I could have written almost everything your saying. That kind of abandonment, that violence towards your heart, smashing it with no regard, that FUCKS with you. Big-time. After only a short period of time, that fucks with you, and you were in it for 12 years, had children with this man. It is not your fault that you are feeling like this now. And I agree with everyone who said your therapist gave you really bad advice.
I didn’t start dating again because I thought it would be healthy, or because I had a therapist who encouraged me to; I dated again because I was Band-Aiding bullet wounds, and it was a vicious cycle that left me even worse for the wear. Initially, the attention and the emotional validation is a high, but it’s a crash-y high, and exactly like you described. I’ve been there. Lying on my bathroom floor in tears because I thought I loved the guy I was dating 3 months after the ex-husband left, feeling those exact same feelings you are describing. You are not alone. But you probably shouldn’t be dating. This guy sounds decent, better than the ones I dated after my ex! But still, you are better than those sick feelings of despair and craziness. You don’t have to feel that way; this WILL get better, and you will heal.
I really don’t mean to project/make it all about me, but I just empathize so much and really want you to know there is hope, so I’ll give you one more bit of my own experience. After one guy I dated still hadn’t taken me on a date in a year, and the other guy I dated cheated on me with a cokehead, and I stupidly went back to my ex after getting the chance, and then got back with the non-date guy (lol, sigh), I was like WTF is wrong with me?!?! Called up non-date guy and broke it up finally for real and made a date with myself for that Saturday – nachos with fresh avocado and a “That ‘70s Show†DVD marathon, and decided to enjoy something silly and fun that had nothing to do with angst, and everything to do with being freaking gentle with myself for a change. Then I put dating out of my mind until I was absolutely ready, so not needy that I was shockingly a little surprised to find myself reluctant to leave my man-less existence behind.
You can do it; you will find romantic love again if it’s what you need. Just know you don’t need it right now, and as corny as it is, love yourself. You’ve been hurt enough, don’t keep hurting yourself.
My deepest apologies for not proofing before sending. The missing O is bad enough but your instead of you’re? Horror!
Confused here!
I wish I would have been up to commenting earlier, but it turns out I’ve been sick. And not that I’m not still bonkers, but the stuff the doc gave me to fix what was wrong (hormonal junk) has seemed to have a positive effect on my ridiculously dramatic mood swings. I still have them, but they’re way milder and much less scary.
I appreciate so thoroughly everything that you all had to say! While some of it didn’t seem quite accurate, it was *all* useful. I am still seeing this guy, but am definitely (really) going to discuss dialing things back a bit, and explaining why, because he’s getting way serious, way fast, and it makes me uncomfortable.
I’m hesitant to find a new therapist, b/c I don’t want to spend months going over all the history; but don’t worry, I won’t go back to the one I mentioned in this letter. I have a choice of maybe 4 that I’ve seen over the years I was married, and only stopped with each b/c my ex forced me to. One of them might be a good choice, and I’ll make some calls.
I especially loved that so many of you who have been in similar situations were so willing to share your stories! Makes me feel so much less screwed up, and totally able to see the light at the end of the tunnel.
Love you Sars, Love you tomatillos (Do commenters here have a collective name? I can’t remember!)
Thanks!
I TOTALLY feel all of this. Especially:
– being really focused on being “okay”, both wanting to actually be okay and wanting to seem okay to myself and others;
– having bad therapy!
– not wanting to find another therapist and have to start over with aaaaaalll that explaining
– being with abusive asshats who fucked me up more thoroughly than I had personally been fucked up before
– thinking there was something wrong with me but not knowing what – and, in retrospect, I didn’t have a strong enough sense of boundaries or of what was healthy to have any real, accurate sense of how much was wrong
I was abused in many ways while I was growing up. It took me years to admit it/figure it out, it broke down my sense of boundaries pretty thoroughly, it set me up to get together with people who would abuse me in their own ways later on, and, ESPECIALLY, it made it really, really hard for me to know how to ask for what I needed, set boundaries, or have any internal trust that I was okay, safe, and a real worthwhile person that other people could love in a safe, consistent, trustworthy way.
I consider myself super-super-lucky to have had a good friend who was an alcoholic and whose therapist somehow led him to AA. Because what I saw, as he worked the steps, was that his life and his emotions and his relationships totally transformed. And I wanted what he had so bad, but I wasn’t an alcoholic – so I researched other 12-step programs and found Codependents Anonymous. And then other programs, including COSA, which is specifically for people who have been cheated on or affected in some other way by someone’s compulsive sexual behavior. It’s kind of like Al-Anon, I assume (not having been there) except it’s around sex.
I’ve done therapy, with a wide range of therapists from AWFUL to great. And I’ve done 12-step programs around everything from relationships to money. In my experience, good therapy can be great; you get names for what is happening, medication if you need it, you learn to trust another person, you get reality checks, the voice of sanity is there helping you slowwwwly re-calibrate and giving you guidance toward that.
But I’ll take 12-step over it any day because you get all of that (except medication), but you get it from a ton of people who have already been through the deep dark woods and found their way out and can tell you exactly how they did it. And you’re equal to them, and treated totally as an equal person of equal worth with equal power – which for me meant that I didn’t have that triggering power dynamic that I struggled with in therapy, where I wanted to do whatever they wanted me to do because it must be right because they were The Therapist!
Mostly, though, I like it because the steps look so deceptively short and simple, and really they are pretty simple, but taken all together they scrape away all of the plaque that has built up inside of me, all the self-sabotaging insecure confused squiggly crap that has ever stood in my way, just systematically scrape it all off. And in the process, everything inside me becomes clear, and I rediscover (or discover for the first time) where all my power lies and how to claim it, and stand squarely in the middle of myself and have amazing, fearless, transformative relationships with myself and others.
I mean, today I am married to an amazing woman who is also in recovery, in a totally honest and deeply loving relationship, where we – and this is going to sound insane – never fight because we totally get where our own triggers and fears and resentments and our parts in things end and the other person begins and once we’ve finished taking care of our own stuff there’s no fighting left to do. And when I started going to COSA meetings, I definitely absolutely NEVER wanted to date EVER, EVER AGAIN because my last relationship had been so freaking traumatic. And I totally definitely should not have been dating right then, either. But I got from there to here, five years later, happy joyous and free (and my marriage is just a cherry on that cupcake).
I guess I feel luckiest just for knowing that twelve-step programs exist, and that they work (powerfully), and that they work and exist for our relationships with ourselves and our relationships with others and our relationships with food and our relationships with our bodies and our relationships with work and… everything else that there is. Because mostly, what’s out there in the public eye is just therapy or medication or both, and for me those have not been anywhere near as powerful.
I linked to it from my name, too, but it’s cosa-recovery.org for anyone who wants to explore it.