The Vine: May 7, 2008
Dear Sars:
I’ve got a sticky situation and I need help coming up with something good to tell my friend. Here’s the thing. My girlfriend of almost 20 years has been begging me to come out to her house in the northeast to visit. I live in the midwest. Under normal circumstances I would love to come see her and her family, however things are far from normal over there. They are having serious marital issues.
Long story short, the husband has been emotionally abusive to my girlfriend for quite some time now. They live in the sticks, and have been getting more and more isolated as time goes on. She has been telling me some of what’s been happening, but we all know that what she’s admitting to me and what’s actually happening on a daily basis are two separate things. Her husband does not know that I know about his life with my friend. He certainly does not think he’s abusive; he has lots of reasons why things are the way they are, like if my friend could just be better and stop screwing up all the time, things would be just fine.
I’ve literally begged my friend to go to a counselor, by herself or with her husband, to get help. It’s a no-go so far. All of these things and more have made it so that I do not want to visit. I am EXTREMELY uncomfortable in going to her house and pretending I don’t notice all the things that are happening. It’s not that I couldn’t keep my mouth shut, because I can. It’s just that it would piss me off, and if I’m going to be living with them for a week I don’t know if I could emotionally deal with it. I think I’ll be looking for things that are going wrong or snide comments et cetera.
But am I being a crappy friend by not going? Should I give a sweet lie about why I can’t get out there? Should I just suck it up and go? Should I tell her exactly why I don’t want to go? My husband’s vote is to lie. I need some other advice before I make a decision.
Reluctant Traveler
Dear Trav,
I can sort of see your husband’s point — it’s hard to see what good would come of telling the truth in this case — but she’s your friend, and you should tell her the truth. “Friend, I would really love to see you and your family, but based on what you’ve told me about your husband and that relationship, I just really won’t feel comfortable staying with you. I’m sorry.”
There is another solution provided you can find a hotel or bed-and-breakfast near her home; that way, you can visit her, but you’ll have your own space to retreat to. But if the only choice is to stay with her and to spend what is supposed to be a “vacation” either witnessing her husband’s toxic behavior, or bracing for it even if he does behave himself in the end, I think you have every right to speak truthfully to your friend on that point — and to hope that maybe this is the conversation that turns the light bulb on over her head.
Abusive partners count on this, kind of — on isolating their victims from their support networks, and on the friends and family not speaking frankly about what they see going on, but rather removing themselves “politely” from the situation so as not to cause trouble or offense. I’m not saying you have an obligation to tell her what’s what, but her husband is a horse’s ass, and you both deserve better than to spend a long weekend with that.
Hi Sars,
I’m 31 and my boyfriend and I have been together for four years. One of the many things I love about him is his family. His parents have been married forever and they’re just really nice and warm and friendly and relatively normal (so are his older brother and sister and their spouses/kids). His dad is sort of this warm, jolly guy when he’s on, although he usually talks about serious stuff (politics, art, et cetera) and is generally great.
Somehow, though, he got into the habit of pecking me on the lips when we hug hello and goodbye. We live a few states away from them but see them about five times a year. I’m not an especially touchy-feely person and it makes me pretty uncomfortable. I like to think that I’m assertive with strangers but I’m totally non-confrontational when it comes to people I’m close to. I can’t imagine saying something to him, and it’s not like it’s a huge deal, but it does bother me enough that I’m asking you for advice, so that means something, right?
Even though I work in marketing, I’m really bad at catchy signatures
Dear Catch,
Turn your face away. Even if you have to turn it far enough that it feels really uncomfortable and pointed, keep turning it so that the pecks land on your cheek instead.
A peck on the lips isn’t a big deal to some people, and it’s probably not to your boyfriend’s father; to other people, like you, it is, and if he presses the point, say exactly that to him — you know he doesn’t mean anything by it, but you don’t dig it, so: cheek, please.
Dear Sars,
A friend of mine is getting married next summer and has turned into the proverbial Bridezilla. Every conversation with her somehow comes around to her wedding. She acts as if she’s superior to her unmarried female friends, because she is engaged and we are not. She prefers to be extremely organized, so she’s only been engaged for two months and the whole wedding is completely planned for next year. She’s easily offended if anyone offers an opinion on any aspect of her wedding, even jokingly. It’s gotten to the point where I don’t even want to speak to her about anything, because I’ll have to hear about minute details of the wedding.
I have no idea how to deal with this. Most of my married friends were already married when I met them. The two Bridezillas I have known in the past weren’t around me every day. One was only like this with her bridal party, thankfully not including me, and the other lived across the country, so I didn’t have to deal with it on a daily basis. But I work with Bridezilla, which means that I can expect another nine months of this, every single day. It’s not only me, either. We have several colleagues who are equally frustrated with her behaviour and we’re completely at a loss.
Do you (or any of your readers) have any suggestions for tactfully dealing with Bridezilla? I don’t want to either alienate her or get so frustrated that it’s not worth being her friend anymore, but if it’s this bad after only two months, I can’t imagine what it’ll be like by July.
Bridezilla’s Sounding Board
Dear Bored,
A bride has, it seems to me, two choices: talk about the wedding all the time, or get defensive when an opinion is offered. She really can’t do both. It’s a very important event, of course, to her, but no one who isn’t in the wedding party really cares that much. I don’t mean that negatively, because it goes both ways; what people do care about is that the couple is happy, so if the bride selects a processional we think is a little tired, we won’t really remember that when all is said and done. If she’s happy with it, great, see you at the bar. But a monologue about floral arrangements is…you know. A monologue about floral arrangements. A conversation about floral arrangements is different, but the other thing is, you’re at work, and if she’s going to take up your time with that topic, she’s going to have to do it politely.
So — sing it with me if you know the words — it’s time to start changing the subject. She gets five minutes on the wedding; then you segue into something else, or leave the room. She bites your head off, you ask her not to take that tone with you when it is she who brought up the subject.
You can also try the old Overly Caring Passive-Aggression, if you like. “Bridezilla, are you okay? Because you seem pretty stressed out about the wedding — I mean, you talk about it a lot. Like, really a lot. And you seem to get really angry with us when we join in, sort of out of proportion to what we actually said — is everything okay? …Oh, good. Great, then. Just checking. So, about those TPS reports.”
If gentler measures don’t work, someone is going to have to give it to her sugar-free, to wit: she can bore you or act a bitch, not both.
Tags: boys (and girls) etiquette friendships the fam workplace
@catch – Sars is spot-on, as usual.
My in-laws are kissers, while my family are huggers. I figured out early on to just turn my head. After a few years of getting a mouthful of hair, (I had a lot of it) they learned to aim for the cheek in the first place.
As far as I know, no one ever took offense.
For catch, has she tried simply asking something along the lines of “Would it offend you horribly if I asked to you kiss me on the cheek?” If the dad is really a great guy, it probably won’t.
Like the reference to Office Space, Sars!!
Catch- I feel your pain. Mine is to a lesser degree for sure, though. I have a group of friends that is very huggy. I mean, I’m a big hugger with folks I only see a few times a year, but this group of friends hugs hello and good-bye when we see each other every other week.
I’m not saying there is anything wrong with it- but I’m Midwestern- we just aren’t big huggers. They also did it from day one when I didn’t know them very well which is what made me uncomfortable. I finally jokingly mentioned that ‘Midwesterners don’t hug’ when it fit into a conversation we were having and one of them said something like, ‘man, we must really bug you then’ and I got the chance that, yeah, it did bother me a bit at first, etc.
I guess I’m saying that sometimes you can find a way to clear the air without making a big deal about it or making the other party feel bad. The face turning thing is for sure the best idea, but if that doesn’t work, maybe you can pull off a way to say something without it being a production. My friends now always tease me when we hug, but I’ve also noticed that they respect my sense of personal space more now, too.
Re: Bridezilla- yikes. I lived through three weddings and then all my friends’ first pregnancies (and their second as well, but it’s the first one where it’s the only thing they ever talk about) and the non-stop talk is a tad annoying even when they aren’t being assy about it like this girl.
I’m with changing the subject or even just leaving the room everytime she starts talking about the wedding. I don’t really think you should have to sit and listen to all the boring ass details that no one cares about but her. I mean, I can drone on and on about how awesome my dog is, but since I realize that I’m the only one that cares about his awesomeness, I limit my blathering to five minutes or less. It’s just polite and it sounds like she needs a reality check/reminder about what the meaning of polite interaction with others is.
regarding Trav – I am so sorry. That is the worst situation. I’ve been there, and remember all too well the horrible realization that I had no influence over my abused friend. She, like your friend, was just consumed by the day-to-day nightmare of her life and marital situation.
I hope that you visit – and stay in a nearby hotel — or have a very open conversation with her. She clearly is really needing some face time with you, and like Sars pointed out -her husband is probably counting on the discomfort and alienation to keep her away from her support systems.
Re: Reluctant Traveler
If this visit is meant to be vacationy, then I agree with Sars. (I opted for the nearby hotel when visiting battling marrieds of my own acquaintance, and it really helped. A lot.)
But Reluctant might consider that her presence in GF’s lair might well help as kind of an intervention, either by lending some ‘it really doesn’t have to be this way’ perspective, or by literally having her back so she can sack up and take some positive steps.
I totally get RT not wanting to take such a thing on, though. And if GF isn’t hearing it at all, then, the goal would be for RT to mind after her ownself as Sars suggests.
My family has always been lip kissers. I didn’t think anything of it until my then-boyfriend/now husband mentioned it. It all came to light in the lead-up to our wedding, since I was greeting lots of family. The funniest part was that I got so confused during the receiving line that I started kissing people on the lips who had previously only been given hugs – oops!
For Catch – I found that some serious stank-breath and/or a well-timed sneeze/cough worked WONDERS for the Kiss Hello. Nobody said a thing, and it doesn’t happen anymore. Do they think I have halitosis and/or tuberculosis? Not my problem!
For Bored – You could try Sars’ suggestions above or go for Theatre of the Absurd. “Oh, wow – you’re having lilies in your bouquet? I went to a wedding last year where, instead of flowers, the bride carried a basket of newborn kittens! It was awesome! Oh, your colors are peach and teal? My cousin’s best friend got married last month and used metallic orange and baby blue. It sounds weird but was totally classy.” Maybe you can freak her out or out-bore her. Either way, there has got to be a way to make it amusing to you, at the very least.
For Catch- If it makes you feel any better, my bf’s family are all from a background where the double-cheek-greeting-kiss is common- but it’s cirumstantial as well. Years later, I still don’t know the rules of when and where and who considers me close enough to the family (through the bf) for a kiss the first time they meet me and who might go for the handshake then but cheek kiss later, or who’s going to go to 2 or 3 times or what. It makes greetings pretty awkward because I’m always hanging back trying to see what the other person does. And to top it all off, like you, I’m definitely the no-touchy-feely type. Eventually I started to try doing the “guy hug” to head it off- the handshake pulled in for a back pat.
Heh. I think I’m going to adopt “act a bitch”. :)
@Reluctant Traveler
One reason to go, would be the potential to witness the bad behavior and point it to your friend in very direct terms (aka, when Husband said X, that was bad). What she’ll do with that info, I don’t know and that seems a scary sort of responsibility to take on.
Actually, telling her the truth of why you won’t come may be an eye opener in itself for her about the situation she is in. Maybe offer to have her come to visit you in exchange?
@ Traveler – your friend probably wants you to stay with her because it would force Husband in to “being good”. I have been there/done that. The jerky guy (not necessarily abusive, but an ass for sure) will play nice in front of company, which buys everyone a respite. Except you. Inside, you’ll be even more uncomfortable knowing that this “nice guy” is really such a jerk. At least that’s how it was for me.
I would go with Sars’s advice and stay in a hotel. Make something up if you have to – a bad back that won’t let you sleep on a sofa, an allergy to hamsters, etc. It’s easier to white lie your way out of the house and have an escape if you need it. Plus, she might also enjoy a place to come and visit you and hang out w/out husbands and kids and housework.
A few years ago, I was introduced to a distant relative of my boyfriend’s. She said, “In my family, we kiss on the lips,” and before I could react, she grabbed my face with both hands and planted a wet, slobbery, lipsticky kiss on my lips. OMG!!!! I am not a touchy person anyway, but I think this might have been repulsive by any standards. It still makes me shudder. I am unlikely to encounter this person again, but I’ve been preparing defensive maneuvers ever since, just in case.
Another descendant of lip-kissers here. My parents are always freaking my friends out. The extreme head-turn totally works. They may never actually get the hint, but they won’t be offended. They think it’s normal, and aren’t trying to mess with you.
I’m still trying to get used to the non-huggers I know. I try, but sometimes I forget. Hazard of being raised Californian, I guess.
My parents do the lip kissing thing too, which never struck me as weird, until I realized that none of my friends’ parents do it. But I promise I don’t do it to anyone else. Not even a kiss on the cheek from me.
You know what did seem weird to me? Hugging coworkers and board members. I worked at an organization for years where after each board meeting everyone went around hugging before they headed off to the airport. I never got used to it.
The thing with the peck on the lips is…either (1) they do it because it’s their habit and it has never occurred to them that you’d mind, in which case the head-turn is good because your REAL problem is bringing it up without embarrassing them; or (2) they do it because they think it’s how families should behave and they’re put off by anyone thinking different, in which case the head-turn is good because it doesn’t give them any choice; or (3) they’re crazy intrusive jerks and/or way too sensitive, in which cases the head-turn is good because it’s less hostile than punching them in the face. I think there’s about a 99 percent chance that it’s (1), given everything else you’ve said, so the point is to get across to them kindly without making them feel embarrassed.
@Linda: “Less hostile than punching them in the face” cracked me UP. Thanks for the giggle. :-o
@Trav – could the two of you meet somewhere in the middle? (Colorado is lovely…) I see nothing wrong with telling her why you won’t stay with them, but she likely needs to talk to someone. Had a friend going through the same, and I will never just turn my head & keep my mouth shut – not my strong suit anyway – because my friend may never recover from the damage he caused to her faith in herself. But it’s a fine line, you don’t want her to get all up in arms & defend this bullying piece of shit, so I’d suggest you just keep pointing out that she’s wonderful & she deserves better. Her self-esteem is probably torn to shreds. It’s so hard to watch, I feel for you both. No matter what you do, this won’t be much of a vacation for you, though.
@Catch – My daughter’s father-in-law is a kiss-on-the-lips guy, and while it took me a few visits with the in-laws to get used to it, I now think it’s just so sweet. That whole family is extraordinarily normal & wonderful & so good to my girl that I got over the startlement.
But a head-turn oughtta do it.
@Bored – Could you out-bore her with her own wedding? Just keep asking questions…”Oh, those are lovely. Where did you get them? Do they come in other colors? Did you find them online? Are they made in America? How many did you order? How much did they cost? Could you get a discount if you’d ordered more? Where can I get them? Do they have them locally? What other ones did you consider? How did you choose this kind? Were the others more expensive? How many types did you consider? Do they have different embellishments? Do they add cheese? What type of cheese? Have you heard of British Cheddar? Were any hens involved in the manufacture?” Blah blah blah – maybe she’ll bore herself!
Or just keep your iPod on all the time. Gah.
Whoops, that got way too long! Sorry!
@Catch –
I agree with Sars on the head turn, but you can also try to go on the offensive.
Before he can kiss you, you swoop in and give him a peck on the cheek, then give him a sqeeze and pull away quickly.
Its not as much of an obvious snub like a head turn, and it gets the whole greeting awkwardness over quickly and fairly embarassment free.
Thanks for all the helpful replies! @ Linda: you’re right — this is definitely a case of #1. My mother’s second husband falls into the #3 category. Those of us who are repulsed by him (most of the rest of our family) have taken to giving him the heisman.
My stepfather’s family are lip-kissers, a fact which GREATLY grossed me out when I first started going to family gatherings with them. My great-aunt is the biggest offender, but they all do it. I’ve resigned myself that it’s their thing, that they don’t mean any harm, and I generally do what Courtney suggested above and sort of preemptively go for the cheek kiss/hug. Nobody minds.
It’s always awkward at those gatherings, or it especially was at the beginning, because while my immediate family has always been very affectionate (though not so much with the kissing), I was never that close to my other relatives — didn’t have that many of them, for one thing; and the ones I had were reserved WASPs. So going to some barbecue with 20 people at it that I didn’t know that well, and suddenly being expected to KISS THEM ALL both when I arrived and when I left — it made awkward teenage me very uncomfortable. I’m used to it now — plus I actually *know* them all now and have genuine affection for them — but at the beginning, yergh. Who is this old lady and why is she trying to make out with me?
For RT – I had the same situation (a good friend with an abusive husband) and I solved the visiting problem the way Sars suggests – stay at a hotel, and minimize contact with the husband. There was NO WAY I would stay in the same house with him.
Trouble is, the friend finally divorced the a-hole after twenty-something years, only to hook up four months after the divorce with another guy who is just as controlling and abusive. I guess that is what is familiar to her, and she must be getting something out of the deal (being “Mrs. Somebody”, having someone else make all her decisions, etc. etc.)
I do know my friend was profoundly uncomfortable with being single and dating. And by “profoundly uncomfortable” I mean panic-stricken. She’d married very young and had never been with a man before her husband. Old habits die hard. So I’m just sayin’, don’t expect your friend to see the light just because you stay in a hotel or even if you speak to her about it. You can lead a horse to water…
Sars, your advice to Bored about her Bridezilla friend is spot on. Nobody wants to think of themselves as a stressed-out bride – people like this girl will be even more bought into the ‘should be the happiest day of my life’ fiction than anybody. A gentle and consistent message along the lines of ‘whenever you mention it there seem to be stresses and problems – are you OK?’ should cause her to belt up.