The Vine: September 5, 2012
I’ve been with my boyfriend for 5 years, living together for 2+ of those years. Near the beginning of our relationship I broke up with him over a differing opinion on the topic of parenthood (I’ve never had any interest in children, he thinks it’s a waste of his life to not have one) but he felt it was a hasty decision on my part and that surely over time we could find neutral ground. I’m very willing to concede that my feelings on the topic may change (I’m 30, he’s 33) and I’m happy to keep an open mind.
In the last few years since that almost-breakup I still haven’t developed any biological clock to speak of. At times my feelings have been vocalized regarding some little cherub that reminds me why I feel the way I do, so I figured the boyfriend knew where I stood. Despite this he often talked about our future as in buying a house together, marriage, travel, hopefully early retirement etc. I assumed that because of his willingness to imagine a future with me when my feelings about being a mother were so clear, he had adopted a more neutral view on the topic.
A month or two ago he dropped a bombshell, saying essentially he doesn’t think he can ever marry me because of The Conflict but he has wanted to for several years now. I think the issue that brought all this to a head now is his mother. Isn’t it always? So Freudian. She has been recently diagnosed with a terminal illness (terminal meaning months at worst, few years at best) and the last month has been a flurry of hospitalizations, rehab centers, and acquiring financial and healthcare control over her. Unfortunately my boyfriend is the only one able to manage all this as his mother and father are divorced (not amicably) and his sibling lives across the country. His mother will be moving in with us shortly as she’s in a financial crisis besides her declining health and can no longer afford her apartment. On top of THAT, she has early-onset dementia (unrelated to her illness).
So now in addition to his old thoughts about life not being worth living without procreation, we can add wanting to immortalize his ill mother by passing on the family legacy in a child. I get it, I do. He’s using the notion of someday having a child as a way to ease the grieving process over his mother. I may not agree with his coping tactics, but they’re real feelings to him and if they bring him some comfort, who am I to take that away?
Now I’m in a complete tailspin about how to handle this situation and my emotions. I realize he’s in a horrible place mentally/emotionally and now isn’t the time to push him about any life decisions when his mother’s situation is more than enough to absorb 100% of his attention. I’m willing to put this issue on the proverbial back burner for a while until this crisis passes — though the timeline for that is uncertain at best. I guess my question is — is this Conflict always a deal-breaker for relationships? Realistically I know it’s unlikely for him to wake up tomorrow and announce how amazing a child-free existence could be, let us go forth and NOT multiply. But if he could just say that it’s something he thinks would enrich his life but ultimately we both need to feel comfortable with the decision, and if I never do despite my best efforts at keeping my heart and mind open to the idea, a life with me is what matters…that’s all I want. Is that unrealistic?
And what about the alternative — if I loved him enough, wouldn’t I do this for him? Oh trust me, I’ve mulled that one over many a time! I tend to think it’s a slightly bigger sacrifice for me to do something I don’t want that compromises my body/health/lifestyle and more importantly involves the happiness of a new person in the equation. If he said moving to Ecuador would make him happy, I wouldn’t be thrilled with that notion but it’s only my happiness at stake so I could make it work. But a child deserves to have two adoring parents, not one that wants him/her and another that is just trying to make the dad happy.
I guess I’m just bothered that I feel like I’m offering a lot to him — I can promise a lifetime of love, compassion, trust, comfort — and I’m extending that to his mother. And I can promise to keep my heart and mind open to the idea of someday having a family and should I eventually have that desire there’s no one I’d rather do that with than him. I’m taking on the lion’s share of his mother’s care as I’m the only one who does the housework and cooking and his job often takes him away for weeks at a time. I don’t mean it to be a contest to see who can compromise more for the other, but even with all that is it wrong to want a little commitment from him? At the end of the day I don’t think I’ll regret this upcoming challenging time with his mother — even if our relationship doesn’t survive she deserves some compassion and dignity, but I can’t help but long for a little something in return.
Mother Theresa I’m Not
Dear Theresa,
I have to tell you, I don’t like this situation with his mother at all. I don’t like it, I don’t like the way you talk about it…the whole thing reads to me as a too-tight, acid-washed pair of Bad Idea Jeans. I mean, you say you don’t mean it to be a contest, and I believe you, but it’s totally going to turn into that; it’s already turned into that. Well, not that exactly, but part of that — you’ve got it set up as a test, and if you pass it, if you don’t interrogate his Conflict and you stand by him at a difficult time and you take the best possible care of his ailing mother, he’ll marry you, even though you don’t want kids and he does.
And that’s the bottom line. You don’t want kids and he does. Yeah yeah, I know, you’ll keep an open mind, if you’d do it with anyone you’d do it with him…I believe you there, too, or at least that you believe those things when you say them. But there is a huge, critical difference between “maybe I’ll want kids someday, who knows” and “I want to want kids, for your sake.” I have, for good or ill, a wealth of experience in saying vague you-never-know-ish things to buy time with a man I loved who wanted children, hoping he would change his own mind, or get accustomed enough to the idea to drop the subject — and in that experience, and also the experience of living in the world, the one who is pretty sure s/he doesn’t want kids is much more likely to change sides than the one who is pretty sure s/he does.
So, yes, this is a deal-breaker for him. What’s more, you know this. He’s made this as clear as he can. His feelings will not change. Yours might; then again, they might not, and you might not have spoken honestly to yourself about what you really want here. And as a side note, that is okay. Societal expectations make it very very difficult for a woman to say, without qualifying it, that she doesn’t want children — even to herself. Others will call that decision selfish, or assume that something is cold and broken inside her, or patronize her about finding the right man and then she’ll change her mind, and sometimes she thinks the world is right, that there is something wrong with her, that the cost of this preference is too high, and she worries that there is no man (or woman) and no place for her if she can’t at least pretend she wants a child of her own. And by “she” of course I mean that I did this, and if this isn’t your experience and you really do think you might do it, maybe, someday, that’s great, and if you’re not there yet with saying point-blank that this is not for you ever amen and really feeling like that’s just one more option and doesn’t make you a bad person (because it doesn’t, obvs), that’s fine too. It’s super-fraught, is my point, and super-hard to accept that wanting different things when the wanted “thing” is a child is not going to allow the relationship to survive.
But: it isn’t. I’m sorry. No doubt the readers will have exceptions, but I have never seen this particular conflict resolve itself without a breakup. I know he’s having a hard time and I know you love him and I know you don’t want to cash out if you might change your mind about a baby and end up losing him for nothing — but it’s not fair to either of you to keep going like this, in my opinion. It’s not fair to him, in the event that you never do come around to the idea; mostly, it’s not fair to you, feeling like he’s only staying because he thinks you’ll change your mind, feeling like you’re kind of lying to keep him close, taking care of a broke and dying parent in your home in the hopes that that’ll change his mind. It won’t. One has nothing to do with the other.
You need to do two things. First, and immediately, you need to talk to him about hiring help for you with his mother. He needs to hire a day nurse at the least, a qualified professional who can handle his mom’s meds and understands her various conditions and challenges. This is too much to expect you to handle on your own.
And right after that, you need to tell him in so many words why he has to get you that help — that you feel like, by shouldering the entire burden yourself, you will be trying to prove to him that you are still Good Enough for him even if you don’t want a kid, and you have realized that that’s kind of fucked up and won’t solve the central problem. And then you sit there and don’t say anything and see what he says, which will be one of the more brutal periods of silence you will ever endure but hang in there with it because you gotta do it. And then the two of you have real talk about what’s going on here. “But he’s got so much other st–” Tough. He is proposing to go out of town on business and leave you, who he will not marry because of this issue, to care for his ailing mother by yourself but not altering his own work schedule. He can spend ten minutes getting real.
I’ll give him a partial pass on that, given the stress he’s under, but the situation as you describe it is almost untenable, and I don’t see it improving any. Be truthful with him now, today, and if you have to leave, forgive yourself and go. Your other choice is to hold your breath waiting for a question that never comes; or another one you can’t answer the way he wants; and resenting him till kingdom come. No good. Lance the boil.
Tags: boys (and girls) the fam
God, every path out of this one leads through the thorns.
I totally sympathize. I too don’t want and have never wanted kids. I really lucked out in that my parents never pressured me (it helped that my sister did want kids and now has three) and my husband doesn’t either. But that pressure is always there–“you don’t want kids? Well, what the hell are you planning to do with yourself?”
Sars is 1000% percent right. Please listen to her, even though it will be the hardest thing you’ve ever done. Even if you end up breaking up and moving out and you feel like you’re abandoning him at the worst possible time and you are the most hideous person in the history of forever.
You’re not. You are two people at a devastating crossroads in your lives, and every choice is painful, but PAINFUL DOES NOT MEAN WRONG.
It will hurt when you both finally lay down the reality cards and realize you are fundamantally parallel on a life issue. It will hurt if you have to leave him because of it. It will just hurt like hell, like someone’s knitting a sweater with your intestines, like someone is punching you in the heart. But it doesn’t mean either one of you is wrong. It means you want different things and neither of you can change your mind on those things.
You aren’t being punished by this pain. It’s not because you’re selfish or cold or “not woman enough” or any of that garbage. Pain just comes and blocks out the sun sometimes. But all eclipses pass.
I moderate a childfree forum — for people who know they don’t want children and also for people who are still undecided/”on the fence” and don’t know one way or another if they want children — and this scenario comes up ALL THE TIME. One partner wants kids, the other doesn’t or is unsure. And I have to say, no child should be brought into this world unless it is actively WANTED. I think it is a grave mistake to even consider having a child unless you are 100% completely on board with the idea, that you have decided to have a child because YOU actively want one and feel you can give that child a good life. A child should never be brought into the world because of guilt or compromise. Life isn’t always rosy, and you can’t depend on the cliches of “oh you’ll love it once it’s yours.” I have read too many stories of mothers for whom that didn’t happen, mothers who regret being mothers even while they love their children, who have regrets. Kids are very good at picking up on things like that, and it’s not fair to them. This is a human life you’re talking about.
Sara is absolutely right that there is intense pressure on women to want children and not even admit otherwise to themselves. But you have to know yourself and what’s right for you in this instance.
The flip side is true, too. If your boyfriend is absolutely set on having a child, cannot imagine his life without a child, then he shouldn’t have to compromise, either. This is one of the biggest dealbreakers out there, because you can’t give a child back, you can’t do a test run and decide nope not for me, you can’t say oh the parent who wanted the kid can take care of it. Once you have a kid, that’s it. Some people are undecided enough that they’re willing to stay with partners who don’t want kids — there are a number of people for whom that’s happened on the forum — but he would need to truly be okay with that, and from your letter I don’t think he is given the history (and not just what all is going on with his mom now).
Apologies to Sars for my overly-fast fingers mis-typing her name. Oops. (Any way to edit that?)
‘if I loved him enough, wouldn’t I do this for him?’ NO. You love him enough to be honest. You may have to love him enough to let him go, unless he can genuinely change his mind. There are topics on which you cannot just agree to disagree, and this is one of them.
And I agree with Sars, you need some help with the mother situation.
No advice, but holy fucking hell is this paragraph ever spot on: “Societal expectations make it very very difficult for a woman to say, without qualifying it, that she doesn’t want children — even to herself…”
I WELCOMED serious health problems I’ve had that would make pregnancy really difficult because it was another excuse I could add to the arsenal to explain why I don’t want kids. Yet it’s still not enough for some people.
I agree with Sars. I was in a similar situation. My ex and I had a child together. She wanted more; I was happy with just one. After years of negotiation, we split. She had two more children, and I stuck with just the one. And both of us were right all along about what was right for us. My guess is neither of you will feel differently, and, since you can’t have half a kid, there really isn’t a compromise.
I don’t have a lot of personal experience with the central question here, but I think what you are setting yourself up for here (and what you may kind of already be doing) is a situation where you’re basically agreeing to anything and everything in order to make up for not wanting a baby. It sounds like you’re already managing the household by yourself, basically. And now here comes Not Your Mother-in-Law, with whom you will apparently be left by yourself for days at a time. Home care for a terminal illness is an enormous, gut-wrenching undertaking. You cannot overestimate how difficult and draining – emotionally and physically – it is going to be. (Certainly it is not a situation into which one ought to insert a brand-new child, however wanted.) So you’re doing these things, and what’s going to happen, I suspect, is that you’ll agree to do more things, and make more sacrifices, and in the end, Mr. Theresa is still going to want a baby, and the fact that you’re compromising on everything and he’s compromising on nothing is going to lead to you feeling resentful and angry towards both him and yourself, and… that’s just toxic. I don’t have anything to add to Sars’s advice, but just: if you feel like you’re already agreeing to whatever in order to make up for not wanting the baby, and it sounds like you sort of might be, save yourself (some of) the heartache and have the conversation now, before you reach a point where you can’t even stand the sight of the guy. Good luck, and I’m sorry. (And, for the record: IT IS OKAY NOT TO WANT TO HAVE A BABY. It’s a hard position to hold, but in the end, it’s up to you, and if you don’t want kids, not having them is the most grown-up, responsible, unselfish decision you could possibly make.)
I also have been through the “I don’t want kids, so there must be something wrong with me” thing. Fortunately, my husband is and always has been cool with that. There was a period when we thought maybe we would, but then our life circumstances changed radically and quickly, so there wasn’t a day that went by when I didn’t think, “I’m so glad I’m not putting a kid through this,” or, “I’m so glad I can do what I’m doing because I don’t have a kid.” I’m not anti-kid at all; I definitely think humans should keep the species going, but it’s not for me. (All other issues aside, our genetics alone would likely result in a lot of problems and pain for any children.)
On occasion, I idly thought, “Maybe I would like a kid more than I think I would.” But then I had the most important realization: there’s no way I could fake liking a kid I didn’t want 100% of the time for the rest of my life. And any kid of mine would be sharp enough to realize that, and that would be terrible.
Long story short (too late!),I care enough about my hypothetical children not to have them.
If he’ll leave you with the lion’s share of the caregiving for his mother, you’ll end up with more than one lion’s share for any kids that come into the picture. If he’s out of town when Mom needs meds, he’ll most likely be out of town when the baby has a fever. If he’s leaving Mom to you, any child would be even more your responsibility, because he had you at DNA. If he won’t help with his Mom, who you’re not related to, he will expect even more to fall your way with the kid. If he really wants a kid with you, he needs to be showing that he’s going to move mountains to make it as easy as possible for the two of you to raise a kid, and he’s doing the exact opposite.
Do not walk, run.
After years of saying loudly and proudly that I didn’t want kids, I married a man with two kids from a previous marriage, and we have custody of them a little over half the time.
They are very nice little people (they’re 7 and 10), and I sincerely believe their lives are better because I’m in them. I love their father and, mostly because of that, I love them, too. Because of my job and some of my extracurricular interests, I’m able to introduce them to things their mom and dad wouldn’t, and to give them some fun opportunities they seem to appreciate. I sew their Halloween costumes. I take them to gymnastics and run 5ks with them and sign them up for sports camps. I read them books I loved as a child. I try to facilitate the creation of traditions and inside jokes, things that don’t seem to emerge quite as organically in a split-custody household. I mention these things to make clear that I’m involved in their lives in a lot of positive ways. I was raised to believe love is a verb, and I try to live that way.
That said, it is sweet relief to send them to their mother’s house. I am not a maternal woman, and having stepkids has not changed that. I fake it a lot more than I make it. If you stay with this guy and he wears you down to the point where you have kids, you’ll wind up doing the same thing. To paraphrase the great Joni Mitchell, you’ll miss your clean white living and your carefree kid-free life for the rest of your existence.
Don’t do it. I am not sorry I have stepkids–they’re worth the effort and so is their father–but I would never in a million years have any of my own. I say that with even more certainty now, knowing how much work they really are.
Lianne, if you want to give us the link to your forum, I suspect there are quite a few of us (okay… possibly just me?) who would like to check it out… :)
Other than that.. yeah, what Sars said. I think by staying with him you’re just postponing the inevitable… which, if you’re okay with that, that’s your call, but if it were me and I saw that the relationship had a finite life span, I’d leave before I become his mother’s caretaker. You’re not a bad person, he’s not a bad person, you’re just different and want different things and that is okay. …Okay, except the “I want to marry you, but won’t Unless You Change, btw, here, take care of my mom” bit… that’s kind of a dick move. Maybe that’s why I’d leave. That’s totally not fair of him.
It might be slightly weird to have pregnant lady chime in on this, but I found it interesting. My husband IS the noncommital kid of previously mentioned legend, meaning, while he is the younger of two siblings, his mother did not want to have kids and did anyway which . . . was not good. Now, don’t get me wrong – I am VERY happy that he exists because he is made of complete awesome, but holy crap does that stuff mess a kid up! His mother abandoned him and his brother as young children because she couldn’t deal with the idea that she had been “trapped” into parenthood, and instead of parenting him, ran off to live with her boyfriend hundreds of miles away. As a result of her departure, he and his brother were dumped with his dad . . . who was then married to a woman who ALSO didn’t like/want kids. So basically, he spent his entire childhood feeling unwanted and unloved. And for those of you who haven’t experienced it? Seeing your 25-year-old partner cry because his mother has openly said to him that he was a mistake? Is THE WORST.
Before I got pregnant with our son (due in January!) we talked A LOT about becoming parents and we decided it was something we both wanted to do. And it’s still hard. Even under awesome “I-love-you-and-this-new-life-we’ve-created-is-totally-amazing” circumstances, there are still days where both of us are cranky and tired and a little freaked out about this huge responsibility we are undertaking. Adding potential secret resentment to the mix because one of us didn’t want to do it would be a total disaster.
You are totally entitled to your doubt about wanting children. It is good that you are thinking about what you really want instead of just letting life happen to you. More adults should make thoughtful and informed decisions about there own lives – no one should get married or have kids “just because”. But seriously, consider why it is you have had these feelings and what they really mean for you. Opting to live someone else’s life dream as a default or as an alternative to being alone is going to hurt everyone involved and it’s better to know that and get out while you can than get sucked into an existance you don’t want for yourself.
There are many things in life that you can make the wrong decision about and it’s not the end of the world. If you get a crappy haircut, it’ll grow out. If you take the wrong job, you can find another. If you marry the wrong person, you can even divorce them. But kids? Kids are forever and if you are going to have one, be all in for them because they totally deserve it.
+1 x 1000 on what the wise Sars has said. Absolutely! I have known since I was very young (like, too young to even be able to procreate) that I don’t want children. I have definitely ended relationships over it. It’s just not fair to either person unless one person is will to CHANGE THEIR MIND, and NOT compromise. Because if someone is compromising, there will be resentment, and resentment over a child is way different than resentment over a mountain vacation versus a beach vacation.
Good luck!
Theresa, one thing to think about very very seriously re: having a child with this man is that this sentence will still be true: “I’m taking on the lion’s share of his mother’s care [the child care] as I’m the only one who does the housework and cooking and his job often takes him away for weeks at a time.” If he will blithely let you take on that burden for HIS mother, he will blithely let you take on that burden for YOUR(pl) child. (A large part of the reason why I’m “meh” on having kids is that, as far as I can tell from my non-parent perspective, it requires a huge amount of time and energy, and a major shift in priorities. Is it fair to make you, the one who doesn’t really want the end result, to pay most of the price for it?)
Jen S. is right that there’s no painless victory scenario in this situation. I wish you the best of luck in making the decision that’s best for you.
I just this week happened to see a reference to a life-coach type person who specializes in helping women decide whether they want children. I can’t personally vouch for her work, but perhaps something she wrote will help the letter writer. At any rate, her existence points out that it is a difficult enough question that it rates professional help.
http://www.randibuckley.com/maybe-baby/
The letter writer (and other couples who disagree over wanting children) are in terrible positions, because neither is at fault but they cannot compromise. That really sucks. For what is it worth, I think she was right the first time, when she broke up with him. Then he convinced to come back for three more years. My question is, why do that again? What if they waver now, he convinces her again, and they spend three more years? That is six years that he isn’t spending with his children, and three years that she isn’t building her life in the direction it must eventually take. (Worse, that she may have invested in demanding elderly care.)
I’m sorry, letter writer. I think you’re due for a rough patch. But I believe that a lot of people know whether they want kids and I trust that knowledge. Differing deep feelings on the issue are a deal-breaker.
Theresa,
Oh, this is just awful for you and you have my sympathies. One phrase caught my attention in particular: “early onset dementia”. Oh no. Oh very much no, not without help and not without actual legal rights! If you are staying, your boyfriend needs to sit down with you and clarify what he intends to do in terms of caring for his mother, and what he expects you to do. And that’s not you being selfish! People with dementia can be dangerous because they have no boundaries, and it would be unwise for you to be alone with his mom for “weeks at a time” under any circumstances, AND if he travels, he needs to leave you a power of attorney to make his mom’s medical decisions (for her safety) if you aren’t married. Do this part – very important.
As to “The Conflict” – it’s a dealbreaker. You don’t want it to be but it is. And Sars is right, you need to discuss it, the ugliest stuff too, and ASAP, because forgetting all the other stuff, you’re about to enter a seriously difficult time in your lives together and all the cards need to be on the table. Think of it this way; the commitment he wants you to make is for a lifetime, because once you have a child you have it. Game over. Marriage is a little easier to get out of if it doesn’t work – not that it isn’t painful, but you can walk away from another adult in a way you can’t with a baby. I think because you love each other you’ve both been playing the ostrich, but sadly the circumstances are such that you can’t continue that.
I wish you much luck and please let us know how you are doing.
Two more things, one of the kinda roundabout.
To Amy’s comment, about how much his caregiving for his Mom will reflect his caregiving for his children. I’ve come to believe that. I met a man who says he wants kids as much as I do. He says he wants to be stay-at-home. I’m interested and inclined to believe him. I got much more inclined to believe him when he shouldered all the barf clean-up for our new puppy. And took on all the night potty-training. And spares me the feeding, and tracks the puppy’s eating. He truly does the caregiving, faster than I could ask. So I agree with Amy.
***
When my mean grandmother died, I would tell people my grandmother died. They would be sympathetic and I would say “Well, it was my mean grandma.” I was surprised how very many people understood what I meant by “mean grandma”. Perhaps a third to 40% of people had a mean grandma. Thinking it over, I decided those women, the mean grandmas, were women who hadn’t wanted children but grew up in an era when children were the default, the absolute expectation. They didn’t want kids and the resulting parenting style echoed down through the generations. I very much hope that fewer people will understand “mean grandma” in future generations, because women won’t be forced into roles they don’t want. Please trust yourself. Your attitude on this stuff will matter for decades.
(Also, even if she breaks up with him now and in eight years wants kids with another man? She still isn’t wrong. She knows what she wants at the time.)
There has been a ton of great advice here; I am another person who does not want children. Fortunately, my partner feels the same, but I do think it’s a deal-breaker. And YES on what everyone has said about being his mother’s caretaker, too. I don’t know what discussions you’ve had with him about her care, but I would highly recommend having a professional home health aide involved.
Can I also add… you might want to be careful about your birth control, and his access to it, for a while. I have heard of cases in which men sabotaged a partner’s bc, thinking that if she just accidentally got pregnant, everything would be fine. Not saying he would do that, but he may not be thinking most clearly, given his mother’s recent diagnosis.
RC — Sure thing. :) http://www.thechildfreelife.com/forum/
The more the merrier, I didn’t post the link initially because I didn’t want to sound like I was responding to plug the site… but this topic is one that has come up a lot there and I’ve seen how it plays out numerous times. It’s never easy and it’s almost always a dealbreaker. I wish Theresa all the best and lots of fortitude.
First let me say I’m sorry you are in this situation on all sides. Jen S 1.0 is right that it’s thorns all the way around. It all sucks.
I took care of my brother for over a year in my home while he suffered from dementia due to brain cancer. I say this with all love and care but do NOT try to take care of his mother all day every day by yourself. It is unrelentingly difficult. I didn’t have my brother at night which is the only reason that I lasted as long as I did. Having someone come in weekly would have been so helpful to his care. Regardless of any other part of your equation I would urge you to try and find a way for her to be in a more controlled environment. I know you mentioned financial difficulties for her but there is a good bit of help out there for older people if you can devote some (serious) time to seeking it out. I’m a font of information on this subject and would be happy to direct you to any help I can give. (I’m radishcake at gmail)
I have two close friends who are child free by choice and I know how hard it’s been on them socially. I’m constantly amazed at the things people think it’s OK to say to someone regarding their life choices.
No easy answers but I am wishing you both peace.
But there is a huge, critical difference between “maybe I’ll want kids someday, who knows” and “I want to want kids, for your sake.”
Lord, yes. And thank you.
I will add to the sales of this particular t-shirt: tried for a while to be like “…well, maybe…one…if we get a nanny…” but…no. My friends started having kids and instead of suddenly loving the idea once I saw the adorable babies up close, as is stereotypical (and as I think the guy in question maybe thought would happen) I was even more turned off by the stories of nausea and sleepless nights and oh God the bodily substances I can’t even.
My friends’ kids are cute, and more importantly, they’re my *friends’* kids, so I like ’em for the sake of said friends, but I don’t really get the ovary-punch some of my more maternally-inclined friends describe, and I like my life uncomplicated. That *might* change in five years, maybe, but…it’s not something a partner should hold his or her breath over, and it sounds like your guy, Teresa, is turning blueish.
Also, “…he felt it was a hasty decision on my part and that surely over time we could find neutral ground,” tweaks me a little. You both have incompatible opinions; why is he assuming that yours is the one that was hasty?
I have two children, and would happily have two or three more. My avowed child-free friends are some of the best influences in my girls’ lives. They add love and perspective and resources that my kids’ biological aunts and uncles just can’t, and they are so dear to us. I agree times 1000 that NOBODY should have a child because they feel pressured or because they feel like its something they should want and they will eventually love the baby. That way is the path to disaster. It is heartbreaking but you are not wrong to want what you want and you deserve–you BOTH–deserve a partner on the same page.
I wish you luck. That silence is gonna be a doozy, but it’s the right thing for him, for you, his mom, and all those future as-yet-unconceived what-ifs he wants to bring into the world
Um, there’s one point here that I’m not sure I agree with. Before going into it, though, an important point: I would never, ever condemn any person, male or female, for not wanting to have children. I’ve never even understood the whole “selfish” argument — to my mind, people who decide to have kids because it’s “the thing to do” are selfish, to a point, because that argument is all about them, not the kid(s).
BUT.
I don’t see that every single person every single where must absolutely be 100% sure that they want kids before having them. Please, please don’t everybody get their shorts in a knot thinking that I’m advocating irresponsibility; or that asinine, uber-patronizing “as soon as you have them, you’ll want them”. I hear you, J, about how much it sucks to see someone be told they weren’t wanted. But there is a very, very large grey area between “I am absolutely certain I want kids,” and “I’m going to tell my kid to his face that he wasn’t wanted.” It’s into this grey area that Theresa falls, so here’s my perspective: I think you have valid reasons for not wanting a child that stand on their own, and it is your right to feel that way. I also think that you see, as others have pointed out, that if you have a child with this particular man, you will be stuck with a lot of the Not Fun parts of parenthood.
That’s what may change. You may find another man someday, who wants children but who does not pressure you, who demonstrates that it would be a shared enterprise, who would take responsibility without your having to plead — and you might come off the fence on the side of having a child. This is what happened to me. I was very, very leery of having a child. What tipped the balance was realizing that my husband did not expect me to bear full responsibility, was fully prepared to take it on, including the possibility that it might not turn out well. Related point: does Mr. Theresa understand that there are no guarantees? That not every baby, no matter how careful and healthy the mom, has ten fingers and ten toes and normal, well-functioning organs? I’m sorry, I don’t meant to be gross, but it’s one of the salient points of the decision to have or not have: whether you can deal with whatever may happen. He doesn’t sound like he’d be able to handle a special-needs child.
Anyway, you may feel ambivalent with this man, and not so ambivalent with another. Or not; you may decide ultimately that you don’t want kids, and that’s fine. What bothers me is the phrase “losing him for nothing” if you end up having a child with someone else. I understand the idea, but deciding to have kids can be as much about the partner, or family, or other support network you’re with as your own personal beliefs, especially if you’re undecided. If you break up and then have a child with someone else, you won’t have lost him for nothing. You’ll have learned what you needed in order to have a child, which he could not provide, but (maybe) someone else could. Life circumstances change, and often there is no one right answer for all time.
I was at the park the other day with a friend of mine, watching our kids playing all happy and as adorable as can be, and talking about a friend of ours who is currently trying to get pregnant. Friend says, “I’m so excited for them.” I replied, “I feel like telling her not to do it!” We peed our pants laughing for about ten minutes but seriously, I love my kid. I wouldn’t change a thing about having her. I wanted her with all of my heart. But I can not under emphasize the mother load of work and emotional stress that comes with all the beauty and joy of having a child. Plus, when people picture having a child, they always picture a healthy, typical, smart kid. That’s not always the case. Trust yourself to know what you want. Value yourself enough to know you deserve it. I love the friends I have who didn’t have kids. They are unselfish, wonderful honorary aunts who’ll help me out at the drop of a hat. I’d never question someone who didn’t want kids. I know having one was the right choice for me but when it’s 10 minutes before the school bus is due and I’m struggling with getting us out the door and she’s tra-la-la-ing along with nary a care for the schedule? I remember my freedom and I blow it a kiss. Those were some good days indeed. :)
I get that this is really, really difficult and you don’t want to face up to the fact that maybe you and your boyfriend are going to split up, but you’re really trying to have it both ways here.
You’ve indirectly vocalised your feelings about not wanting kids and your boyfriend still wants to be with you, so you’re assuming that he’s coming around to your point of view. But he’s vocalising his feelings – that he definitely still wants to have children – and you’re doing everything you can to deny that that’s what he REALLY means. It’s a coping mechanism. He’s using it as a way of dealing with his mum being ill. He’s got a lot on his plate at the moment so you don’t want to push it. And really, fundamentally, IT’S NOT FAIR – when it comes right down to it, he should be the one to compromise on this because … you really, really don’t wanna!
No. He’s telling you loud and clear that he wants to have children. And you’re … trying to push that away and pretend it’s not really happening. I think that’s a really understandable thing to do, especially when there’s so much other stuff going on right now, but that’s why hard times are hard: things that you can ignore when things are good come up.
You *can* decide that now isn’t the right time to have this conversation and that you need to wait until things with his mum are more settled, as long as you think you can genuinely say that you don’t think you’ll regret that even if you do end up breaking up. But don’t assume that he doesn’t mean what he is telling you loud and clear, or that he’s going to change his mind. It’s not fair.
What bothers me is the phrase “losing him for nothing” if you end up having a child with someone else.
Sorry if that rankled. I hear you. I was trying to describe the visceral thought process that’s happening when you’re facing this kind of impasse and having to accept that it is in fact an impasse. No loss is really “for nothing” unless it’s in an O. Henry story, because we always learn from things and go on to new opportunities, etc., but at the time, during it, that’s how it can feel.
I’m sorry, Teresa, for your predicament. Like Jen said, this just sucks all around, everywhere you look. ::hug::
Also, I just want to say that everyone here is so nice and reasonable it makes me want there to be a Tomato Nation Town. (Where you all can eat my tomatoes and I’ll eat all your lima beans and there aren’t any political conventions or raisins.)
Cora, I totally respect what it is you are saying and I know people can jump into something and it can work out. And that is great. It really is. I think it’s just hitting me from what I have read in the above letter that there is a big difference between indifference towards having children and having previously vocalized the fact that you don’t want them and having a partner push you in that direction anyway because they think it’s an opinion you’ll grow out of. I think if it is something you are indifferent about, and you take the time to think about something and analyse it AWAY from your partners feelings and decide, “Hey, you know what? This IS the right person and I am down with this if it happens!” that is one thing. But that doesn’t strike me as what is happening here. This situation seems to me as an outside party to be fueled by mortality and stress and fear and those are not great circumstances to make serious, life-changing decisions. Also, the travel thing? If he is traveling and leaving you to take care of his poor mom (which, my sympathies go out to him for the situation with his mom – that is rough), then do you want to find yourself in a position where you are the primary caregiver of a child that you weren’t even sure you wanted in the first place? Because if he’s gone a lot, that responsibility is going to land on you and you alone.
Theresa, I don’t know you or your dude in person and I know that this whole deal must suck for you. The only thing I would ever truly say in a situation like this is be sure you are looking at it from ALL POSSIBLE ANGLES and come to a decision that will work for YOU and make you happy.
My feelings on the Conflict are well expressed by others, so I won’t belabor that point. But I feel like I should pipe up for another option in not-MIL’s care.
Early onset dementia and terminal disease? Rethink this. Can she qualify for medicaid? (If she’s losing her house, she probably can.) Medicaid will pay for in-patient nursing care. She will need it. You will need for her to have it. Yeah, the paperwork is a bear, but you only have to do it once. Having her at home is all the time, every day. Most hospitals have social workers, who are adept at navigating these kinds of options — they can provide you with the county Medicaid office contacts, give you a list of nursing facilities that accept medicaid, and all like that.
If you’re not hooked up with a hospital to access that service, do a google search on your state or county’s medicaid options. I can’t speak for every state, but when I was shopping for care for my mom, the county/state she lived in had an excellent website chock full of well-vetted resources.
I wish you good vibes.
What Amy and Agnes said.
I am someone who wants a (singular) child, as does my husband, although it is unclear whether we’ll be able to succeed at this whole reproduction deal. I’m going into this knowing that my husband will be less-than-awesome at dealing with all the vomit, poop, screaming, and runny noses, as well as the endless boundary testing that children do. He will be awesome at explaining interesting stuff about science and technology, teaching critical thinking, praising hard work and supporting their efforts, giving lots of cuddles and bedtime stories, and providing for our finances. I’m willing to take on more of the heavy lifting on the basic physical care front (and the endless repetitions of all the reasons why they’re not allowed to do various crazy things) during that infant/toddler/preschool period (a) because I knew who my husband was going into this, and (b) because I will be able to afford some childcare to give myself a break. If I didn’t want kids? NO WAY would I consider this division of labor.
Kind of on the flip side: before getting pregnant with me, my mother was “meh” about reproducing, but my father really, really wanted kids. Since she didn’t specifically, strongly NOT want kids, she went ahead and had her IUD removed and eventually got pregnant. My mother was a great mom, and a much better parent than my father (I love him, but he has some serious issues). But I think the key was that she didn’t have a strong desire to be child-free; she just didn’t feel like her life would be somehow incomplete if she never reproduced. In some ways, I think lacking that obsessive drive to produce a kid made it easier for her to be accepting of her children and to see us as our own people, rather than little reflections of her who existed to make her proud and fulfilled.
Anyway, if you feel pretty sure you really don’t want kids and would spend a lot of time deeply regretting your lost freedom in a way that no amount of gazing into your newborn’s eyes would ever compensate for, then DEFINITELY don’t have kids with this particular guy. Because it this is how he’s handling the sitch with his terminally-ill, cognitively-impaired mother, he is *not* going to provide the hands-on help with the grunt work that you are going to need to avoid feeling massively resentful (of him) and regretful (in general) after having a kid. What Cora says about the whole shared enterprise thing is important.
Lastly, please e-mail CJ from upthread. Dealing with dementia patients is a nightmare, even if you get lucky and they don’t suffer from paranoia or other unpleasant personality changes. Don’t take that burden on without real preparation and help.
Big hugs, and good luck.
I find myself wondering, separately from this issue, how much you want to be with this guy. I was getting a little…miffed, I guess, from the tone of the comments that made it seem like he was a total slacker who’s just leaving you with his dying mom and swanning off to his job while you slave away at the house. And then I realized that a lot of that tone comes from your original letter.
So I’m starting to think that the central question here is not whether you want to stay with him re: The Conflict, but whether you want to be with him long term at all. You didn’t write “Except for The Conflict, everything is roses”. You wrote “Except for The Conflict, here are all the other problems.” And I think you might need to square where you stand on your relationship minus the Child Question before you have this conversation with him.
In terms of the child question, I have to ask about this: “Despite this he often talked about our future as in buying a house together, marriage, travel, hopefully early retirement etc”. Did you participate in these discussions? If so, is it also possible that he thought your willingness to do so meant a more neutral position on your end? It seems like there’s been a lot of talking around the issue since it first come up, but no confronting it head on.
As a divorced father, I need to chime in that there is societal pressure on men too. [We both wanted children but had them sooner than we should have because she felt her biological clock was ticking. Admittedly, the children are the only thing left from that relationship that neither of us regret.] You may all commence throwing things at me now.
“Kids” versus “no kids” is an automatic relationship incompatability deal-breaker. That said, there is no particular reason why NOW is the moment for it to tear you two apart. I don’t see why either of you should be feeling that kind of time pressure. You two have already been together for 5 years with this conflict existing. Six months from now may be a much better time to deal with this issue than right now.
Others have given some pretty good advice about the practicalities of his mom’s situation so I’d just like to point out one thing – kids are a lot of work, they are a lot of sleepless nights and frustration and time commitment. (That I think mine have been worth it is obviously irrelevant – also, they still exhaust me even though I only take care of them 50% of the time now) Your boyfriend may acquire a new sense of how much kids would change his life after devoting time to caring for his mother. Of course, that only works if you take Sars’ advice and don’t allow him to just leave you holding down the fort while he travels for work.
If he expects you to shoulder most of the burden for taking care of HIS mother, he’s not going to be the kind of person with whom you’d want to share parenting even if you did want kids.
Theresa, do you think, genuinely, that there can be a future in this relationship without one or the other of you feeling resentful about having to make a sacrifice on this issue? It’s not a bad thing that you don’t see yourself being a parent, but I don’t see him wanting to bend on this issue (and is hoping that you’ll cave out of fear of losing him, or is in denial about how serious you are.)
Not Saying, I think that’s exactly the perfect role for a stepparent to take. Coming from a family with a stepmother that clearly is not maternal/ uncomfortable with kids, clearly didn’t WANT to interact with me any more than she absolutely had to for my dad’s sake… She’s no “stepmonster” and is a perfectly nice person that I can see now as an adult makes my dad happy and is a much better fit for him than my mother ever would have been, but 20 years later… I still feel like I relate to her like she’s a distant aunt or something. I think the challenge there as a stepparent (especially with younger kids) is how to handle the role of being a parent thrust upon you, and it sounds like you’re doing a good job with it.
Other Katherine: I suspect that my parents had the same dynamic as your parents. It’s interesting that my dad seems really to enjoy being around pre-schoolers and looks back fondly on me being that age, whereas my mom I think always had a preference for older kids and adolescents (which made sense as she taught junior high) but I suspect probably wasn’t as in love with having a baby or toddler around. With your husband, there may be certain stages of development of any future child of yours that “click” with him more than others.
Greetings from the letter writer – Thank you all for your supportive and insightful comments. I agree with whoever said they wish there was a Tomato Nation town etc full of such intelligent and compassionate folks!
There is an understandable lag time between submitting a Vine letter and having it posted, so I’m several months out from that initial letter. I actually did what Sars and other readers suggested. It seemed like the only way to move forward, however terrifying I feared the response would be. He ended up saying that he had been giving things a lot of thought and decided I meant more to him than any future children. If staying with me meant possibly not being a parent, he was ok with that and he was happy with just me.
Of course I was flooded with immediate relief but I tried not to let myself get sucked into that without finishing the discussion. We talked a lot, and he seems unwavering now that I am the priority. Should I feel differently down the road and he’s still in a place of considering parenthood, he’d be game, but he says the alternative would be amazing too as long as we’re together. (Lord help us if we both do 180-degree changes and end up in an opposite scenario! I don’t think even The Vine could help us then….) But he’s said every which way that he wants to be with me no matter what. End of story.
I’m trying not to be completely jaded and assume he’s blowing smoke up my ass, pardon the phrase. We’ve talked so much, and I truly believe he means what he’s saying. Whether or not he’ll change his mind down the road is anyone’s guess, but that’s life isn’t it? And relationships. At the end of the day when you’ve got all the facts and analyzed all you can, you’re left with just trusting your partner, if you can. I hope I’m right to trust him, but for now we’re in a better place. The air is clearer these days, for lack of a better description. It’s like a cloud has lifted off of us and we’re both happier.
I wondered how he could change his mind about such an enormous issue, and a holistic counselor I have seen thought children really weren’t the main issue in the first place. She felt he was in a panic about his mother and latched onto the kid thing as a way to control some aspect of his life that he felt he was losing his usual grip on. He had no control over her health and eventual decline but by God he could throw down an ultimatum about this! Now that things are calmer and his mom’s immediate crisis is over, the couselor thinks his current status of “yeah, they might be nice someday, but you’re more important, I’ll be thrilled either way” is closer to his true feelings. Who knows. It’s a nice theory, but I guess I’ll see how things play out.
As for his mother, she is living with us, he changed jobs so he won’t be away, and we have visiting nurses and aids a few times a week to help out. We’re managing – not ideal of course, but managing. Having her is like having a child in many ways, and he’s vocalized how much he misses our freedom/privacy and looks forward to the day when it will just be us again. (Assuming we’ve found a suitable living environment for her, not wishing her dead!)
So we’ll see what happens, but for now we’re doing ok. And thank you again for all your input. It’s such a sensitive subject and I appreciate how you all responded with such kindness and honesty and grace.
I only have time to post and run, so if this has been covered in the comments already, my apologies. I think the issue has three parts:
1. You don’t want kids. You don’t, you know you don’t and ‘doing it for him because you love him’ doesn’t apply here. You don’t create another human to please someone else. I think you get this.
2. You’re trying to take care of a dying woman, who is moving into your house. This is WAY too much for anyone to do alone – you guys need to hire some home care. If you can’t afford full time care, at least arrange respite care so you can have breaks.
3. Grief makes people crazy, but the thing is, while it’s happening, you don’t know you’re crazy. You’re still going to work, getting dressed, eating meals, driving your car, but you’re doing it all within a framework of crazy thought processes that you don’t recognize as crazy because you’re in the middle of them.
My mom died of cancer about 7 years ago and looking back I can’t believe some of the things I thought and did because you’re just not in your right mind when a parent is dying. You’re just not, and there is no cure for it but time.
I bring up the third point because I think you could justifiably ask BF to table the whole baby discussion for a set period of time while he processes grief. Even if you DID want a baby, deciding to get pregnant while in the throes of grief would be a bad idea because making any major decision during that time is just a bad idea (acid washed, three-legged and all). It’s complicated by the fact that you don’t know how long the grief process will last, but for sanity, maybe you could say “let’s revisit this in a year” and see where you are then.
I say table it because I don’t think you have all the info yet. He might come through his grief and realize he’s OK with not having a kid, if he was OK with it before. The downside is that if he persists in wanting a kid, then I think you really do need to walk away, because, see point 1. You don’t create a human to please someone else, or to keep them.
And, I’m sorry for you and your BF – you have a hard road ahead with his mom, and I wish you all the best in coping with that.
Theresa, thank God things worked out so well (relatively speaking) for you! Your man sounds like a real keeper and the fact that both of you could work so deeply on such a fraught issue speaks volumes for your character and values. Even though we’ve never met and are just words on a screen, I’m proud to know you.
Theresa,
So glad you are doing well. You are showing a LOT of grace under brutal circumstances. Wishing you much happiness.
Reading this is heartbreaking because you sound like a very loving, giving person who is committed to a partner who is also loving and giving but simply wants something very different from you. In my experience, people don’t change their minds about wanting children, and there is no judgment either way. Perhaps it’s a self-protective reflex, but I’m sensing a bit of animosity towards his beliefs in your letter. His wanting children is not a weakness or a reflection of how much he loves you, anymore than your feelings about not wanting children reflect something negative about your character or how much you love him. I think I know one couple who had disparate feelings about parenthood that found themselves with child and both seem to be very happy and fulfilled with their “baby makes three” existence. They, however, are the exception not the rule. My point is that this is one of those non-negotiables that, the vast majority of the time, doesn’t change with age.
In order to determine the future of this relationship, one of you will need to take a firm stance and stick with it, and, even then, the other might capitulate but harbor resentment. I would strongly recommend couples counseling to sort through this very complex issue. The timing is not ideal, but it sounds like the current circumstances of his mother’s illness have brought these issues to the forefront. Your mother-in-law’s prognosis is unclear (& in my experience the reality sadly tends towards less time rather than more), but her unfortunate illness will not change the core of your relationship, one way or the other (and I say this as someone who has dealt with terminal illness and disabilities more than once from an early age, fully aware of the emotional and practical turbulence inherent in these life changing events). So, as difficult, inconvenient, and painful as it may be, facing this with your partner head on will provide the answers you seek, and if the answer is to part ways, please know that this doesn’t mean anything is wrong or broken with either of you. Some desires are just embedded in our DNA and sacrificing those wants will eventually degrade your relationship, not enhance it.
The cruelest, hardest truth is that sometimes love is not enough. You both deserve to have what you want, and I really hope you can find a way to make it work & be perfectly contented, but, if not, I hope you always carry with you that it does not say anything about the validity of your choices, the depth of your love for each other, or the significance of your relationship. Best of luck to all of you. I hope you find your answers and contentment sooner rather than later.
Theresa, thanks for updating us! It’s great to hear that your guy stepped up to the plate and made some changes to ensure that he’s sharing in the responsibility for looking after his mom. SO glad to hear that you got visiting nurses set up to give you both a respite. If he’s not done much caretaking before, this is a great opportunity for him to get a sense of how overwhelming and never-ending the job can be. It’s more fun with kids, but it’s also a longer commitment. Your update makes me think that, if you do change your mind in 5 years time and decide to try for a kid, your guy will have the maturity to do what he needs to do so that you’re not left holding the bag of all the unpleasant chores.
I’m really pleased to hear that you are both still happy together and supporting each other. I think your counselor may well be right about what was going on with your guy. As Jennifer noted, grief can make you crazy.
Theresa, I’m so glad we heard back from you! And with one of the best outcomes. Jen S 1.0 always gets here first and says the best things so re-read her comment & know that I’m feeling the same. Big hugs and continued good wishes coming your way.
@Theresa: YAY!! Just unadulterated YAY!!, for a few minutes. As for whether he’s blowing smoke up your ass, well, you’ve covered all the bases with regard protecting yourself, you’re in counseling, you love and trust him for a reason, and you’re both working with the mom and extra help, etc. You’re a smart cookie.
@J: I agree with you. It’s a good point to make.
@rab01: why on earth would we throw things at you? Except old tomatoes, you know, for fun.
@Everybody: um, guys? This IS Tomato Nation Town. It’s just virtual, is all.
@Lisa: and in that spirit, guess what? I HAAAAAATE lima beans and I LOOOOOVE raisins. Come at me, bro! I gotta squishy Beefsteak here with your name on it!! ;)
Hi Teresa, glad things are working out. As a woman who has known she hasn’t wanted a baby since I new what a baby was it’s nice to hear it working out with a significant other. Lianne I might just have to come over to your site to vent some of the more obnoxious comments that have come my way. Anyway, just a thought, but if the boyfriend is still feeling a little bit of a tug on the heartstrings, has he thought of being a Big Brother? My sister did it for a while and it seemed like she got to do a lot of the fun, take the kid to the park and run around stuff, but not the heavy lifting part of child raising. And you wouldn’t have to be involved at all if you didn’t want to.
Don’t have a child if you don’t want to have children. Don’t do that to yourself and especially not to a child. Take Sars advice about the discussion with your boyfriend.
As far as taking care of his mother, don’t do it. My mother has dementia and taking care of a dementia patient is sooooooooooo difficult, unless you’ve done it before, you have no idea what you’re letting yourself in for. We are talking incontinence, wandering, weeping, anger, confusion, depression. Plus she is suffering from a terminal illness. She will not be sitting in a chair in the sunshine. It is a 24-hour a day job. There are assisted living/memory care places that will take her, there are options with Medicaid and there are specialists who can help you with placement. Yes, they charge a fee but it’s totally worth it. And most of these places are not the horror stories that we’ve all heard about. They are regulated & clean, the people who work there are trained in what they do. Your boyfriend may not want to place his mother there but believe me when I say the people there will take better care of her than you can, if only because there are more of them. We tried to keep my mother in her home with paid care-givers but she ran off the ones she didn’t like (dementia patients can be nasty and violent) and had taken to wandering at night when she was alone. We placed her in assisted living, which she hated at first, but soon realized she had the staff at her beck and call, the food was good, they had people who come in and sing or bring therapy dogs or show movies. She had more social activity there than she’d had in several years. Plus she was safe. I cannot tell you what a relief it is to know that she won’t be wandering lost somewhere.
Find the highest rated assisted living place in your area, call them and ask them if they have a Medicare/Medicaid specialist that they can refer to you. If they don’t have one, try the next assisted living place until you get the referral. You may be a very capable person but a terminally ill person with on-set dementia is too much for anyone to handle on their own. You will be exhausted by the end of the first week, if not sooner.
Your problem boils down to one word: Family.
This man wants to be your family. You want him to be your family. You disagree on who else can be in your family. He wants children in it, you do not. Family is a big deal. It’s messy, wonderful, imperfect, life-affirming, and sometimes just way too much. That said, this family isn’t going to work.
Neither one of you is wrong for what you want. There just isn’t any way to get it from each other. Somebody else should be taking care of his mother, because you are not her family, and it doesn’t look like you can be. I think you need to let him figure out how to get his mom taken care of…essentially, what would you do if I wasn’t here? is what he needs to understand.
I think it is much more fair to him to let him go so he can find that woman who wants a father for her children. It’s not you, and that is okay.
You also need to be free–to find that man who does not want you to make babies. Wouldn’t that feel lovely, to never again have The Conflict? To not have to justify your feelings about it? To get on with things that are so much more fun?
Whoops, did not see your update in the comments! If you’re happy, I’m happy.
@Theresa, thank you for the update. So often we read stories in advice columns and never know how things turned out. And this one has a happy ending, even better!
@Cora, I’m Pro-Raisan, Anti-Lima Bean! Hooray!
I don’t know if it’s scary or intriguing that I actually have been considering sending a Vine-letter about this very same issue this last week, because TN is made of awesome. And here I get the proof that I was right. Even if it makes me sad to read all this.
My circumstances are of course a bit different, but the main point is that we have a long term relationship, where one of the main problems (but not the only one) is This Conflict. I’m the one who really don’t want children and my partner thinks that it’s the main point with life. And there isn’t really any way to compromise, you either have children, or you don’t. I’d be prepared to do some kind of support parenting, but there are circumstances that probably would make it impossible and anyway it isn’t what my partner wants.
I’ve been thinking that “maybe it wouldn’t be so bad”, but my gut says “nonononoNO!!!” Every morning I wake up and think “thank god, I don’t have to deal with children today”. I like some kids I know, but they are exhausting, loud and messy. It’s not only babies either, having schoolkids, teenagers etc. seems to be just as exhausting in other ways. I really have no biological clock ticking at all, and I don’t think I’ll change, it’s been this way for over twenty years now.
It feels awful to deny my partner this, but I can’t really see my way to it either. I keep hoping that we’ll work it out, but your kind, but firm, comments make me cry. I do think you are right, you should really, really want it to be able to cope with it. And I recognize the need to compensate for denying my partner this, too, which makes for other problems. All in all, I see the condensed TN wisdom and it makes me very sad, because I realize that we probably don’t have a future :-(
Aw, Sad. I’m sorry you have to go through this. It’s the worst.
It doesn’t last forever, is the only thing I can tell you.
Poor @Sad, I don’t think it’s necessarily as black and white as that, but you have all my sympathy. I have been on every side of this issue for years and years now, first not wanting children, then being undecided, then deciding I did want them and not being able to get pregnant (I am pregnant now and very happy about it but it’s certainly only one way things could have worked out). I just wanted to add that although there is quite a strong social taboo concerning women not wanting children, there are plenty of people out there who are grappling with these issues and if we all discussed them a little more then maybe it would be easier. I have taken a lot of comfort over the years from finding friends, acquaintances and people on the internet who have for whatever reason chosen or found themselves on the alternative path. As painful as it all is, in the long run it must be better to give serious thought to what you really want and what you can live with than to do things because everyone else (it feels like) is doing them.
I was in a relationship with a man for six years, and we broke up because I didn’t want kids and he did. It ‘s a horrible emotional situation -you wonder what is wrong with you that you don’t want the one thing most people do. I now have the benefit of hindsight and can say that there is no right or wrong. You two are just incompatible in a major way, the same as if one of you wanted the other to convert religions, or it was long distance and no one wanted to move. Neither of you is wrong for your worldview. Please don ‘t fall in to the trap of thinking that because you have been together so long that you “deserve” to get married due to the time and effort you put in the relationship. Once my relationship was over I could see that my laser focus on the kid “issue ” blinded me to a lot of other incompatibilities we had as a couple. Both of us are much happier and content with other partners now -he is expecting his first child and I am thrilled for him.
I got stuck in the mindset that I would NEVER find anyone like my ex and would therefore be miserable and alone forever. And you know what? I didn’t find anyone like him, but I found someone as lovely with whom I had so much in common. Don ‘t despair ever finding someone with whom you are even more compatible. I know it ‘s nearly impossible to see now.