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The Vine: September 5, 2012

Submitted by on September 5, 2012 – 12:12 PM55 Comments

I’ve been with my boyfriend for 5 years, living together for 2+ of those years. Near the beginning of our relationship I broke up with him over a differing opinion on the topic of parenthood (I’ve never had any interest in children, he thinks it’s a waste of his life to not have one) but he felt it was a hasty decision on my part and that surely over time we could find neutral ground. I’m very willing to concede that my feelings on the topic may change (I’m 30, he’s 33) and I’m happy to keep an open mind.

In the last few years since that almost-breakup I still haven’t developed any biological clock to speak of. At times my feelings have been vocalized regarding some little cherub that reminds me why I feel the way I do, so I figured the boyfriend knew where I stood. Despite this he often talked about our future as in buying a house together, marriage, travel, hopefully early retirement etc. I assumed that because of his willingness to imagine a future with me when my feelings about being a mother were so clear, he had adopted a more neutral view on the topic.

A month or two ago he dropped a bombshell, saying essentially he doesn’t think he can ever marry me because of The Conflict but he has wanted to for several years now. I think the issue that brought all this to a head now is his mother. Isn’t it always? So Freudian. She has been recently diagnosed with a terminal illness (terminal meaning months at worst, few years at best) and the last month has been a flurry of hospitalizations, rehab centers, and acquiring financial and healthcare control over her. Unfortunately my boyfriend is the only one able to manage all this as his mother and father are divorced (not amicably) and his sibling lives across the country. His mother will be moving in with us shortly as she’s in a financial crisis besides her declining health and can no longer afford her apartment. On top of THAT, she has early-onset dementia (unrelated to her illness).

So now in addition to his old thoughts about life not being worth living without procreation, we can add wanting to immortalize his ill mother by passing on the family legacy in a child. I get it, I do. He’s using the notion of someday having a child as a way to ease the grieving process over his mother. I may not agree with his coping tactics, but they’re real feelings to him and if they bring him some comfort, who am I to take that away?

Now I’m in a complete tailspin about how to handle this situation and my emotions. I realize he’s in a horrible place mentally/emotionally and now isn’t the time to push him about any life decisions when his mother’s situation is more than enough to absorb 100% of his attention. I’m willing to put this issue on the proverbial back burner for a while until this crisis passes — though the timeline for that is uncertain at best. I guess my question is — is this Conflict always a deal-breaker for relationships? Realistically I know it’s unlikely for him to wake up tomorrow and announce how amazing a child-free existence could be, let us go forth and NOT multiply. But if he could just say that it’s something he thinks would enrich his life but ultimately we both need to feel comfortable with the decision, and if I never do despite my best efforts at keeping my heart and mind open to the idea, a life with me is what matters…that’s all I want. Is that unrealistic?

And what about the alternative — if I loved him enough, wouldn’t I do this for him? Oh trust me, I’ve mulled that one over many a time! I tend to think it’s a slightly bigger sacrifice for me to do something I don’t want that compromises my body/health/lifestyle and more importantly involves the happiness of a new person in the equation. If he said moving to Ecuador would make him happy, I wouldn’t be thrilled with that notion but it’s only my happiness at stake so I could make it work. But a child deserves to have two adoring parents, not one that wants him/her and another that is just trying to make the dad happy.

I guess I’m just bothered that I feel like I’m offering a lot to him — I can promise a lifetime of love, compassion, trust, comfort — and I’m extending that to his mother. And I can promise to keep my heart and mind open to the idea of someday having a family and should I eventually have that desire there’s no one I’d rather do that with than him. I’m taking on the lion’s share of his mother’s care as I’m the only one who does the housework and cooking and his job often takes him away for weeks at a time. I don’t mean it to be a contest to see who can compromise more for the other, but even with all that is it wrong to want a little commitment from him? At the end of the day I don’t think I’ll regret this upcoming challenging time with his mother — even if our relationship doesn’t survive she deserves some compassion and dignity, but I can’t help but long for a little something in return.

Mother Theresa I’m Not

Dear Theresa,

I have to tell you, I don’t like this situation with his mother at all. I don’t like it, I don’t like the way you talk about it…the whole thing reads to me as a too-tight, acid-washed pair of Bad Idea Jeans. I mean, you say you don’t mean it to be a contest, and I believe you, but it’s totally going to turn into that; it’s already turned into that. Well, not that exactly, but part of that — you’ve got it set up as a test, and if you pass it, if you don’t interrogate his Conflict and you stand by him at a difficult time and you take the best possible care of his ailing mother, he’ll marry you, even though you don’t want kids and he does.

And that’s the bottom line. You don’t want kids and he does. Yeah yeah, I know, you’ll keep an open mind, if you’d do it with anyone you’d do it with him…I believe you there, too, or at least that you believe those things when you say them. But there is a huge, critical difference between “maybe I’ll want kids someday, who knows” and “I want to want kids, for your sake.” I have, for good or ill, a wealth of experience in saying vague you-never-know-ish things to buy time with a man I loved who wanted children, hoping he would change his own mind, or get accustomed enough to the idea to drop the subject — and in that experience, and also the experience of living in the world, the one who is pretty sure s/he doesn’t want kids is much more likely to change sides than the one who is pretty sure s/he does.

So, yes, this is a deal-breaker for him. What’s more, you know this. He’s made this as clear as he can. His feelings will not change. Yours might; then again, they might not, and you might not have spoken honestly to yourself about what you really want here. And as a side note, that is okay. Societal expectations make it very very difficult for a woman to say, without qualifying it, that she doesn’t want children — even to herself. Others will call that decision selfish, or assume that something is cold and broken inside her, or patronize her about finding the right man and then she’ll change her mind, and sometimes she thinks the world is right, that there is something wrong with her, that the cost of this preference is too high, and she worries that there is no man (or woman) and no place for her if she can’t at least pretend she wants a child of her own. And by “she” of course I mean that I did this, and if this isn’t your experience and you really do think you might do it, maybe, someday, that’s great, and if you’re not there yet with saying point-blank that this is not for you ever amen and really feeling like that’s just one more option and doesn’t make you a bad person (because it doesn’t, obvs), that’s fine too. It’s super-fraught, is my point, and super-hard to accept that wanting different things when the wanted “thing” is a child is not going to allow the relationship to survive.

But: it isn’t. I’m sorry. No doubt the readers will have exceptions, but I have never seen this particular conflict resolve itself without a breakup. I know he’s having a hard time and I know you love him and I know you don’t want to cash out if you might change your mind about a baby and end up losing him for nothing — but it’s not fair to either of you to keep going like this, in my opinion. It’s not fair to him, in the event that you never do come around to the idea; mostly, it’s not fair to you, feeling like he’s only staying because he thinks you’ll change your mind, feeling like you’re kind of lying to keep him close, taking care of a broke and dying parent in your home in the hopes that that’ll change his mind. It won’t. One has nothing to do with the other.

You need to do two things. First, and immediately, you need to talk to him about hiring help for you with his mother. He needs to hire a day nurse at the least, a qualified professional who can handle his mom’s meds and understands her various conditions and challenges. This is too much to expect you to handle on your own.

And right after that, you need to tell him in so many words why he has to get you that help — that you feel like, by shouldering the entire burden yourself, you will be trying to prove to him that you are still Good Enough for him even if you don’t want a kid, and you have realized that that’s kind of fucked up and won’t solve the central problem. And then you sit there and don’t say anything and see what he says, which will be one of the more brutal periods of silence you will ever endure but hang in there with it because you gotta do it. And then the two of you have real talk about what’s going on here. “But he’s got so much other st–” Tough. He is proposing to go out of town on business and leave you, who he will not marry because of this issue, to care for his ailing mother by yourself but not altering his own work schedule. He can spend ten minutes getting real.

I’ll give him a partial pass on that, given the stress he’s under, but the situation as you describe it is almost untenable, and I don’t see it improving any. Be truthful with him now, today, and if you have to leave, forgive yourself and go. Your other choice is to hold your breath waiting for a question that never comes; or another one you can’t answer the way he wants; and resenting him till kingdom come. No good. Lance the boil.

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55 Comments »

  • Jacq says:

    Sad, stick to your guns: if you don’t want kids there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. In my opinion the only right time (and way) to have a child is when you really, REALLY feel miserable at the thought of not having one.

    For anybody out there who gets this ‘oh, you’ll change your mind’ nonsense from people who know them: stare those bastards down and don’t get into it with them.

    From what I have observed, The Conflict is a dealbreaker in many relationships – I’ve seen two marriages end over it. If you get married without ensuring that you’re on the same page about having kids/not having kids, you’re asking for trouble.

    I was totally oblivious about having kids when I was in my 20s, as was my husband. When I got to my early 30s I decided that I probably did want to have a baby (partially spurred on by my husband being diagnosed with MS – it sounds dumb, but the thought of not having a little piece of him running around was just too horrible to contemplate). It then took us four years to get pregnant, and some fertility treatment, and during that time I realised quite how important having a child was to me. He was still somewhat ambivalent, but happy to go along with it because I wanted it. As of today I’m 20 weeks pregnant with boy/girl twins and my husband is the world’s most excited and proud man. So long story short: if you’re dealing with ambivalence (in you or your partner), this can sometimes change. But decided ‘I really don’t want to be a parent’ feelings don’t tend to change (and nor should they be expected to).

  • Nikki says:

    The result that you want is impossible. You hope that he will stop wanting to have children. That is not going to happen. HE is also not going to go ahead and marry you hoping you’ll change your mind.

    No. Matter. What.

    These things are not going to happen… not with this guy. The fact that you’re doing this one-sided emotionally bartering in the hopes that his whole attitude will change is SUPER unrealistic AND really dangerous for your mental health. You have to start thinking about your situation differently.

    There are three real options:

    1. You stay, either because you want to ride it out and be with him as long as possible and/or because you might decide you want children.

    2. You leave, because you don’t want to get more attached and/or because you know you will not change your mind about children.

    3. You have a child with him because that’s what he wants.

    I know in your letter you discuss “why #3 is a bad idea,” and maybe it is, but maybe it’s not. It really depends on how much you love him, how long you’ve been together, and how serious he is about being involved in parenthood. I have a girlfriend whose been in a relationship for eight years, and she never wanted children (her boyfriend – now husband always did)… but she surprised me one day with a call that she was pregnant. They now have possibly the sweetest little 15 month old girl. The husband stays home and takes care of her and the mom works full time.

    A few months ago, I asked her why she had a baby, and she said “I knew it was important to him and if you know you’re going to spend the rest of your life with someone, you sometimes have to make them happy.”

    You think you won’t love your baby? You think your baby will not be happy if it doesn’t have two parents who are gung-ho about the pregnancy? Plenty of kids will say otherwise.

    Anyway, it’s your call, but stop pursuing the mythical situation where everything works out the way you want, and especially that you can somehow “earn” his willingness to give up fatherhood by doing other things for him.

  • Ang. says:

    My best friend just went through something similar. I have always known I didn’t want kids, and I found a man who didn’t, either, and we got married and that’s that. She’s had a harder time, unfortunately. Her long-term relationship just ended over this. And the thing was, she was up front about not ever wanting kids with him. She was very, very clear, from the beginning. He said he didn’t want them, either. Over the years, his family (very rural and traditional) pressured him, and he was influenced by them. Then his brother had a kid, and he said that he loved having kids around and that he would like to have one, but that he would rather have her. She tried to tell him and show him how much is involved in having and raising a kid, but he apparently thought that was her opening the discussion, so he began to make promises about how he would do all the work, even though she kept reiterating that this was not open for discussion and never was. And then he came back at her with the “Well, I always thought you’d change your mind” bit, and said that babies made him happy or some such shit.

    tl;dr version: don’t get involved with immature men who don’t know what they want or with men who lie and say what they think you want to hear now because they are secretly counting on you to change your mind.

    This happened months ago, and I still think I would slap him–hard–if I ever saw him again because the “I know what you said over and over but I thought you didn’t really know your own mind and that you would come around to the ‘right’ way of thinking” is so incredibly insulting. I feel a small fraction of her pain because I care about her so much and because I know that could have been me if I hadn’t found my childfree man already. So Theresa, please, please make sure he isn’t lying to you or counting on you to change your mind or something like that. You say you believe him, but don’t let your guard down yet.

  • Abigail says:

    So much wisdom here, so not much to add except to resond to Ang:

    We all get passionate in defense of our friends, but I think perhaps you’ve drunk a bit of the child-free cray here. His thinking on the issue of children evolved. He felt one way, then he felt another. Perhaps he was influenced by his family, but babies making one happy is just as valid as babies making one want to scream and run away. Sounds like your friend’s bf knows his mind quite well. He wants children, and he wants a partner that wants children. It’s painful, but it’s not immature. Quite the opposite.

  • Ang. says:

    That’s fine, Abigail, except that you missed the part about how my friend’s ex said he secretly always thought she would change her mind and that he just *said* he didn’t want kids before. Also, your comment about “drinking the child free cray” is insulting and inappropriate, given that I was sharing this story to help the OP. In any case, I hope that this isn’t what is going on with the OP’s boyfriend, and the reason I shared that story was to help her watch out for the kind of manipulation that hurt my friend (not to open the door for feedback like yours).

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